New "B" series catalog..

[IslandTractor]

"I guess they know their market however and that market seems to be light suburban mowing machines on steroids"

Really? The "B" series is by far the #1 tractor in S. Washington and N. Oregon. The B7800 is the #1 selling tractor for it's size. Guess there are a lot of stupid people that work for Microsoft, Boeing and Intel...

Kioti sells less new units then John Deere sells used tracotrs! I respect John Deere, I would rather have a good used John Deere then a new Kioti.

BTW-Kubota outsells John Deere in CUT is Oregon or Washington.

I wasn't trying to start a color war. Besides, the comment that I repeated came from a Kubota dealer when explaining why position control was not necessary on the B class machines. Apparently most B class owners don't use the 3PT hitch anyway but simply have a MMM.

The B's are excellent reliable tractors I was just surprised that when Kubota did a revamp of the whole line that they changed so very little. As noted in my earlier post they did at least one thing that is really good which is to go from two speed to three speed HST. However they didn't up the loader capacity by more than a few pounds, did not fix the dumb quarter inching valve thing, and did not add a suspension seat. They seem to have focused on cosmetics. Maybe that is a smart move in the vein of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I was just surprised that after five or so years since the last update that this was all they did.

Regarding JD, Kubota and Kioti....people have their favorite colors. Kioti is the newer kid on the block and many folks prefer the established brands just like they favored Ford and Chevy over Toyota and Honda thirty years ago. I think anyone looking at the 20-23hp range CUT will find that JD and Kubota offerings are excellent and are focused or opitimzed for mowing with MMM. The Kioti CK20 is heavier, with stronger FEL and has some very nice features missing on the other entry level tractors...try a suspension seat sometime and you'll see what I mean. All these Asian made tractors are good reliable machines but they are aimed at different niches. Performance wise Kioti gets more competition from Mahindra on "utility" tractor grounds than from green or the other orange. I stand behind the notion that the CK20 stands out as a utility tractor in this group while the JD and B series stand out as mowing machines. The Kioti can mow and the JDs and B series can clearly accomplish utility tractor tasks, my point is just that each excels on different sides of that dicotomy.

 

[bxowner]

I'm just going to say this - knowing that it won't be popular. But I find that most people on this site are respectful of others' opinions and don't disregard a comment simply because of "color."

Kubota lost my business over lack of position control on the 24hp "B" series. Plain and simple. I was all set to finance a B7610, having been absolutely thrilled with my BX1500. I moved, though, and have to work on an undeveloped lot. I went to the John Deere dealer to simply satisfy my assumption that the comparable model was overpriced... boy was I surprised. The JD 2320 not only offered position control, but plenty of "modern" details that really impressed me: drive-over mid mower deck, one piece hood that lifted easily and exposed the entire engine, a loader that can be disconnected by simply lifting two levers from the operator's seat (of course hydraulics require getting off the tractor - but that is true of all tractors, for now). It also solved one of life's biggest conundrums... split brakes that can be operated by one foot while the other controls the hydro drive!

Price difference? $188.00.

To me, there's no explanation or excuse for not offering position control on the latest redesign.

Now, for the record, life on the other side of the fence isn't perfect. The lack of a 3-range hydro on the 2320 is driving me nutty. I've just run into so many situations where 'high' is too much and 'low' is not enough... and there'd be nothing better than 2 or 3 more hp. But then I'd be in a B2630 or B3030!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

BTW-Kubota outsells John Deere in CUT is Oregon or Washington.

Its about 2-1 under 100hp nationwide, under 50hp I am sure its higher still.

 

[MacTractor]

Does anyone know when these models will hit the streets?

Cheers,

 

[DmansPadge]

To me, there's no explanation or excuse for not offering position control on the latest redesign.

I don't understand everybodys problem with the 1/4 inching valve. I'm not sure if many of the people who comment on it have ever even used it. Somebody in a thread a while back was under the assumtion that you had to lower and raise the 3pt a 1/4 inch at a time all the time! So just to lift an attachment for transport of whatever you would have to move the lever 50 times (or however many times it would take).... not even realizing that you can lift or lower all at once if you want to.... and that was one of the posters reasons for not liking it. It is obvious that he never used it since that is clearly not how it works. Ohh well... it works fine for me.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Mactractor.. A dealer told me yesterday "any minute now", and other dealers have said March, or April. I know dealers have their orders in, but seem to be still a little unclear about pricing. The latest I have heard on that is that prices will remain about what they were.

