Buying Advice need advice for new kubota

[TripleR]

The CK 20, a big bad gnarly tractor :laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing: I know the BX line is a SCUT and the CK 20 is a CUT, but it's the smallest tractor Kioti currently makes (wait a few months and the SCUT line will be at the dealers if it's not there now). A previous member posted that you will either buy a bigger tractor than you think you need, or trade the first one in and buy a bigger one later, I fully agree with that.

My point is simply if you're going to spend that kind of money, you can get a lot more tractor that will do all the things the little BX will do plus %1000 more! They are both small tractors that are maneuverable and easily stored. One is just capable of so much more and costs about the same.

Like the OP, I also have 3 acres, my driveway is paved and 26' X 100', I used to cut the lawn (3 hours) with a 20hp JD home depot special and clear the snow with a 28" 10hp Murray snowblower. I had no idea of all the things I would do with a tractor, but I'm currently on my second tractor and seriously regret not buying the next frame size up with double the lift capacity of the tractor I have, and mine is about 4 time the capacity of the BX2360! Buy as big as meets your budget IMO, and I think a lot of very experienced people on TBN will agree with that.

After using our BX2200 for several years, we decided to "upgrade" to a CUT and even sold our BX. After looking at CUTs, we brought a new BX2660 home and after four years have no desire for anything bigger.

I guess I am an experienced person in the minority.

Again; "Bigger isn't always better, sometimes bigger is just bigger."

 

[PHILIP8N]

I only have some of the info you need, so you may not be able to explain the huge difference I see.

The gas mower is 21 hp B&S, I run it at full throttle (but no tach so I don't know the RPM). The mower deck is three blades, 42" cut.

The diesel is 23 hp (17 hp at the mid PTO which drives the mower, but I assume the engine hp is what's important.) I run it at about 3000 rpm. The mower deck is three blades, 54" cut.

The gas is 2hp smaller, but also cutting a full foot less grass each pass. The difference between the "power" of the two is night and day, from the day they've been new. I'm not exaggerating - there really is a huge difference. I'd always attributed that to diesel torque everyone talks about, but after reading your posts, that doesn't seem to be the case. Can the extra 2hp be making that much difference??

How big of a role does engine displacement play? I don't know the displacement of the two, but the B&S gas is only two cylinders, the Kubota diesel is three cylinders.

The 21hp B&S will have less hp at the pto, just like your other tractor. But as stated above, gasoline engine manufacturers really 'stretch' the ratings of their engines, so I doubt if it is a true 21hp. May just be the smell of diesel, it is intoxicating! Philip.

 

[wrooster]

I think $15K is a lot of money for a little tractor. Before I get yelled at, I'm saying little, not bad and maybe little is what you want and need, but you could get a whole lot more tractor for that kind of money.

Eh, that $15K includes a deck and a front mount snowblower -- the latter is not inexpensive, by the way.

I was convinced I was buying a new kubota to replace my JD. I really only shopped the other brands to satisfy myself that I wasn't jumping into something blind and had done my homework. I found that the world has more than (Kubota) orange and JD green.

Before spending that much money, go look at a Kioti CK20 ...

I can't believe that you are recommending a Kioti after all of the issues you had with yours. I mean, your new tractor had to be split TWICE in the first hundred hours to first repair the HST and then a fluid leak? In the link below you stated "Tractor now has 107 hours at least 10 of which is from the dealer fixing it" and you are suggesting this brand in the Kubota forum?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/218090-my-new-ck-30-a-4.html

Wrooster

 

[PHILIP8N]

I can't believe that you are recommending a Kioti after all of the issues you had with yours. I mean, your new tractor had to be split TWICE in the first hundred hours to first repair the HST and then a fluid leak? In the link below you stated "Tractor now has 107 hours at least 10 of which is from the dealer fixing it" and you are suggesting this brand in the Kubota forum?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/218090-my-new-ck-30-a-4.html

Wrooster

That is great stuff! Everyone needs to check out that link and the whining. Here is a copy paste from kiotiken (wanna be Kubota orange, now I understand) Philip.

