Mower blade shape?

[sbakf]

Finally got my 20 acres of open fields smoothed out - a lot of tilling and disk work. Smooth enough that they can now be cut easily (but slowly) with my BX2660 with 60" MMM. Just ordered a Landpride FDR3590 Grooming Mower to fit behind my L5740. Considered a wide flex mower (e.g., AFM4211), but high price and wide turning radius were a turn-off. With the FDR3590, I have a choice of 3 cutting blades. They are: (1) Low Lift - "Highly recommended in sandy soils ...", (2) Medium Lift - "Medium suction for lifting grass. Requires less HP than high lift." and (3) High Lift - "Greatest suction for lifting grass before cutting. Can take higher HP in tall dense grass."

Fields are now growing primarily weeds with some mixed (past) planted grasses (e.g., bahia, rye, bermuda, fescue, etc.). Not sure what I might reseed them with, but perhaps a centipede with a touch of dutch clover.

Would appreciate any thoughts you have on best mower blade selection. Your experience would be welcomed. I'm leaning toward the high lift to raise up what the tractor wheels put down. Thoughts on grass to plant would also be helpful. I'm building a family estate (retreat) - not a farm.

 

[clemsonfor]

Id use the medium lift just for the shear fact that they require less lift. It wont be that big of a deal.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Finally got my 20 acres of open fields smoothed out - a lot of tilling and disk work. Smooth enough that they can now be cut easily (but slowly) with my BX2660 with 60" MMM. Just ordered a Landpride FDR3590 Grooming Mower to fit behind my L5740. Considered a wide flex mower (e.g., AFM4211), but high price and wide turning radius were a turn-off. With the FDR3590, I have a choice of 3 cutting blades. They are: (1) Low Lift - "Highly recommended in sandy soils ...", (2) Medium Lift - "Medium suction for lifting grass. Requires less HP than high lift." and (3) High Lift - "Greatest suction for lifting grass before cutting. Can take higher HP in tall dense grass."

Fields are now growing primarily weeds with some mixed (past) planted grasses (e.g., bahia, rye, bermuda, fescue, etc.). Not sure what I might reseed them with, but perhaps a centipede with a touch of dutch clover.

Would appreciate any thoughts you have on best mower blade selection. Your experience would be welcomed. I'm leaning toward the high lift to raise up what the tractor wheels put down. Thoughts on grass to plant would also be helpful. I'm building a family estate (retreat) - not a farm.

Hi lift blades blades will soak up a few hp in heavy grass. They shine in grass that is maintained and cut often. You get a better quality of cut if all the stars are aligned. As mentioned, avoid if you have sandy soil. Along with sand, hi lift blades will pick up small rocks.

"low lift" avoids those pitfalls at the cost of a cut that's not quite so good in ideal conditions, but way ahead of the game if the grass needed cutting 2 weeks ago and you're just now getting to it.

Medium is just that, and a compromise of sorts. OK at most things, not brilliant at anything, and the best choice if you have a wide variety of conditions to deal with.

 

[leonz]

The best mower is a flailmower as the entire width of the
mower is cutting at a high speed of rotation and the
flailmower with its Y blades has a much greater amount
of cutting edge than any brush mower.

The flailmower will create huge amounts of suction
under the mowing hood as the Y blades become
airfoils and create huge suction which improves slicing
which is done at a very high rotation speed of
the flail mower rotor.


If it were me I would cancel the order and buy a
flail mower from Ken Sweet here on the forum
for your larger Kubota as Ken Sweet is a
forum sponsor in good standing.

As for what you should plant you want a very
low maintenance and weed free plant and that
is Sainfoin which was developed in Russia
hundreds of years ago.


The nice thing about Sainfoin is it requires nearly
zero care and is prolific and you wont have to mow
it that often or at all during the year unless
you are harvesting it for forage and you can knock
it down when its frost killed if you want to.

 

[whistlepig]

High lift blades suck up the dirt and dust too! Nothing like a 95 degree day with a good layer of sweat and high lifty blades depositing dust at the rate of a 1/4" an hour.

 

[LD1]

Some love 'em, some hate 'em, but I personally like gator blades.

They are more of a medium lift blade, but they do chop the stuff up much finer if you get behind on mowing. And they turn leaves in the fall into dust.

 

[sbakf]

Medium is just that, and a compromise of sorts. OK at most things, not brilliant at anything, and the best choice if you have a wide variety of conditions to deal with.

Medium appears to be the preferred choice - not perfect, but .....

