My dealer advised against SUDT

[bugstruck]

SkyPup,

Had an opportunity to try the UDT at slightly colder temps. Wanted to see what happened in the seat with this fluid. It was in the low 20's in the morning so I opened the garage doors and got the temps down from about 35 in there for 4 hours. Then I fired it at 29*F. Honestly, I can't tell the difference in any real way at those temps, except that the thing actually seemed to pull my grades better with the UDT . That may have just been the good air. Now that single weight UDT will probably show some noticable changes at 10*F , I'll grant that. I also understand that it's what I can't feel and see that's the potential issue. It just surprised me that with all the flow reduction indicated in the chart, the swing rate and cylinder operation on the BH seemed unchanged from the SUDT after about 8 minutes of running, when I tried it. I do recall your comment that those chart flow rates are baselined in very cold conditions. Lines around the filters were just starting to warm. Maybe 45- 50 degrees. No time test to work against, just my senses. There is a little different feel "quicker" in the stop action of the cylinders but not that I could tell in the motion speed. It does give the sense of being more connected as the UDT fluid doesn't feel as compressible at those temps as the SUDT. That's just a viscosity thing and nothing to do with actual compression, I know that much. I'm not getting any noises or chatter from it. Sounds and operates essentially like it did before. I'll post a followup if we get some real cold temps later in the month, and I can park it outside overnight. I expect to see something change in performance, at some point. But it's going to take another 10 or 15 degrees to show IMO. Nothing scientific here, just a seat test.

What's your take on this product? Duratran

 

[SkyPup]

Duratran is outstanding, as are the rest of PetroCanada's synthetic motor oils.

Not surprised your backyard seat of the pants did not measure any differences, simply because you don't have a flow meter attached in the lines. Niether UDT or SUDT "compress" to any measureable degree, so forget that. Kubota's professional lubrication engineers know what they are talking about with the vastly increased flow rate of the multigrade SUDT in their hydraulic equipment and transmission assemblies. SUDT is simply an amazing improvement over the straight cut UDT grade.

I installed a full time hydraulic pressure gauge in ours, so I could see if there was any hesitant void to avoid a meltdown. There hasn't been any void, but so far the SUDT gives a 75psi increase across the board.

At 0*C (32*F) the flow rate is increased about 250% with SUDT vs. UDT. So instead of getting the fully rated 13 gallons per minute flow of your hydraulic pump with SUDT, you'd only be getting about 5 gallons per minute using UDT. If there would be somewhere that you could possibly notice the difference with seat of the pants testing methodology, it would be in the power steering response, more spotty and less responsive.

Even at normal operational temperature of the entirely warmed up hydraulics (140*F), SUDT is still providing 35% greater flow rate all the time.

 

[_RaT_]

I have had no improvement in performance in my L3830 or my L48 using UDT, Super UDT or now, Chevrons All Weather full synthetic hydraulic fluid. I have had a pressure gauge on my L3830 since I got it, my hydraulics are still so fast on the loader that the last thing I need is more flow. I do not know what the flow rate of the hydrostatic transmission is for mine, I'm sure it dwarfs the hydraulic flow rate of the implement pump but even with that, there just is no dicernable difference in performance regardless of which hydraulic fluid I use in my climate. We rarely see freezing. The Chevron All Weather was priced right between UDT and Super and is orange so you can more easily read it on the stick.

 

[SkyPup]

Rat, is that orange compatible with Kubota Orange? If so, I may have to try some next 400 hours! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[_RaT_]

It's a little paler but the closest match I have seen. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[bugstruck]

Roger all that. I'm still a little mystified as to how that kind of flow reduction doesn't translate into noticeably reduced cylinder speeds. Maybe I'm stuck on cycle times on log splitters and the corresponding high/low pump flows and missing something. I guess my flow would be reduced to about 3 or 4 GPM on the 8.4 GPM implement circuit pump at around 32*F (45* or 50* fluid temps so maybe it is up near 5 GPM). Still enough for fast BH movements I presume.

Are the GPM flow ratings Kubota cites with SUDT or UDT?

Given your added 75 PSI gauge readings, that would theoretically make the tractor about 3% more powerful on the all hydraulic components, correct? At least if your still below relief settings.

The flow rate increase would also make the high demand Hydro driven components theoretically faster though correct? We need two identical tractors, different fluids, for a drag race /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Lets make it 0*C. I want the UDT tractor but I'm looking for a handicapped start. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Gotta have some fun with this stuff.

I understand on the compression of the fluids. Nothing there.

Saw the helo /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bulldog69]

Does Kubota publish pour points for both fluids like engine oil manufacturers? I'm curious what the difference might be.

I'm new here but not new to tractors.
I thought I would throw you guys a curve ball with my 2 cents.

Amsoil Synthetic Oil is flowing thru the veins of everything I own.

5w30 Heavy Duty Diesel oil
pour point is -58 F

Tractor Hyd/Trans oil 5w30
pour point is -51 F

Severe gear 75w90
-58 F

Severe gear 75w110
-54 F

Severe gear 75w140
-54 F

I run the HDD 5w30 in all my diesel engines. Although the service life of this oil is rated at 25,000 mi or 1 year for my 7.3 powerstroke I change it at 10,000 mi because I pull a trailer all the times hauling equipment.
The fuel economy has increased on average 4 MPG. In 10,000 miles it will save me about $500 on fuel alone (depending on current price)
Does the same in my tractors but have no way to figure MPG increase.

This tells me there is less friction using Amsoil which means less wear on the components.

Here is a simple test you can do at home and see the difference for yourself. Get a quart bottle of Amsoil 5w30 HDD and a bottle of what you use and stick them in the freezer over night. Get them out and the Amsoil will move freely in the bottle and most likely your oil will be a quart size brick until it warms up.
The same thing is happening in your engine during cold weather. The same can be said about your gear oil as well as the tranny fluid.

Don't take my word on this. Try it for yourself and your eyes will be opened to the benefits of the best oil on the market.
Fuel savings alone will more than pay for the cost of the oil. Consider the redused component wear a bonus.

You guys kick that one around for a while.
I'll throw this in as well. A manufacture by law can't require you to run a certain type of oil unless they supply it to you free of charge.

 

[MikePA]

As a new guy, some advice, you might want to check the age of the thread you're replying to. This one has been dormant for 4.5 years.

 

[Redneck in training]

But it is as good as new now.

 

[Skyco]

A manufacture by law can't require you to run a certain type of oil unless they supply it to you free of charge.

I don't think that is correct. They certainly can require a certain type of oil...they can't require one use only their oil without supplying it free of charge.
Many, many require certain types of oil for warranty.