MF 165 knocking
- Thread starter DaButcher
- Start date
- Views: 66387
-
- Tags
- massey ferguson 165
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'day DaButcher.
An engine overhaul kit will cost about 1000 dollars if the crankshaft is measured and is within limits it should cost about 500 dollars to regrind and supply a set of bearings then you have a new engine
Still a good cheap tractor.
Regards.
Hutch.
An engine overhaul kit will cost about 1000 dollars if the crankshaft is measured and is within limits it should cost about 500 dollars to regrind and supply a set of bearings then you have a new engine
Still a good cheap tractor.
Regards.
Hutch.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
Hutch, did the Perkins factory mark the rod cap 1 2 3 4? These are marked and at least one also has a hand scribed mark, indicating a previous overhaul. Also had some bolt and nuts missing are miss-matched. I'm kinda wondering if there has been ongoing issues with this engine. I appreciate any insight.
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'day DaButcher .
Yes perkins Match mark the Connecting rod bearings and the Main bearings.
This ensures ,one the weight of each rod is correct and of course the Roundness of the Rod /Crankshaft Journals.
Just a mention ,if you decide to rebuild the engine buy where possible VITON Seals and where applicable "O" rings they last much longer.
These parts are available either aftermarket or original upgrade .
If need be I can provide the engine bolt torque values Tappet clearance etc.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
Yes perkins Match mark the Connecting rod bearings and the Main bearings.
This ensures ,one the weight of each rod is correct and of course the Roundness of the Rod /Crankshaft Journals.
Just a mention ,if you decide to rebuild the engine buy where possible VITON Seals and where applicable "O" rings they last much longer.
These parts are available either aftermarket or original upgrade .
If need be I can provide the engine bolt torque values Tappet clearance etc.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
Salvage crank (20/30 bearings) $400us with mine for trade
Estimate to repair mine $175 to $350 plus $65 if they have to weld it
Injector reman $60 ea, Pump reman $350 minimum up to lots more if more than basic parts needed.
Overhaul kit, water pump and valve job in the $1300 range
I'll be lookin at the clutch soon, haven't priced that yet. Hopin it's OK
Probably going to rebuild and stay with this tractor. The $5,000 or so I'll have invested before anything cosmetic should be worth the time and effort compared to anything else I could get for that same amount of money.
Estimate to repair mine $175 to $350 plus $65 if they have to weld it
Injector reman $60 ea, Pump reman $350 minimum up to lots more if more than basic parts needed.
Overhaul kit, water pump and valve job in the $1300 range
I'll be lookin at the clutch soon, haven't priced that yet. Hopin it's OK
Probably going to rebuild and stay with this tractor. The $5,000 or so I'll have invested before anything cosmetic should be worth the time and effort compared to anything else I could get for that same amount of money.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
more progress, now have to borrow a engine stand
Is it OK to sandblast the engine? Would it be better after it's assembled or blast and wash thoroughly while torn down? Is there any other way besides sand blasting to make sure paint will stick?
Is it OK to sandblast the engine? Would it be better after it's assembled or blast and wash thoroughly while torn down? Is there any other way besides sand blasting to make sure paint will stick?
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'day DaButcher.
Sandblasting!!!If you really feel you need to sandblast the engine I would completely strip it naked ,this is a lot of work and I tend to think that sandblasting no matter how much you clean the engine afterwards there is always the possibility that some of the Blasting material is left hidden in some corner with the potential to destroy the work you are about to do,it is like the garnet or whatever is used is Blasted INTO the cast and no matter what you do there is still some left behind like if after blasting and cleaning get a wire brush and give the engine a good going over and you will find there is still abrasive coming out.
My choice would be to use chemicals to strip the block naked even take it to an engine shop and have the whole thing cleaned in a Robowash, this would be my preference rather than risk the sandblasting approach .
Engine Stand!!.
If you have the opportunity to borrow say four or five wooden pallets ,stack them where you are going to work on the engine and get a piece of half inch plywood and make a table,Pallet top and you have a good solid work table Dont forget to set the table up under a beam then you can use a chain block to lift and turn the engine as required.
