My New 4in1 Bucket Came In!

[MorningViewStables]

Those videos were really cool, but my guess is that is a very poor indication of what I can expect when I put a 4n1 bucket on a 50hp loader tractor.

I can second that! The 4in1 can be heavy! Mine is sized for the tractor, weighs 1,200lbs and requires 2,000lbs of ballast. It is mounted on a Heavy Duty loader and a 75hp MFWD tractor with AG tires.

Also, operator controls have a huge impact on the productivity of the 4in1. If you do not have button controls on hour hydraulic lift lever for the clam AND shuttle shift/powereverser transmission, you will perform very poorly with a 4-in-1. It is meant to be used in both directions and you need to learn to be able to make rapid changes operating the CLAM, loader lift and rotation simultaneously. You should consider Hydraulic Pump capacity as you will suffer performance if you are waiting on your hydraulics to re-position your clam, loader and bucket angle.

I have an appropriate machine to get the work out of the 4in1. Anything less and the 4in1 would be getting the work out of the machine (and operator) just to handle it. Choose your 4in1 wisely. If you are on using it as a hobby, your requirement thresholds for performance may differ.

 

[Verticaltrx]

RDrancher, what is your experience with using the bucket opening on a 4in1 to meter out material, ie spread to a specific depth based on the opening width? I often build round pens and riding arenas and I just have to spread the sand/base material by eye then go back and grade it. If one could open the clam on a 4in1 to a set opening and drive at a certain speed I'd think you could fairly accurately spread loose materials. Thoughts?

 

[MorningViewStables]

RDrancher, what is your experience with using the bucket opening on a 4in1 to meter out material, ie spread to a specific depth based on the opening width? I often build round pens and riding arenas and I just have to spread the sand/base material by eye then go back and grade it. If one could open the clam on a 4in1 to a set opening and drive at a certain speed I'd think you could fairly accurately spread loose materials. Thoughts?

One if it's best features is metering aggregate materials as long as they are relativity dry and uniform. Clumps like manure, (some) sawdust, damp clay, not so much as they will create gaps in the flow however, the flip side is that the 4in1 becomes a great filter for getting clumpy stuff out by mesured openings of the clam. Got a cinder block in that sand! Easily fished out with the 4in1!

 

[RDrancher]

RDrancher, what is your experience with using the bucket opening on a 4in1 to meter out material, ie spread to a specific depth based on the opening width? I often build round pens and riding arenas and I just have to spread the sand/base material by eye then go back and grade it. If one could open the clam on a 4in1 to a set opening and drive at a certain speed I'd think you could fairly accurately spread loose materials. Thoughts?

I actually have no experience doing that, except for filtering out soil from rocks. I might give it a try though. I can see it working fairly well for dry material. If the moisture content of the material is too high and disrupts flow, it won't work any better than waterfalling it off the lip of the bucket. I'll probably use it more for spreading material by opening it up at the end of a push instead of rolling the bucket forward and spreading with the teeth. That depends on the moisture content of the material too. If the soil is fairly moist and clumpy, it works better to slowly dump at ground level, spread with the teeth and backdrag with the teeth on the way out to break it up. I'm really looking forward to the extended reach for dressing up banks and cleaning up swales. Since skid steers and ctls don't have much reach below the tracks (unlike a tractor), I'm sure I'll appreciate the extended reach there too.

 

[kevin37b]

John , did you get those hoses straightened out ? Would like to see what you did . Thanks , Kevin .

 

[RDrancher]

John , did you get those hoses straightened out ? Would like to see what you did . Thanks , Kevin .

Still waiting for the part to come in Kevin. I'll post pics when I get it welded up.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm with you on that too. Personally I would never put a 4n1 on my tractor. I wouldn't want to reduce the loader lifting weight that much. I can see the bucket being real handy for a lot of ranch and farm work though, like cleaning up turnouts and hauling manure.

Yeah I definitely agree if it's a 40HP or less tractor. A large percentage of the lift capacity would be used up. The larger the tractor, the less impact this would be.

I've not weighed it, but I bought a Bobcat lowpro bucket and built a double clawed Grapple on it. It's pretty heavy. I don't notice it's weight on my M9540. But I've had it on my Brothers L3240 and notice a dramatic decrease in load carrying ability.

 

[RDrancher]

No bashing here, just the plain and simple truth.

I was going to let this go unless someone asked, but my devotion to the great members (and their great FREE advice) here on TBN won't let me. This is a place to share both the good and bad, and that's helpful when it comes to shelling out you're hard earned cash.

While the owner of the company was great to deal with, I can't suggest them as a source for attachments. You indeed get what you pay for.

Two things raised their ugly head when I finally got the chance to use the bucket for the first time. There was a major gap in the left side QA plate and a little smaller one on the right. Up and down and QA face to face. Not a little "lets shim it up" gap either...we're talking a bunch! Also, the clam wouldn't stay even remotely closed with the bucket in the dump position. The weight of the clam was too much for the cylinder. All of these flaws together made for a very heavy rattletrap of a bucket. I was informed that I must have accidentally been sent a "second". He apologized and said that their quality control department should have caught it. The bucket was returned and another sent out.

