New "B" series catalog..

[IslandTractor]

"I guess they know their market however and that market seems to be light suburban mowing machines on steroids"

Really? The "B" series is by far the #1 tractor in S. Washington and N. Oregon. The B7800 is the #1 selling tractor for it's size. Guess there are a lot of stupid people that work for Microsoft, Boeing and Intel...

Kioti sells less new units then John Deere sells used tracotrs! I respect John Deere, I would rather have a good used John Deere then a new Kioti.

BTW-Kubota outsells John Deere in CUT is Oregon or Washington.

I wasn't trying to start a color war. Besides, the comment that I repeated came from a Kubota dealer when explaining why position control was not necessary on the B class machines. Apparently most B class owners don't use the 3PT hitch anyway but simply have a MMM.

The B's are excellent reliable tractors I was just surprised that when Kubota did a revamp of the whole line that they changed so very little. As noted in my earlier post they did at least one thing that is really good which is to go from two speed to three speed HST. However they didn't up the loader capacity by more than a few pounds, did not fix the dumb quarter inching valve thing, and did not add a suspension seat. They seem to have focused on cosmetics. Maybe that is a smart move in the vein of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I was just surprised that after five or so years since the last update that this was all they did.

Regarding JD, Kubota and Kioti....people have their favorite colors. Kioti is the newer kid on the block and many folks prefer the established brands just like they favored Ford and Chevy over Toyota and Honda thirty years ago. I think anyone looking at the 20-23hp range CUT will find that JD and Kubota offerings are excellent and are focused or opitimzed for mowing with MMM. The Kioti CK20 is heavier, with stronger FEL and has some very nice features missing on the other entry level tractors...try a suspension seat sometime and you'll see what I mean. All these Asian made tractors are good reliable machines but they are aimed at different niches. Performance wise Kioti gets more competition from Mahindra on "utility" tractor grounds than from green or the other orange. I stand behind the notion that the CK20 stands out as a utility tractor in this group while the JD and B series stand out as mowing machines. The Kioti can mow and the JDs and B series can clearly accomplish utility tractor tasks, my point is just that each excels on different sides of that dicotomy.

 

[bxowner]

I'm just going to say this - knowing that it won't be popular. But I find that most people on this site are respectful of others' opinions and don't disregard a comment simply because of "color."

Kubota lost my business over lack of position control on the 24hp "B" series. Plain and simple. I was all set to finance a B7610, having been absolutely thrilled with my BX1500. I moved, though, and have to work on an undeveloped lot. I went to the John Deere dealer to simply satisfy my assumption that the comparable model was overpriced... boy was I surprised. The JD 2320 not only offered position control, but plenty of "modern" details that really impressed me: drive-over mid mower deck, one piece hood that lifted easily and exposed the entire engine, a loader that can be disconnected by simply lifting two levers from the operator's seat (of course hydraulics require getting off the tractor - but that is true of all tractors, for now). It also solved one of life's biggest conundrums... split brakes that can be operated by one foot while the other controls the hydro drive!

Price difference? $188.00.

To me, there's no explanation or excuse for not offering position control on the latest redesign.

Now, for the record, life on the other side of the fence isn't perfect. The lack of a 3-range hydro on the 2320 is driving me nutty. I've just run into so many situations where 'high' is too much and 'low' is not enough... and there'd be nothing better than 2 or 3 more hp. But then I'd be in a B2630 or B3030!

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

BTW-Kubota outsells John Deere in CUT is Oregon or Washington.

Its about 2-1 under 100hp nationwide, under 50hp I am sure its higher still.

 

[MacTractor]

Does anyone know when these models will hit the streets?

Cheers,

 

[DmansPadge]

To me, there's no explanation or excuse for not offering position control on the latest redesign.

I don't understand everybodys problem with the 1/4 inching valve. I'm not sure if many of the people who comment on it have ever even used it. Somebody in a thread a while back was under the assumtion that you had to lower and raise the 3pt a 1/4 inch at a time all the time! So just to lift an attachment for transport of whatever you would have to move the lever 50 times (or however many times it would take).... not even realizing that you can lift or lower all at once if you want to.... and that was one of the posters reasons for not liking it. It is obvious that he never used it since that is clearly not how it works. Ohh well... it works fine for me.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Mactractor.. A dealer told me yesterday "any minute now", and other dealers have said March, or April. I know dealers have their orders in, but seem to be still a little unclear about pricing. The latest I have heard on that is that prices will remain about what they were.