Not much dust (sand) in my fields, but my turnarounds are on my roads. One might describe their surface makeup now as 1"-2" of layered talcum powder - need some rain bad. Visibility goes to near zero when I get near with one of my cutters (6' rotary or 60" MMM).

After tilling and disking, my wife and I probably hand picked a few tons of rocks from our fields. These, lemon to grapefruit size, filled up a few small sinkholes on our property. What's left are mostly walnut to pecan size and buried at surface level amongst the grass (weeds). The roads are different. Rocks of various sizes continue to expose themselves. Just how strong is the vacuum with the high lift blades? Thinking I'll be setting the cutting height at 4"-5". Still, don't want to be sucking rocks to my cutting edges.

Some love 'em, some hate 'em, but I personally like gator blades.

Looked these up on the web. They look very much like the forth blade option offer by LandPride for its mowing decks - their "Mulching" blade. Wonder if they're the same? The particular mower deck I order, however, is a rear discharge platform and a mulching blade probably wouldn't perform as expected.

The best mower is a flailmower

After reading many good things about flail mowers on this site, I often wished that I had bought one instead of my rotary ('bushhog') cutter. With regard to my current need, I chose the grooming mower primarily because: (1) I've seen flail cutters in action along our county roads and although they present good cuts, I'm wanting something near a fairway cut - remember, estate not farm; and (2) with a tip speed over 18,000 fpm and linked to the back of my L5740, I'm expecting this combination to rival what one gets with a zero turn mower - both in quality and ground speed. Don't think a flail would keep up with a zero turn.

As for what you should plant you want a very low maintenance and weed free plant and that is Sainfoin

Looked up Sainfoin on the web. Impressive plant, but it's not what I'm looking for. I'm wanting a golf course presentation (with surrounding 3-rail white fencing), from a long lived, wide blade, deep rooted turf grass that grows thick (chokes weeds out), stays green year round and is drought tolerant. Is there such a grass? Can I get close? Most farms around here are growing either weeds, bahia or bermuda - don't care for any of them.

 

[smstonypoint]

I'm wanting a golf course presentation (with surrounding 3-rail white fencing), from a long lived, wide blade, deep rooted turf grass that grows thick (chokes weeds out), stays green year round and is drought tolerant. Is there such a grass? Can I get close? Most farms around here are growing either weeds, bahia or bermuda - don't care for any of them.

I'm not aware of a turf that would fit the bill for central Alabama.

What do you have against bermudagrass? It doesn't have a wide blade and is not shade tolerant, but grows thick, is relatively drought tolerant, and can be overseeded with annual ryegrass in the fall for a year-round (or nearly so) green turf.

Steve

Edit -- Your best bet for obtaining reliable info about the turf alternatives in your area is to visit your local Cooperative Extension office.

 

[brandoro]

I have a flail mower and a rear mount (3Point) finish mower. I thought the flail might replace the finish mower but for me not the case. The flail is great shredding brush, will cut grass but leaves an odd looking finish. The grass looks like its been combed. The rear finish mower makes a nice looking job and is easier to pull. It's on tires instead of a steel roller.
I have the medium blades on the RFM and like them. I don't have much really heavy grass and have a couple of light sandy patches. The medium lift blades work well enough across the board in my yard.

 

[sbakf]

What do you have against bermudagrass? It doesn't have a wide blade and is not shade tolerant, but grows thick, is relatively drought tolerant, and can be overseeded with annual ryegrass in the fall for a year-round (or nearly so) green turf.

Having spent time at VA Tech and Clemson, understand your mention of bermudagrass. I don't have a major dislike of it, just don't have a preference for it. Stands around here look good from a distance, but appear rather thin up close. Sure it has something to do with poor soil maintenance (e.g., pH, P & K levels, etc.). Being that I'm getting a bit lazy in my old age, really don't want a grass as sensitive as bermuda. Besides, my 20 Ac of open space is not one block of open field. It's dispersed in semi-segregated rolling sections surrounded by tall trees. As a consequence, many of the fields are shadowed early morning and late afternoon. Thinking bermuda just wouldn't do well around the edges. Additionally, I'm wanting to overseed my fields, not sure bermuda would germinate well under such conditions. My fields are now showing good growth (weeds and mixed pasture grasses), but the soil was left loose (unpacked) after light disking. I left it so to facilitate (rain) water retention and to minimize erosion on the hilly sections.

How about Argentine Bahiagrass - any experience or thoughts? It's a wide blade grass, at least as shown in photos.

Steve


Edit -- Your best bet for obtaining reliable info about the turf alternatives in your area is to visit your local Cooperative Extension office.