The second bucket (no pun intended, cuz I ain't laughin') was far worse than the first! The jaws weren't lined up at all with a 7/8" daylight gap on one side. The clam and dozer cutting edges were way off, closed on one end but 1/2" apart on the other as well. The fitment of the QA plate was once again horrendous.

When I contacted the owner he related that he hadn't actually inspected the bucket before it was sent out and that I must have accidentally been sent a "second" again! I'm thinking...you already sent out a flawed bucket and have an unhappy customer...and you don't even check it out first? Quality control my butt!

The owner related in another email that neither bucket should have been sent out to me...then said that I would have to pay for the return of both buckets! My response was NO FLIPPIN' WAY!

So I ended up only being out the shipping on the original bucket and finally got my check in the mail today.

What I don't get, is that I told him that I had started threads here and on an equipment forum. You think he would have made sure that (at least) the second bucket was right! I'm just figuring that he doesn't care. :confused3:

 

[RDrancher]

They say the proof is in the pudding. So to remove any doubt...here's the pudding.

The first bucket.


The second bucket in the fully closed position.


I tried both buckets on my tractor for QA fitment. Same thing.

 

[Green Power]

You should start a thread about this on HEF.

 

[RDrancher]

You should start a thread about this on HEF.

I figure that's not a bad idea. A lot of good folks over there. I need to catch up on the thread that I already have over at LS first.

 

[Rustyiron]

Sorry about your bucket deal, it could have turned out costing you more than it did.
FWIT I had a CAL 4/1 that I can recommend. I have noticed variations in the SS QA dimensions over the years. They are all in the vertical dimension like your problem bucket(s). You shouldn't have to do it but I have welded in a shim on the bottom when the "rattlin'" attachment drives me crazy.

 

[RDrancher]

Sorry about your bucket deal, it could have turned out costing you more than it did.
FWIT I had a CAL 4/1 that I can recommend. I have noticed variations in the SS QA dimensions over the years. They are all in the vertical dimension like your problem bucket(s). You shouldn't have to do it but I have welded in a shim on the bottom when the "rattlin'" attachment drives me crazy.

Mine was the face of the QA to the bucket, combined with the up and down. It felt like 5000 hour bucket pins and bushings and sounded like it too...even with the bad-to-the-bone Jensen radio on.

 

[nc redneck]

Get a WR Long 4 in 1. The gold standard for 4 in 1 buckets. I have abused mine for 7 years now, never had a problem.

 

[RDrancher]

Get a WR Long 4 in 1. The gold standard for 4 in 1 buckets. I have abused mine for 7 years now, never had a problem.

Hey redneck, out of curiosity does the WR bucket have a pilot valve to keep the bucket from drifting open? The Bradco I used doesn't have one and I had problems with that. I now realize that with the power a ctl puts to the ground, I'm going to want that valve.

 

[nc redneck]

Not sure about what kind of valve it has. I open bucket and it stays at that point no matter what. Even to the point of cutting hard packed crush and run for 2 hours like I did last weekend.

 

[IslandTractor]

Hey redneck, out of curiosity does the WR bucket have a pilot valve to keep the bucket from drifting open? The Bradco I used doesn't have one and I had problems with that. I now realize that with the power a ctl puts to the ground, I'm going to want that valve.

I have a WRLong 4n1. Don't know what type of valve but I've never seen the bucket drift open.

Oh yeah, and everything lines up and closes tight and evenly.

 

[Rustyiron]

RD, what is this valve for? Have you had 4/1's open like when back dragging? I'm pretty sure that mine did not have one and I had no issues. I'm under the "thinking" that when each end of your cyl. is piped to a closed valve, that unless something is leaking, the cyl. should not move in either direction unless some fluid is getting through it. Just curious and not questioning your post.

 

[RDrancher]

RD, what is this valve for? Have you had 4/1's open like when back dragging? I'm pretty sure that mine did not have one and I had no issues. I'm under the "thinking" that when each end of your cyl. is piped to a closed valve, that unless something is leaking, the cyl. should not move in either direction unless some fluid is getting through it. Just curious and not questioning your post.

No problem Rusty. I'm not a hydraulic wizard like JJ (obviously), but I've had this happen on a few different rental machines with different buckets. I think that the valve takes care of this, but I'm not sure AND you bring up a good point that I have to check out now. On the Kubota SVL, the bucket is either open or closed...nothing in between. My CASE had a thumb roller that positions the clam wherever I want. Maybe I don't need the valve? I'll have to find out.

Redneck and Island - Thank you for the info. I'm working with lumberjack1986 on a CE (Edge) bucket. I'll see what he can find out about my question above.

 

[ovrszd]

A Pilot Valve locks the cylinder and is only as accurate as the seals in the cylinder. It eliminates drift caused by a leaky valve. I'll go out on a limb here and say 90% of drift is caused by a leaky valve. Rarely is it caused by a leaky cylinder. So the valve is an asset 90% of the time if you are experiencing drift.

Our Backhoe has them on the stabilizer pad cylinders. Couple days ago I broke a hose on the Pressure side of the valve with the pad down and the rear wheels of the hoe off the ground. It stayed in position. I repaired the hose and then was able to lift the pad and lower the tire to the ground.