Islandtractor... I started this thread to get comments, both pro, and con about the new models due to arrive soon. I have to admit that the slightly sarcastic tone of your first response ruffled my feathers some, but I had no intention of starting a color war with my response. What I did want to encourage with that response was that folks do some research before responding, and not try to make points by throwing comments in that tone at other's choices. Tractors are a big investment, and name calling doesn't buy one friends. I support your CK20 choice, and have stated that, but that tractor will do absolutely nothing that a B3030 won't do. Right now I am looking seriously at Kubota, and John Deere tractors, and with a little less excitement at both Kioti, and Mahindra tractors, so I'm about as color blind as they come. Having said that, I have to admit that I am a little disappointed not to see position control, etc. on the new models. Kubota is making a point of stating that these are "Standard Tractors", and obviously is keeping some features for their Premium B2630, and B3030 tractors. If you want those features in a B sized tractor they are available. Suspension seats are not available on any B series, but with just something over 2000 hours on tractors on my little 13 acres, I don't really need one. Nice mid mount mowers, front mounted snowblowers, and blades, etc. are also availabe, and are important to many. Kubota has a great reputation with their small B sized tractors, and I'm sure they aren't anxious to mess with that success too much. With more choices available in the market place today, they will lose some customers who seek things like position control in a tractor that size, and for that price point. Lifting capacity, both with the loader, and 3pt hitch are certainly available in the Kubota B series line to match anything available in that weight range, and with a tighter turning radius, etc, than most. Three point capacity, especially exceeds the competition, and that can be important for people more intersted in safely lifting pallets of pellets, firewood, or stone, etc. than in showing lack of good judgement by seeing how high in the air they can take photos of it.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Dmanspage... I agree that there is much misunderstanding about the Kubota 1/4 inching. There are also some issues from users that feel the system just doesn't work. I have been on a lot of Kubotas with this feature, and have found that many are not set up properly by dealers, and thus don't function as intended........ as I understand it anyway. It is my understanding (perhaps wrong) that when pushed to the 1/4 inching stop in either direction, and released, the lift lever will return to the center / neutral position by itself. This gives you a quick, and repeatable small adjustment feature. Gross adjustment is made by moving the lever to the steady lift / lower position, and fine adjustment is made with the 1/4 inching stops. I have adjusted the stops to make this work correctly on a couple of tractors, and find it works pretty well. Many Kubotas sitting on lots are not set up this way though, and that adds to the confusion about how they are supposed to work.

 

[Buster57]

I have owned three JDs and three Kubota tractors. I look at both brands and NH every time I buy a new tractor, which is about every three years.

The new "B" series has promise to those who live on a steep hill and need both PTO and gross HP. I am looking for that same ratio ideally with about 30 at the PTO. No one makes one presently.

 

[bandit67]

As much as I'd like Position Control, and said I wouldn't buy anything without it after having very little control with my subcompact's 3ph, I didn't mind the 1/4 inching valve on a B7800 that I rented for a day.

It had a box blade, and I maybe only used it for a total of 2-3 hours spread out throughout the day, but it seemed that if I were to get a machine with the 1/4 inching valve, I could learn to utilize it pretty well. It may not compare to Position Control, but it actually wasn't that bad, even in such a small amount of time with it. That's when I started giving the B7800 more consideration, so I obviously will also give the B2920 serious consideration. If I decide I really want the position control, then I'll have to go for the B3030.

And I know by first hand experience that Kubota and CNH understate their lift capacities by a pretty significant amount, and have heard from quite a few TBN members that JD does the same. All of this is in the name of safety and trying to keep from being sued constantly by careless, not-too-bright operators. It would be interesting to know if Kioti, for example, also understates their capacities, or if they push the stated capacities to the limits in an attempt to increase sales, since they have such a long way to go to catch up to Kubota, JD, & CNH.

Not trying to start any trouble, but although weight is good for dirt work, I'd venture to guess that Kioti hasn't purposely decided to focus on heavier equipment just for that reason, but more because they do not have the manufacturing capabilities at this point to produce a lighter small machine with higher quality steel that is just as strong, but significantly lighter than iron. Based on what I've seen out of Kioti, I think their equipment is way overpriced for what you get. And I really hate the ridiculous amount of cantilever that their backhoes have - they sit way too far off the back of the machines. Sorry, but that comes from using slightly inferior steel - you need more of it to get the strength of a higher quality steel, so they end up with this huge mass hanging off the back of the machine. That's something that I have to take into consideration on a property with a lot of slopes and a bunch of trees to maneuver around.

 

[IslandTractor]

Folks, I will reiterate that I'm not trying to start a color war. I'm just being critical of what Kubota did not bother doing in their latest revision of the B series. I still think they are great tractors (assuming all the changes are improvements over the existing excellent B's).