From Ken:

Well, I couldn't resist the $1500 rebate Kioti was offering on cabs for the CK27-35, so I pulled the trigger and had one installed. I've had the tractor back for a week and I'm getting used to the cab, so here's a few pictures and a bit of a review.

Like everything else I buy, nothing goes smoothly, and this cab is going to fit right into this category quite nicely. I don't have too many good things to say about it so I'll break the issues down between Kioti issues and installation issues. I've got a call into the dealer and will be discussing those issues today, so I won't get to far into them in the hopes they'll be fixed.

First, the good. Very nice looking cab (from the outside). It's warm. It's a little lower than the tractor was with the ROPS. Sorry, that's all I can think of.

Starting with the Kioti issues. My dealer didn't have one of these set up, and neither did any of the other dealers around me, so I relied on the brochure from Kioti (http://www.kioti.com/attach_files/Pr...compressed.pdf) and any pictures I could find on the internet (Thanks KiotiKarl! TractorByNet.com - Compact Tractor Forum). Unfortunately, the specs don't match the product. Listed as standard features are:

1) Pre-wired audio den with speakers - No speakers included, dealer DID install them.
2) Side/Rear view mirrors. - No Rear view mirror, although, there does seem to be a place to attach one. (first pic)
3) Cup holder - No, not for the CK27-35 version. Pics from KiotiKarl show one for the CK20 version. You might say "who cares", and you may be right, but many mornings I've gone out with a coffee in a travel mug for some seat time.
4) They didn't ship all the parts, I'm now waiting on the hardware for the front windshield, my dealer wired it shut in the meantime.

Now for the installation issues. Some may end up moving to the Kioti issue category.

1) The floor is VERY sloppy, it doesn't seem to fit, seems to have been installed in the wrong order (I would guess it should have been the first thing installed, not the last), and will allow water to penetrate and rust out the floor. See pic 2 & 3.

2) The insulating matting is missing around the centre console. It is clearly visible in the picture from KiotiKarl, pic 4, but it is missing and I can stick my hand through the floor, pic 5. Kioti went to some trouble to make the material tight to all control levers, so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have left gaping holes right beside the engine compartment. This material is to reduce noise after all.

3) The material under the seat doesn't fit properly, pic 6.

I'll leave it there, I may update more later, but I do really like my dealer and he deserves the chance to make these issues right as well as a few others we don't need to get into.

To end on a positive note, I asked for a rear wiper. I was told there wasn't one available. My dealer did figure out how to mount one for me. I also inquired into adding a second remote but then decided to put it off until I buy a snowblower. When I got the tractor back, my dealer had gone ahead with it because they would have had to remove the cab to do it in the future. This may have been a big issue for some, but I appreciated it and I'm glad it only cost me $500 now instead of $1000 next year. He also told me I could pay for it later if I wanted to, which I didn't.

Dear Ken, please don't push the Kioti stuff to us anymore. I would not wish these issues on my worst enemies. Philip.

 

[kiotiken]

After using our BX2200 for several years, we decided to "upgrade" to a CUT and even sold our BX. After looking at CUTs, we brought a new BX2660 home and after four years have no desire for anything bigger.

I guess I am an experienced person in the minority.

Again; "Bigger isn't always better, sometimes bigger is just bigger."

TripleR,
I've read hundreds of your posts and generally think you're a voice of wisdom in the TBN community. I'm struggling with this post however. Do you care to list your tractor arsenal that you've built between your various farms? (I'm not sure I want to dig through all your previous posts like others have done for me) If the BX won't do a job for you, you jump on the Mxxxx or one of the other half dozen machines you have. Of course your BX does everything you ask of it, you only ask what a BX is good for, not everybody is so lucky.