I've done this. Their suggestions were either bermuda or bahia - perhaps fescue.

 

[jimgerken]

Whatever the goal is, a plan to have to mow 20 acres of grass sounds like the wrong direction to me.
Native prairie of some kind, grazing animals, trees possibly, all these are low energy input ideas, with environmental responsibility. Mowing is a luxury cosmetic solution, and 20 acres is extreme. My opinion, no offense intended to you, maybe you have way more money and time than I can imagine.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've got 2 mowers that are used to cut grass around the home place. One is a JD260, the other is a JD265 (One gear, one hydrostat) BOTH have identical 48" decks. The 260 has a good set of OEM Deere blades (medium lift) The 265 has gator blades, bend creating lift appears to be very much the same as the Deere blades.

That said, the Gator Blades show NO....NONE....ZERO....additional mulching capabilities. The ONLY difference I can see is they're a higher quality of steel (harder????) and hold an edge MUCH better in the same conditions.

Yes, I plan on staying with Gator Blades, but it is NOT because of their "mulching abilities" (which I find to be almost non-existent)

 

[LD1]

I've got 2 mowers that are used to cut grass around the home place. One is a JD260, the other is a JD265 (One gear, one hydrostat) BOTH have identical 48" decks. The 260 has a good set of OEM Deere blades (medium lift) The 265 has gator blades, bend creating lift appears to be very much the same as the Deere blades.

That said, the Gator Blades show NO....NONE....ZERO....additional mulching capabilities. The ONLY difference I can see is they're a higher quality of steel (harder????) and hold an edge MUCH better in the same conditions.

Yes, I plan on staying with Gator Blades, but it is NOT because of their "mulching abilities" (which I find to be almost non-existent)

Thats odd, because I notice a prety good difference in mulching. ESPECIALL when the leaves fall. I have ran them on two mowers now, a JD261 3PH mower, and My SCAG 61" ZTR.

Are you sure you have TRUE gator blades and not the knockoffs. The knockoffs have the fins twisted the opposite direction and throws grass away from the blades after it is cut. The real gators have the fins turned so that the grass is thrown back toward the center of the blade so it can be chopped up again.

 

[leonz]

The flail mowers used for road side verges and vegetation control have either the scoop knives or the hammer knives and that is why the cut is so rough on thin vegetation.

If you buy a finish mower flail mower with the high number knive count from Ken Sweet you will never use your rotaries again when you see how well the cut is and how healthy your sod will become.

A rotary mower, rotary cutter or rear mounted rotary finish mower tears the grass and brush rather than slicing it like the verticut method with a finish mower flail mower.

The Sainfoin seed would work well for you as it is much less expensive than
Zoysia seed for your property as you can have them planted with a sure stand grass seed drill and have a high germination rate rather than losing a lot of seed when using a broadcast spreader.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thats odd, because I notice a prety good difference in mulching. ESPECIALL when the leaves fall. I have ran them on two mowers now, a JD261 3PH mower, and My SCAG 61" ZTR.

Are you sure you have TRUE gator blades and not the knockoffs. The knockoffs have the fins twisted the opposite direction and throws grass away from the blades after it is cut. The real gators have the fins turned so that the grass is thrown back toward the center of the blade so it can be chopped up again.

I have "true" GATOR BLADE brand blades.....

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The flail mowers used for road side verges and vegetation control have either the scoop knives or the hammer knives and that is why the cut is so rough on thin vegetation.

If you buy a finish mower flail mower with the high number knive count from Ken Sweet you will never use your rotaries again when you see how well the cut is and how healthy your sod will become.

A rotary mower, rotary cutter or rear mounted rotary finish mower tears the grass and brush rather than slicing it like the verticut method with a finish mower flail mower.

The Sainfoin seed would work well for you as it is much less expensive than
Zoysia seed for your property as you can have them planted with a sure stand grass seed drill and have a high germination rate rather than losing a lot of seed when using a broadcast spreader.

The "healthiest" turf you'll ever run across is generally found on professional sports fields and golf courses. They mow with either bed knife mowers OR rotary mowers WITH SHARP BLADES. They tear grass LESS than other alternatives. (I'm a member @ Valhalla Golf Club, former site of 2 US Opens, Ryder Cup, and PGA SR Open, and also a member on their advisory board. BTDT with the golf course mowers) With a premier level golf course, money, time, and effort aren't even really considerations. It's all about what gives the best looking, most consistant playing surface. I've yet to see a fairway mower that's NOT a rotary cutter or an old fashioned bed knife mower.