To address a few points above:

Quarter inching is not as convenient as position control and to my knowledge Kubota is about the only company that still uses it. They use it only on the B series standard tractors and do so mostly to give people who want it a need to buy up to the B series lux tractors or Ls. Of course it works but position control works better or Kubota wouldn't have put it on the lux B series and every other higher grade tractor they sell.

Kioti and Mahindra have stronger loaders in the sub 30hp CUTs. Chuck mentioned that there is nothing the CK20 can do that the B3030 cannot do. I agree. However the CK20 is a 22hp tractor and the B3030 is a substantially more expensive 30hp tractor. In fact the loader capacities for the CK20 and the B3030 are about the same. Maybe Kubota cannot put a stronger loader on the 23 and 26hp models because the front axle isn't strong enough. There are some trade offs to having the B's be as light as they are.

Suspension seat: sure, nobody had suspension seats on tractors until fairly recently. Once you try one you'll never go back. There are a fair number of complaints about the B series seat comfort/position. Check out the Kioti forum to see if anyone complains about the CK suspension seat. The only complaints you'll see are from pre2005 model year owners who find out it would cost them $600 to upgrade.

These items are areas that Kubota could easily have upgraded the standard B line but didn't. It doesn't mean that the new B's aren't great tractors and I am sure they will sell a bunch of them especially to those for whom finish mowing is the main chore. My critique was aimed more at showing what Kubota did not do that could have put the competition in a tough spot. I don't think Kioti or Mahindra are going to be hurt by this latest Kubota update. Kubota had the opportunity to leapfrog the competition and instead settled on a mostly cosmetic upgrade (notable exception is the 3 range hydro).

 

[IslandTractor]

Not trying to start any trouble, but although weight is good for dirt work, I'd venture to guess that Kioti hasn't purposely decided to focus on heavier equipment just for that reason, but more because they do not have the manufacturing capabilities at this point to produce a lighter small machine with higher quality steel that is just as strong, but significantly lighter than iron. Based on what I've seen out of Kioti, I think their equipment is way overpriced for what you get. And I really hate the ridiculous amount of cantilever that their backhoes have - they sit way too far off the back of the machines. Sorry, but that comes from using slightly inferior steel - you need more of it to get the strength of a higher quality steel, so they end up with this huge mass hanging off the back of the machine. That's something that I have to take into consideration on a property with a lot of slopes and a bunch of trees to maneuver around.

I don't know if you have any basis for your suspicion that the heavier tractors like Kioti and Mahindra use inferior steel. If you are building a tractor to mow lawns you build it light. If you are building a CUT that has more general uses including ground engagement there is no reason to build it light as weight can be an advantage. Korean and Indian steel companies today are amongst the biggest and most modern in the world. Your attitude towards quality steel may be about 30 years out of date. I doubt seriously there is any difference in available materials that forced the designers to build heavy.

I've had a Kioti backhoe and now have a Woods. They seem about the same to me in construction and performance so maybe the US steel companies are also incapable of building with high quality steel.

 

[ovrszd]

I make no claims to be a Kubota tractor expert. I've only owned one, my current B2910. But I read every new bit of information I can find about CUTs. What aggravates me about the latest Kubota lineup is it appears to be more fluff than substance.

When my 2910 was built in 2001 it came standard with position control, extendable arms, mechanical cruise control, 3 speed hydro, true power steering, suspension seat, tilt/telescoping steering wheel, clutch engaged PTO and an excellent HP/Weight ratio. I couldn't be more happy. Each time Kubota announces a new model in this tractor range, I am more happy with mine.

It will be a sad day when I finally have to retire the 2910. Fortunately, barring some catastrophic event, that day is a long ways off. Kubota offers nothing that replaces all of those features in one tractor today, remotely close to the price of a 2910. Hopefully when my day comes to buy another tractor, they will have awakened and returned to the days that made them a quality tractor manufactorer by producing something that can compete with the old 2910.

 

[bandit67]

Your 2910 was replaced with the B3030. Capacities & power were increased slightly. I think the only issue may be how much of a price increase that replacement cost the customers, but I can't comment for sure since I never priced a 2910 back then. But I don't hear too many complaints from B3030 owners - only that there is no horn. They have all the other features of the old 2_10's.