 

[kiotiken]

Eh, that $15K includes a deck and a front mount snowblower -- the latter is not inexpensive, by the way.


I can't believe that you are recommending a Kioti after all of the issues you had with yours. I mean, your new tractor had to be split TWICE in the first hundred hours to first repair the HST and then a fluid leak? In the link below you stated "Tractor now has 107 hours at least 10 of which is from the dealer fixing it" and you are suggesting this brand in the Kubota forum?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/218090-my-new-ck-30-a-4.html
Wrooster

Yup, no doubt, I've had issues, most have been minor, with the exception of the hst that was replaced because it "crept" forward instead of returning to the neutral or stopped position. Every manufacturer has issues, it's the way they handle them that counts. Unlike dealers and Kubota who have refused to acknowledge the jerky 3pt hitch issue on the Lxxxx tractors (what I would have been stuck with if I'd bought the tractor I originally set out for), Kioti has been awesome at fixing everything that comes up. My dealer either fixes little issues on site or hauls it off, completely free, and returns it a day or two later. I've now got 160 hrs on the clock and 3 year left on my 4 year warranty.

That is great stuff! Everyone needs to check out that link and the whining. Here is a copy paste from kiotiken (wanna be Kubota orange, now I understand) Philip.
From Ken:...

Happily Kioti orange is more accurate. My CK30 out specs, out works and is a luxury tractor compared to the L2900/L3200 that I was shopping at the time (oh ya, did I mention it was slightly cheaper too?).

I'm flattered you guys have spent so much time researching my previous musings here on TBN, almost like you feel threatened if somebody doesn't blindly say Kubota is the only answer. As far as my whining, yes, I was disappointed initially by the Kioti Cab and installation. Again, it's how it's handled that's important. My dealer came back and spent 4 more hours with 2 guys and fixed the instal. (I mostly blame Kioti for lack of dealer training on this product). As for the missing features, what a pain, but again, Kioti addressed each one of them and made good on them all. Then, for all my trouble, they sent me a super nice jacket, really nice hoody, and a nice ball cap. The cab is now perfect and I'm a happy guy, what more are you looking for when you buy something?

Now guys, as far as pushing Kioti, you need to work on your reading comprehension a little. Read my previous posts, I'll summarize to make it easier.

Spending 15K (implements or not) without first looking at ALL the options if foolish. Look at Cub Cadet, Yanmar, JD, the new Kioti SCUT (CS2410: Kioti's First Ever Subcompact Tractor - TractorByNet.com) and anything else you find.

I stand by what I said earlier, at that price, buy a tractor that can do what you want now, and what you may want to do later.

 

[PHILIP8N]

Unlike dealers and Kubota who have refused to acknowledge the jerky 3pt hitch issue on the Lxxxx tractors.

As far as I know, there are no jerky 3pt hitch issues on the Lxx40 tractors, and certainly not on my L3940. Not sure what you mean by Lxxxx. Philip.

 

[kiotiken]

As far as I know, there are no jerky 3pt hitch issues on the Lxx40 tractors, and certainly not on my L3940. Not sure what you mean by Lxxxx. Philip.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, only offer some advice to the OP. I'd be willing to bet you know full well that the jerky 3pt hitch applies to the economy L series and not the Grand L series, almost every Kubota person here on TBN does. I did mention the two models I was looking at L2900 and L3200 (if memory serves), both affected by the issue. I'm not sure why you're trying to be so difficult instead of constructive with your advice to a new member and potential new tractor owner.

 

[PHILIP8N]

I'd be willing to bet you know full well that the jerky 3pt hitch applies to the economy L series and not the Grand L series, almost every Kubota person here on TBN does.

Yes, I know that, but you were not clear when you said 'Lxxxx tractors', which would include my L3940, which is not the case of the Lxx40 series of tractors. Philip.

 

[kiotiken]

Yes, I know that, but you were not clear when you said 'Lxxxx tractors', which would include my L3940, which is not the case of the Lxx40 series of tractors. Philip.

