Millermatic 211, 212 or 252

[ericher69]

Looking to replace my Lincoln SP170-T with something with a bit more umph and aluminum capable.

Was looking at the Millermatic 211 with spool.

Besides increased duty cycle any advantage to 212?

Would really like the 252 but cannot justify 3x the price for my home use needs.

May build a small utility trailer out of aluminum and some implements for b2920.

I also own an AC/DC Canox sparkler 225/150 stick

Any and all advice welcome

 

[Scooby074]

How serious are you about aluminum?

I suggest the 252 without the gun at first, then add the gun later (ebay or other source).

FYI the 212 and 252 both can use the 30a spoolgun which is a better unit than what the 211 and under use. Also the 30a is a relatively common model so there are more available on the used market.

Aluminum really soaks up the juice so a bigger welder is better. Dont forget that if you want to do aluminum you'll also need a lease on a bottle of 100% argon.

 

[ericher69]

I enjoy working with aluminum and probably would more if I had a machine capable of it.

Don't get me wrong the 252 looks awesome but I am having a hard time justifying it.

I guess I could sell the Lincoln mig and stick to bump up the funds I have saved up.

After looking at this

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00218

The specs say 3/8 aluminum same as the 211?

Steel is 1/2" rated

I do not do production work so I have no issue letting the machine breathe due to a lower duty cycle.

 

[Scooby074]

I enjoy working with aluminum and probably would more if I had a machine capable of it.

Don't get me wrong the 252 looks awesome but I am having a hard time justifying it.

I guess I could sell the Lincoln mig and stick to bump up the funds I have saved up.

After looking at this

Millermatic 252 - MIG Wire Welder - Miller Welding

The specs say 3/8 aluminum same as the 211?

Steel is 1/2" rated

I do not do production work so I have no issue letting the machine breathe due to a lower duty cycle.

The 3/8 spec is with the 200 spoolgun. Thats a pretty light duty gun. The 30a is much heavier duty and is "rated" for 1/2" on the 252. THe 252 can also handle a push pull gun.

 

[ericher69]

Ok

What are the advantages of the push/pull gun?

 

[Scooby074]

better wire feeding.
much more compact profile so it can be used in tighter places.

 

[CNC Dan]

Ok

What are the advantages of the push/pull gun?

Works on aluminum wire like a spool gun, but the spool of wire is in the machine. The standard drive rolls push the wire into the gun lead, and a second set of drive rolls at the end of the gun pulls the wire. Thus push/pull gun.

 

[Ed of all trades]

I am told that the bigger machines can use a larger aluminum wire and not have to have the push pull. From video on Miller Welds.

 

[Scooby074]

I am told that the bigger machines can use a larger aluminum wire and not have to have the push pull. From video on Miller Welds.

It CAN be done, you have to swap out the liner to teflon, but not that many have luck. Welding aluminum sucks (for me) at the best of times, why make it harder?

Some take a long mig gun and cut it in half (make a 15' a 8') and use that for Al and have good luck. Problem with mig and aluminum is feeding with a push causing bunching up in the liner. The longer the push the worse it gets, thats why a push pull works so well, you can have a long lead because of the gun pulling the wire through the liner vs a pure push like a conventional mig welding steel. There are also heat expansion issues when welding aluminum that can cause issues.

 

[dfkrug]

Some take a long mig gun and cut it in half (make a 15' a 8')
and use that for Al and have good luck. Problem with mig and aluminum is feeding with a push
causing bunching up in the liner.

That's an interesting approach for us non-pros who can't justify the cost of a spool gun. I
never heard of a push-pull gun before this thread, too. I know a guy with an unused spool gun
for his Millermatic 210, but it seems that it won't fit my Hobart.

I have successfully run .035 Al wire thru my Hobart Ironman 210, but it will bunch up
now and then, which requires pulling out and tossing a bunch of wire each time.

A cut-down conventional gun/hose seems like an economical approach. I may look into that.

 

[Arc weld]

A 30A spool gun is better than the 200 but also costs about $500/600 more. Push/pull you're looking at big bucks! 212 has more duty cycle than the 211, doesn't need a cart and allows you to use the large spools of MIG wire. Welding aluminum you'd really appreciate the higher duty cycle. The larger spools can save you a lot of money if you start doing more welding. The 212 also uses the M 25 gun which is the same as used on the 252. Trying to run aluminum through a standard MIG gun, even with a teflon liner, is just going to be an exercise in frustration. It's the exact reason they make spool guns.

 

[ericher69]

Arc Weld;


I was tempted to try with my sp170-T and 5053. After using a 212 with the spool mate 200 gun and seeing how easily the wire bends or birdsnests (had removed my ground clamp to reposition) I decided that attempting AL with a standard whip would be a big waste of time.

So I either get the 211 fully equipped with the money I have saved up or wait much longer for the 252.

I enjoyed using the 212 but did not find it to be much of a leap if any from the 211 in performance.

 

[Bday]

Vote for a 252!

 

[OkieDave]

I had about the same choice, and I bought a 252. Buy once, cry once.

 

[ericher69]

I have a possibility of 2 used 252's maybe for next week. Gonna wait to see what kind of $$ they are asking and what kind of shape they are in.

 

[charlz]

The 211 doesn't seem like it is much of a jump from what you have today? For the price difference between the 212 and the 252 I would go with the 252. The 252 is rated the same as my older Miller Vintage and that has been a great all-around welder for making a few implements etc. Have you kept an eye on Craigslist or equivalent for your area? Might get a deal on an older but just as capable welder.

 

[Scooby074]

I had about the same choice, and I bought a 252. Buy once, cry once.

I got to cry 2 times before I bought my 252. Worse is I spent more than the equivalent cost of the 252 on those 2 welders whereas I could / should have just bought the 250 way back when.

Buy once, cry once. Is great advise when it comes to welders.

 

[ericher69]

The 211 doesn't seem like it is much of a jump from what you have today? For the price difference between the 212 and the 252 I would go with the 252. The 252 is rated the same as my older Miller Vintage and that has been a great all-around welder for making a few implements etc. Have you kept an eye on Craigslist or equivalent for your area? Might get a deal on an older but just as capable welder.

Besides spoolmate 100 compatible the 211 is rated at 3/8 like my sp170-t

Yup just missed out on a Lincoln powermig 255 by one day!

Anyway same guy is supposed to have a few 252's next week used; will see condition and price. We can probably work out a trade in value for my old Lincoln and Canox sparkler

 

[Bday]

Have you checked out Htp spool guns. They sell one for the miller machine. Quite a bit cheaper! Not trying to push anything, but miller! It's an option I'm considering. It's on sale now for a bit over $800. Just my thoughts! Htp has a good rep!

 

[ericher69]

Have you checked out Htp spool guns. They sell one for the miller machine. Quite a bit cheaper! Not trying to push anything, but miller! It's an option I'm considering. It's on sale now for a bit over $800. Just my thoughts! Htp has a good rep!

Will look into that option. Have seen a few video's with their products and seem very good

Came across this chart which clearly compares output on diff miller models

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

What would be a good price for a used 252 with stock mig gun and a 3 month warranty?