Once the block has been cleaned you can then look at rebuilding remove all cylinder head studs making sure you record what position they were in ,they are all different lengths, then set the engine block upside down ,install the crankshaft first ,then all the timing gears making sure the timing marks match up,when you have completely installed the crankshaft oil pump and timing gears turn the engine right way up using 4x2 timber across the bottom of the block to steady it and keep it level and stable.
Install the new liners making sure the cylinder bores are clean and free of nicks etc I usually put the liners in the freezer for an hour and before I fit them to the block coat the surface with brake fluid just enough to lubricate the block Bores then one at a time remove the liner from the freezer wrap it in a cloth to keep it cool and with a block of 3/4" thick teflon and a four pound hammer at the ready install the liner as far as you can by hand be as quick as you can but carefull then lay the teflon block flat on the top of the liner tap it in with the hammer try not to let the hammer Bounce ,hold it short like just behind the head so it is not so much a blow but a push dont stop till it is all the way in otherwise the liner will get bogged and it wont move ,when all liners are in turn the engine on its right hand side and using some short pieces of timber to LEVEL the block then you are ready to install the piston ,rod assemblies be careful Take your time .
Thats all for now.
Regards.
Hutch.
Sandblasting!!!If you really feel you need to sandblast the engine I would completely strip it naked ,this is a lot of work and I tend to think that sandblasting no matter how much you clean the engine afterwards there is always the possibility that some of the Blasting material is left hidden in some corner with the potential to destroy the work you are about to do,it is like the garnet or whatever is used is Blasted INTO the cast and no matter what you do there is still some left behind like if after blasting and cleaning get a wire brush and give the engine a good going over and you will find there is still abrasive coming out.
My choice would be to use chemicals to strip the block naked even take it to an engine shop and have the whole thing cleaned in a Robowash, this would be my preference rather than risk the sandblasting approach .
Engine Stand!!.
If you have the opportunity to borrow say four or five wooden pallets ,stack them where you are going to work on the engine and get a piece of half inch plywood and make a table,Pallet top and you have a good solid work table Dont forget to set the table up under a beam then you can use a chain block to lift and turn the engine as required.
Once the block has been cleaned you can then look at rebuilding remove all cylinder head studs making sure you record what position they were in ,they are all different lengths, then set the engine block upside down ,install the crankshaft first ,then all the timing gears making sure the timing marks match up,when you have completely installed the crankshaft oil pump and timing gears turn the engine right way up using 4x2 timber across the bottom of the block to steady it and keep it level and stable.
Install the new liners making sure the cylinder bores are clean and free of nicks etc I usually put the liners in the freezer for an hour and before I fit them to the block coat the surface with brake fluid just enough to lubricate the block Bores then one at a time remove the liner from the freezer wrap it in a cloth to keep it cool and with a block of 3/4" thick teflon and a four pound hammer at the ready install the liner as far as you can by hand be as quick as you can but carefull then lay the teflon block flat on the top of the liner tap it in with the hammer try not to let the hammer Bounce ,hold it short like just behind the head so it is not so much a blow but a push dont stop till it is all the way in otherwise the liner will get bogged and it wont move ,when all liners are in turn the engine on its right hand side and using some short pieces of timber to LEVEL the block then you are ready to install the piston ,rod assemblies be careful Take your time .
Thats all for now.
Regards.
Hutch.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
OK, I'll pass on the engine sandblasting to keep up the odds of a long term successful overhaul. Have been offered a engine stand by a friend so that will make my life easier for dis-assembly and assembly. Good advise on the liners, just have to get them our first!
As always, appreciate your insight Hutch
As always, appreciate your insight Hutch
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'day DaButcher .
To remove the liners ,they are cast radius grind a big screwdriver that is curve one side of the Flat then CAREFULLY Tap it down between the engine block and the liner making sure the CURVED SIDE IS AGAINST THE BLOCK SO THAT YOU DON,T MARK THE BLOCK Take your time ,you will find the liner will crack as you go so wear safety glasses and keep others away,when you get about 3/4 way down the liner will become loose in the block ,put on a welders glove and put your hand down inside the bore and when your hand is near the bottom make a fist and you will find the liner will come out.
When all the liners are out ,using medium grit emery tape clean up the cylinder bores, making sure there are no marks or high spots that could lock the new liners when putting them in.