Islandtractor... I started this thread to get comments, both pro, and con about the new models due to arrive soon. I have to admit that the slightly sarcastic tone of your first response ruffled my feathers some, but I had no intention of starting a color war with my response. What I did want to encourage with that response was that folks do some research before responding, and not try to make points by throwing comments in that tone at other's choices. Tractors are a big investment, and name calling doesn't buy one friends. I support your CK20 choice, and have stated that, but that tractor will do absolutely nothing that a B3030 won't do. Right now I am looking seriously at Kubota, and John Deere tractors, and with a little less excitement at both Kioti, and Mahindra tractors, so I'm about as color blind as they come. Having said that, I have to admit that I am a little disappointed not to see position control, etc. on the new models. Kubota is making a point of stating that these are "Standard Tractors", and obviously is keeping some features for their Premium B2630, and B3030 tractors. If you want those features in a B sized tractor they are available. Suspension seats are not available on any B series, but with just something over 2000 hours on tractors on my little 13 acres, I don't really need one. Nice mid mount mowers, front mounted snowblowers, and blades, etc. are also availabe, and are important to many. Kubota has a great reputation with their small B sized tractors, and I'm sure they aren't anxious to mess with that success too much. With more choices available in the market place today, they will lose some customers who seek things like position control in a tractor that size, and for that price point. Lifting capacity, both with the loader, and 3pt hitch are certainly available in the Kubota B series line to match anything available in that weight range, and with a tighter turning radius, etc, than most. Three point capacity, especially exceeds the competition, and that can be important for people more intersted in safely lifting pallets of pellets, firewood, or stone, etc. than in showing lack of good judgement by seeing how high in the air they can take photos of it.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Dmanspage... I agree that there is much misunderstanding about the Kubota 1/4 inching. There are also some issues from users that feel the system just doesn't work. I have been on a lot of Kubotas with this feature, and have found that many are not set up properly by dealers, and thus don't function as intended........ as I understand it anyway. It is my understanding (perhaps wrong) that when pushed to the 1/4 inching stop in either direction, and released, the lift lever will return to the center / neutral position by itself. This gives you a quick, and repeatable small adjustment feature. Gross adjustment is made by moving the lever to the steady lift / lower position, and fine adjustment is made with the 1/4 inching stops. I have adjusted the stops to make this work correctly on a couple of tractors, and find it works pretty well. Many Kubotas sitting on lots are not set up this way though, and that adds to the confusion about how they are supposed to work.

 

[Buster57]

I have owned three JDs and three Kubota tractors. I look at both brands and NH every time I buy a new tractor, which is about every three years.

The new "B" series has promise to those who live on a steep hill and need both PTO and gross HP. I am looking for that same ratio ideally with about 30 at the PTO. No one makes one presently.

 

[bandit67]

As much as I'd like Position Control, and said I wouldn't buy anything without it after having very little control with my subcompact's 3ph, I didn't mind the 1/4 inching valve on a B7800 that I rented for a day.

It had a box blade, and I maybe only used it for a total of 2-3 hours spread out throughout the day, but it seemed that if I were to get a machine with the 1/4 inching valve, I could learn to utilize it pretty well. It may not compare to Position Control, but it actually wasn't that bad, even in such a small amount of time with it. That's when I started giving the B7800 more consideration, so I obviously will also give the B2920 serious consideration. If I decide I really want the position control, then I'll have to go for the B3030.

And I know by first hand experience that Kubota and CNH understate their lift capacities by a pretty significant amount, and have heard from quite a few TBN members that JD does the same. All of this is in the name of safety and trying to keep from being sued constantly by careless, not-too-bright operators. It would be interesting to know if Kioti, for example, also understates their capacities, or if they push the stated capacities to the limits in an attempt to increase sales, since they have such a long way to go to catch up to Kubota, JD, & CNH.

Not trying to start any trouble, but although weight is good for dirt work, I'd venture to guess that Kioti hasn't purposely decided to focus on heavier equipment just for that reason, but more because they do not have the manufacturing capabilities at this point to produce a lighter small machine with higher quality steel that is just as strong, but significantly lighter than iron. Based on what I've seen out of Kioti, I think their equipment is way overpriced for what you get. And I really hate the ridiculous amount of cantilever that their backhoes have - they sit way too far off the back of the machines. Sorry, but that comes from using slightly inferior steel - you need more of it to get the strength of a higher quality steel, so they end up with this huge mass hanging off the back of the machine. That's something that I have to take into consideration on a property with a lot of slopes and a bunch of trees to maneuver around.

 

[IslandTractor]

Folks, I will reiterate that I'm not trying to start a color war. I'm just being critical of what Kubota did not bother doing in their latest revision of the B series. I still think they are great tractors (assuming all the changes are improvements over the existing excellent B's).

To address a few points above:

Quarter inching is not as convenient as position control and to my knowledge Kubota is about the only company that still uses it. They use it only on the B series standard tractors and do so mostly to give people who want it a need to buy up to the B series lux tractors or Ls. Of course it works but position control works better or Kubota wouldn't have put it on the lux B series and every other higher grade tractor they sell.

Kioti and Mahindra have stronger loaders in the sub 30hp CUTs. Chuck mentioned that there is nothing the CK20 can do that the B3030 cannot do. I agree. However the CK20 is a 22hp tractor and the B3030 is a substantially more expensive 30hp tractor. In fact the loader capacities for the CK20 and the B3030 are about the same. Maybe Kubota cannot put a stronger loader on the 23 and 26hp models because the front axle isn't strong enough. There are some trade offs to having the B's be as light as they are.

Suspension seat: sure, nobody had suspension seats on tractors until fairly recently. Once you try one you'll never go back. There are a fair number of complaints about the B series seat comfort/position. Check out the Kioti forum to see if anyone complains about the CK suspension seat. The only complaints you'll see are from pre2005 model year owners who find out it would cost them $600 to upgrade.

These items are areas that Kubota could easily have upgraded the standard B line but didn't. It doesn't mean that the new B's aren't great tractors and I am sure they will sell a bunch of them especially to those for whom finish mowing is the main chore. My critique was aimed more at showing what Kubota did not do that could have put the competition in a tough spot. I don't think Kioti or Mahindra are going to be hurt by this latest Kubota update. Kubota had the opportunity to leapfrog the competition and instead settled on a mostly cosmetic upgrade (notable exception is the 3 range hydro).