It was simply a point. All tractor manufactures have issues so I don't think it's helpful to a discussion to point to one tractor experience on one model from a manufacturer. Take a jump over to the Kioti forum and you'll find very few issues and lots of smiling faces.

 

[wrooster]

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, only offer some advice to the OP. I'd be willing to bet you know full well that the jerky 3pt hitch applies to the economy L series and not the Grand L series, almost every Kubota person here on TBN does. I did mention the two models I was looking at L2900 and L3200 (if memory serves), both affected by the issue.

Which has what to do with the OP's original query, as follows?

I am considering a kubota bx1860.

I'm not sure why you're trying to be so difficult instead of constructive with your advice to a new member and potential new tractor owner.

I seem to recall you posting VW Jetta and Subaru WRX engine power output numbers. How is that considered constructive advice? LoL.

Dear OP:
See
Kubota BX1860 Reviews - TractorByNet.com
and in particular
Kubota BX1860 Review by wrooster - TractorByNet.com

Wrooster

 

[kiotiken]

Which has what to do with the OP's original query, as follows?



I seem to recall you posting VW Jetta and Subaru WRX engine power output numbers. How is that considered constructive advice? LoL.

Dear OP:
See
Kubota BX1860 Reviews - TractorByNet.com
and in particular
Kubota BX1860 Review by wrooster - TractorByNet.com

Wrooster

Again, reading is important, the OP is not looking at the BX1860 anymore, he's looking at the 2360 now.

This thread is pretty much dead as far a helping the OP, he's got P.O'd enough with it to start a new one, and I can't blame him.

I don't think he's willing to listen to much logic and his mind seems set, but surely I can't be the only one thinking he's making a mistake spending $15K, not getting the FEL that he wants to buy later! (read his other thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/241356-kubota-price-quote.html) That doesn't seem like the best approach IMHO, he could get a more capable tractor WITH a FEL for that price. Maybe I just don't understand the SCUT market, but unless you're on 1/2 or an acre, what's the difference (other than performance) to buying a small CUT

 

[PHILIP8N]

Take a jump over to the Kioti forum and you'll find very few issues and lots of smiling faces.

I read your issues and it scared me away! I will stay here, I like it better. Philip.

 

[kiotiken]

I read your issues and it scared me away! I will stay here, I like it better. Philip.

Fair enough, I read $15K and I don't get the FEL that I want, and that scares me away! Some orange paint is apparently more expensive than others.

 

[PHILIP8N]

the OP is not looking at the BX1860 anymore, he's looking at the 2360 now.

Whoa, big difference now.

This thread is pretty much dead as far a helping the OP, he's got P.O'd enough with it to start a new one, and I can't blame him.

Me either, see what you did.

I don't think he's willing to listen to much logic and his mind seems set,:

So, since the OP will not listen to you that makes him dumb and illogical?

I can't be the only one thinking he's making a mistake spending $15K, not getting the FEL that he wants to buy later!

I bought L3940, sub-frame, and front blade with my initial purchase. I could not afford FEL at that time, and I was not sure if I really needed one since I suvived for 20 years with a 8N and rear scoop. After about 1 year, I ran across a used FEL with quick attach heavy duty bucket at Barlows for almost 1/2 the price as new. All worked out well for me in the long run!

Philip

 

[TripleR]

TripleR,
I've read hundreds of your posts and generally think you're a voice of wisdom in the TBN community. I'm struggling with this post however. Do you care to list your tractor arsenal that you've built between your various farms? (I'm not sure I want to dig through all your previous posts like others have done for me) If the BX won't do a job for you, you jump on the Mxxxx or one of the other half dozen machines you have. Of course your BX does everything you ask of it, you only ask what a BX is good for, not everybody is so lucky.