I'm in the "industry" as far as mowing goes.....We've demo-ed flail mowers on several occasions. (inc. Alamo commercial grade at that!) Where they fall short is in VERY high use (hours) circumstances. They become quite "maintenance intensive" after a time (relative to rotary mowers) .

Flails are great in certain circumstances, but like anything, they aren't the answer for every situation.

 

[sbakf]

Whatever the goal is, a plan to have to mow 20 acres of grass sounds like the wrong direction to me.
Native prairie of some kind, grazing animals, trees possibly, all these are low energy input ideas, with environmental responsibility. Mowing is a luxury cosmetic solution, and 20 acres is extreme. My opinion, no offense intended to you, maybe you have way more money and time than I can imagine.

To each his own, I guess. Bought this acreage Jan. 2010 - after a lot of preliminary work, fields were covered with a mixture of tall grasses and some wildflowers. Pretty to look at in the wind, but loaded with little critters that attracted snakes, possum, raccoons and roaming coyotes. With 9 grandchildren and 5 dogs, was always a bit apprehensive to turn them loose on the property.

As mentioned, didn't buy property to farm and/or raise animals. Also have enough trees - 20 acres with walking trails and partially cleared park-like areas. I could have bought this property and sat on my front porch drinking cool ones, but at 64, might not survive the boredom for long.

Not at all concerned about the environmental impact of my diesel exhaust - I'm surrounded by hundreds of beef cattle and farmers growing hay to feed them. Add to that the thousand of commuters who sit in traffic (for hours) on their way to cooled mega buildings, only to punch keyboards tied to energy sucking mainframes powered by a coal burning electrical plant.

Am I rich with too much time on my hand? No to the first - never made a salary to put me in the rich category. Was raised by parents who grew up in the depression, however. and they taught me at an early age how to manage ones income. When times are hard - cut back. When times are good - save most of the excess. And - unlike current dogma - you can't borrow yourself out of debt. I've been saving for well over 50 years - it's paid off.

Mowing is a luxury cosmetic solution, and 20 acres is extreme.

Yes and probably yes - but I've reached a time in my life where I'm going to do what pleasures me - I've earned it.

 

[leonz]

The "healthiest" turf you'll ever run across is generally found on professional sports fields and golf courses. They mow with either bed knife mowers OR rotary mowers WITH SHARP BLADES. They tear grass LESS than other alternatives. (I'm a member @ Valhalla Golf Club, former site of US Open, Ryder Cup, and SR Open, and also a member on their advisory board. BTDT with the golf course mowers)

I'm in the "industry" as far as mowing goes.....We've used flail mowers on occasion. (Alamo commercial grade at that) Where they fall short is in high use (hours) circumstances. They become quite "maintenance intensive" after a time (relative to rotary mowers) .

Flails are great in certain circumstances, but like anything, they aren't the answer for every situation.

ON this WE disagree,

Half the problem is improper operating speed for the flail rotor; if the flail rotor
is not running high speed at the recommended 540 R.P.M. speed for the tractors Power Take Off or if the prime mover is traveling too fast the quality of cut will be very poor or just plain crap.


Flail mowers become maintenance intensive when they are abused, hangers are not inspected and replaced when needed, knives are not sharpened or replaced when broken during operation, and not greased when needed.


The flailmowers bearings are the most sensitive part of a flailmower, wherein if wire or baling twine gets wrapped around the bearing housing it holds the heat and fries the grease in the bearings.

I love how my turf looks everytime I mow with my flail finish mower and I have very little grass to pick up.

I can buy replacement Y blades and dethatching blades for my Lawn Genie from flailmaster and others and wheels and bearings from Palmetto specialty tire.

I mow brush and good sod and have been doing the same thing every year and I am able obtain a beautiful finish everytime I clear brush or mow down to sod.

As far as high use we have 32 years on our towed Mathews Co. Lawn Genie with main bearings and simple engine parts and basic repairs.

Other than the obvious reason of Alamo Industrial eliminating The Mott Mower Company as Competiton, you cannot purchase a reliable and safe towed motorised flail mower from an American manufacturer now and I will have to import one when and if the time comes.

I still shake my head everytime I think about the time the Alamo Salesman at the Empire Farm Days told me towed motorised flail mowers were unsafe to own and operate(we know he did not own one for sure).