This done either chemical clean or robowash the complete block this will ensure everything is nice and clean.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
To remove the liners ,they are cast radius grind a big screwdriver that is curve one side of the Flat then CAREFULLY Tap it down between the engine block and the liner making sure the CURVED SIDE IS AGAINST THE BLOCK SO THAT YOU DON,T MARK THE BLOCK Take your time ,you will find the liner will crack as you go so wear safety glasses and keep others away,when you get about 3/4 way down the liner will become loose in the block ,put on a welders glove and put your hand down inside the bore and when your hand is near the bottom make a fist and you will find the liner will come out.
When all the liners are out ,using medium grit emery tape clean up the cylinder bores, making sure there are no marks or high spots that could lock the new liners when putting them in.
This done either chemical clean or robowash the complete block this will ensure everything is nice and clean.
Happy Days.
Hutch.
The kid
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 4,113
- Location
- Middle Tennessee
- Tractor
- 1965 135 gasser, 1967 135 diesel
You can probably use the report button (bottom left triangle) and state where to move it in the message thread.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
This project is back on my to do list. Bought a standard crank and have it sent off for polishing or turning if needed. Also have a master overhaul kit, oil pump and other goodies coming from the local MF dealer. If anyone is interested I will post progress pics.
Bird
Rest in Peace
It's done.
DJ54
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2009
- Messages
- 4,629
- Location
- Carroll, Ohio
- Tractor
- IH Farmall 656 gas/ IH 240 Utility/ 2, Super C Farmalls/ 2, Farmall A's/ Farmall BN/McCormick-Deering OS-6/McCormick-Deering O-4/ '36 Farmall F-12/ 480 Case hoe. '65 Ford 2000 3 cyl., 4 spd. w/3 spd Aux. Trans
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
Tear down continues
The filter caught some of the spun rod bearing pieces
This is a good reference pic for where the different length studs go
Removing head studs
While maybe not the ideal method it works (thanks for the tip shona13). I did find minor damage from sometime in the last forty years of someone else doing this same job
Somebody made a mess
Degreasing time
Got some goodies
Primed and block painted, finally time to turn the corner and start assembly
The Crankshaft I bought should be ready soon from the machine shop, for now I'll continue to clean and prep parts
The filter caught some of the spun rod bearing pieces
This is a good reference pic for where the different length studs go
Removing head studs
While maybe not the ideal method it works (thanks for the tip shona13). I did find minor damage from sometime in the last forty years of someone else doing this same job
Somebody made a mess
Degreasing time
Got some goodies
Primed and block painted, finally time to turn the corner and start assembly
The Crankshaft I bought should be ready soon from the machine shop, for now I'll continue to clean and prep parts
murphy1244
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2011
- Messages
- 19,512
- Location
- Ohio
- Tractor
- Kubota 1120 RTV Kioti DK-40, MF-135, Ventrac 4500Y
I just love simple green.
shona13
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2012
- Messages
- 367
- Tractor
- Massey Ferguson 148 .Chamberlain Super 70. Caterpillar D4. Chamberlain 354 FEL.Toro 268 rideon kubota L2002fel
G'day Da Butcher.
Good to hear from you again.
I,d say your approach to the job is spot on,everything nice and clean,excellent pictures and I am sure the members would like to see MORE, Please.
Keep up the good work.
Regards.
Hutch.
Good to hear from you again.
I,d say your approach to the job is spot on,everything nice and clean,excellent pictures and I am sure the members would like to see MORE, Please.
Keep up the good work.
Regards.
Hutch.
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
Ran into my first problem. The sleeves that came out have a thick flange that goes into the counter bore of the block and the new ones are thin flange. Called the parts guy and his conclusion is I have a early block with a later direct injection head. He is going to order the indirect rebuild kid and swap it out for me. I thought from early on something wasn't adding up about the engine because this appears to be a 1972 model tractor and by then the engine should not have the rope rear main seal yet it does. Question: Does this combination of head a block work good or create monsters? Previous owner ran it for a few years like this, but did have #1 piston and sleeve replaced.
I'll get a better pic later
I'll get a better pic later
OP
DaButcher
Silver Member
Ditto........I did use several products including Gunk degreaser followed by the Simple Green the lots of pressure washing