I am not so sure my wife would agree with you. A few years ago I was repairing a road with our BX by hauling buckets full of crushed rock one mile round trip then leveling it out with my 4' box blade. My wife asked why I didn't go to another farm and get a bigger tractor to which I replied "It's a nice day and what else have I got to do when I finish." OK, so it took a few nice days, but I got it done.:laughing:

Yes, we own several tractors and several farms, but each tractor has its use or we are sentimentally attached as we still own my dad's first and only new tractor a 1955 Ford 600.

 

[GolfAddict]

<snip>

I guess I am an experienced person in the minority.

Again; "Bigger isn't always better, sometimes bigger is just bigger."

I'm not sure if we're in the minority, or just less vocal. I think the BX size tractors fill a needed niche, and apparently so do a lot of others as they are a pretty popular line for Kubota.

For me, a larger tractor size just wouldn't work. I mow about 5 acres, but I have numerous ornamental trees, crab trees, plum trees, bushes, weeping willows that sweep nearly to the ground, etc. I have to mow with the ROPS down the way it is. A larger tractor would be problematic. I also have some fairly steep areas I mow where I put the ROPS up and seatbelt on. On those areas I don't want the higher COG of a taller tractor.

I do have many uses for my FEL and many other attachments, but the size of my DIY projects are easily fulfilled by my BX. For larger projects, I'm more comfortable hiring help.

I have a barn to store my implements, but I prefer to store the BX in a stall of my heated garage. It drives in and stores nicely.

For me, bigger is not better, it's just bigger. And I don't want bigger.

I don't see why so often there seems to an assumption that someone asking for advice on a SCUT purchase would be better directed to a CUT sized purchase or they'll end up unhappy with their SCUT. There are trade offs that need to be considered.

 

[kiotiken]

TripleR,
I am sorry to hear about your health issues, I do remember you mentioning them in other threads an that is the reason you moved away from open station tractors.

I agree with you that the BX is a great little tractor. This maybe all the OP wants and needs. You and I have said countless times in countless threads that the best thing to do is look at all the options before making a decision. As far as the rest of this noise goes, I could care less if the OP buys a Kioti, I get exactly a 0% commission on every sale I bring in.

 

[kiotiken]

Me either, see what you did.

I just tried to offer advice that the OP was free to use or ignore, not sure why it ruffled your feathers so much, but I'm starting to understand that you're always right and it's never your fault.

So, since the OP will not listen to you that makes him dumb and illogical?

My only advice is to shop around and that he might be able to get more tractor if he wants, for the same price. If he ignores my advice to shop around, I think he's foolish. If he doesn't think a bigger tractor is for him, that his decision and is probably a wise one for him.

I bought L3940, sub-frame, and front blade with my initial purchase. I could not afford FEL at that time, and I was not sure if I really needed one since I suvived for 20 years with a 8N and rear scoop. After about 1 year, I ran across a used FEL with quick attach heavy duty bucket at Barlows for almost 1/2 the price as new. All worked out well for me in the long run!
Philip

I'm glad it all worked out for you. Two differences in this case.

1) the OP knows he wants a FEL.

2) the same money the OP is willing to spend on the BX2360 will buy him a tractor with FEL, so he can afford it.

 

[TripleR]

TripleR,
I am sorry to hear about your health issues, I do remember you mentioning them in other threads an that is the reason you moved away from open station tractors.

I agree with you that the BX is a great little tractor. This maybe all the OP wants and needs. You and I have said countless times in countless threads that the best thing to do is look at all the options before making a decision. As far as the rest of this noise goes, I could care less if the OP buys a Kioti, I get exactly a 0% commission on every sale I bring in.

Hey, I just feel lucky to still be on the green side of the grass and hope I don't come across as complaining.

I couldn't agree more and while I really like the BX, have recommended the John Deere 1026R to prospective SCUT owners. I really see no difference in overall quality among the top brands and a person really needs to find the one that fits them as what someone else extols as a positive another may view as a negative.