We both know the real reason is the cost to manufacture a very high quality mower.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The "healthiest" turf you'll ever run across is generally found on professional sports fields and golf courses. They mow with either bed knife mowers OR rotary mowers WITH SHARP BLADES. They tear grass LESS than other alternatives. (I'm a member @ Valhalla Golf Club, former site of US Open, Ryder Cup, and SR Open, and also a member on their advisory board. BTDT with the golf course mowers)

I'm in the "industry" as far as mowing goes.....We've used flail mowers on occasion. (Alamo commercial grade at that) Where they fall short is in high use (hours) circumstances. They become quite "maintenance intensive" after a time (relative to rotary mowers) .



ON this WE disagree,

Half the problem is improper operating speed for the flail rotor; if the flail rotor
is not running high speed at the recommended 540 R.P.M. speed for the tractors Power Take Off or if the prime mover is traveling too fast the quality of cut will be very poor or just plain crap.


Flail mowers become maintenance intensive when they are abused, hangers are not inspected and replaced when needed, knives are not sharpened or replaced when broken during operation, and not greased when needed.


The flailmowers bearings are the most sensitive part of a flailmower, wherein if wire or baling twine gets wrapped around the bearing housing it holds the heat and fries the grease in the bearings.

I love how my turf looks everytime I mow with my flail finish mower and I have very little grass to pick up.

I can buy replacement Y blades and dethatching blades for my Lawn Genie from flailmaster and others and wheels and bearings from Palmetto specialty tire.

I mow brush and good sod and have been doing the same thing every year and I am able obtain a beautiful finish everytime I clear brush or mow down to sod.

As far as high use we have 32 years on our towed Mathews Co. Lawn Genie with main bearings and simple engine parts and basic repairs.

Other than the obvious reason of Alamo Industrial eliminating The Mott Mower Company as Competiton, you cannot purchase a reliable and safe towed motorised flail mower from an American manufacturer now and I will have to import one when and if the time comes.

I still shake my head everytime I think about the time the Alamo Salesman at the Empire Farm Days told me towed motorised flail mowers were unsafe to own and operate(we know he did not own one for sure).

We both know the real reason is the cost to manufacture a very high quality mower.

No problem with you disagreeing, but I'm not buying a few of your "reasons why".

I have a 2 man maintenance crew that does nothing but service mowers and tractors in the fleet. My equipment is maintained far more intensively than any manufacturer specs. Operational speeds are relatively slow (ground speed) because of circumstances (usually people/vehicles present) PTO speeds are kept @ (or VERY near) 540 or 1000 (as equipment needs) The quality of cut IS NOT the limiting factor (in my case) it's overly demanding maintenance/replacement requirements during high hours usage.

And, with regards to the golf course use.....There is NO baling wire, stumps, car parts, fence posts, ect to contend with. Just perfectly groomed, clean turf. So "abuse" isn't the logic behind using rotary turf mowers. It's all about results. There are several well known manufacturers of golf course turf equipment (inc John Deere) None (that I'm aware of) offer flail type fairway mowers. This is in a "money is no object" market, so I'd expect there is no reason why cost to produce one would be the limiting factor (in this case)

Local turf farm (who sells to several golf course contractors) mows over 200 acres of irrigated zoysia, bluegrass, and bentgrass turf several times per WEEK, ALL with a John Deere ROTARY fairway mower.

Again, NOT "slamming" flails, just stating the obvious.....There are other alternatives that net results as good, and do so at less cost and less maintenance required.

My mowing business logs (last season) over 6000 hours of combined use on multiple mowing rigs. We are constantly on the lookout for new and improved methods of mowing. (to improve speed, cost, AND quality of cut) I've tried a number of flails (different brands) with mixed results. AS I said, they aren't the "one and only answer" to a multitude of problems. Glad you're pleased with yours.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Am I rich with too much time on my hand? No to the first - never made a salary to put me in the rich category. Was raised by parents who grew up in the depression, however. and they taught me at an early age how to manage ones income. When times are hard - cut back. When times are good - save most of the excess. And - unlike current dogma - you can't borrow yourself out of debt. I've been saving for well over 50 years - it's paid off.

Mowing is a luxury cosmetic solution, and 20 acres is extreme.

Yes and probably yes - but I've reached a time in my life where I'm going to do what pleasures me - I've earned it.

But.....Our President says we can borrow our way to prosperity

At any rate, I feel ya on the "do what pleasures me" thing! I have 11 acres of "lawn" in between 2 hay fields. Some would say it's lost hay production, other say too much grass to cut. You know what? It isn't taking hay outta their barn, and they aren't the one who has to cut the grass.... It gives me joy to look out my windows and see lush green grass. I pay the bill, I spend the time. I'm the only one who needs to approve of it in my eyes.