The new 'standard' B's are not replacements for the old 2410, 2710, or 2910 - those were replaced by only 2 models,the B2630 & B3030. The new B2320, 2620, & 2920 replace the old 'standard' 7410, 7510, & 7610, and as Kubota does with their replacements, updated the power and capacities on the new models. Some features were updated, such as to a new 3 range hydro, but the 3pt hitch was not updated to PC - you want that, get the deluxe B's.
Keep in mind that JD's deluxe tractors in this category are the 2320 & 2520 (there is no 30hp machine yet), and although those have position control, they only have a 2 range hydro, so they fall between Kubota's new standard B's and the deluxe B's.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Farmers often have many tractors, and have different ones for jobs that the particular tractor does well. Most owners, on the other hand, face the opposite challenge, that of finding one tractor that does as many things well as possible. All such tractors are some kind of compromise, and it is up to the individual to find the best compromise for his own uses. That process is difficult as is evidenced by the length of time it takes many to choose, and the difficulties they go through with that choice. Kubota recognized this area that wasn't being addressed before other manufacturers did, and has made lots of money in the process. The B series tractors are well matched in size, manuverability, and power for the various tasks that a small land owner might face. Their lift capacities, and hp are well matched for their footprint size, and weight. Their weights are well matched for their size, and are gentle on all land, not just lawns. They are extremely versitile tractors, and are perhaps better matched with the available proprietory implements, (snowblowers, front blades, mower decks, front brooms, etc.) than any other brand of tractor in that size range. That being true, they serve more needs than others address. I have some disappointments in the new B series too, but they are somewhat different from what I've been hearing here. I was hoping to see a factory QC loader bucket like the small JD's for lightweight forks, and perhaps a small strong bucket for digging, and a larger one for snow, and bark mulch, etc. Loaders are for picking things up, and the more odd shaped things we can handle the better. I was hoping that Kubota would introduce an intergrated backhoe, and they did. Yes, islandtractor, I am pleased that the new mower deck is suspended, drive over, and easily adjusted for depth of cut, though I am one that might never mount a mower, I am over 60, and appreciate that option since 300 lb+ mower decks aren't as much fun to push around as they used to be. Yes, position control would be nice, but 1/4 inching is adequate if it translates into an economical tractor. I think the seats, if as nice as the new one for the exisiting B's will be fine since I am on my tractor for a few hours at most any one time. I don't feel that the Kubota B series are lawnmowers since I suspect that there are thousands more of them in use that have never seen a mmm than there are other model tractors in existance. That they serve very well in that function, and are available with well designed mower decks is a plus, and only adds to their versitility. That is not the task they were designed for as is obvious by the many z-turn mowers, 4 wheel steer riders, etc. that are much better suited to that task, and Kubota is a force in that market too. Most companies look at the market to see what there is that they can compete with, Kubota looked at the market, and saw what wasn't there, and for that I, for one, am grateful. I've been holding off on my new tractor purchase for some time, partly to see what this new series would bring. I had hoped for a little more than was delivered I think, but ATI, and others will address the loader QC ( isn't it great how a free market works sometimes?), and the backhoe does look easier to mount, and store, and it is very close coupled to the tractor which is a good thing in my eyes. The longer wheelbase hopefully will give a little more legroom in the operator area, etc. I like the new loader control lever location though Kubota is late to the party with that. I am much more concerned with how well the available transmission ranges suit my needs than how many there are. If one range is useless on my land, it doesn't really count! All in all, I guess I am slightly disappointed after waiting all this time, but perhaps my expectations were not realistic. I think, given the true cost of ownership over a period of years, considering purchase price, cost, ease, and time down for maintenance / parts, minus the selling price of the used tractor, that even the larger B series, and JD 2000 series are cheaper to own than other brands, and will probably stay with them.

 

[Elsie71]

The new tractors look great. Two of the things I always wished my B7100HST had was a completely separate engagement of the rear and mid PTO and a separate lift for the mower, independent of the 3 pt. hitch. I was able to put a cylinder on the tractor to lift the mower by itself, but I half to take off the mower or unhook the PTO shaft to run anything at high speed on the rear PTO. Does anyone know yet if these features are available on the new tractors, or they still like my old 7100. For that matter, is the rear and mid PTO operation on a B7510/7610 independent of one another?

Someone mentioned that the new tractors still have a transmission driven PTO. That is not a problem with a hydrostatic drive tractor that has a clutch. Essentially it works the same as a live PTO and does not stop when you stop the tractor.

I see that the new mowers for these tractors are all suspended. This might be all right, but I always thought my ground engaging mower did a much nicer job because it followed the ground contour. The only downside was that it wasn't as easy to adjust the mowing height, and there was a lot of wear on the gauge wheels, especially if you didn't grease them as often as you probably should.

I think the included hydraulic control valve would be nice, but is it really standard if you can delete it for a reduced price?

The position control 3 pt. would be nice, but I suppose it would add to the cost. If I recall correctly, I looked a few years ago at a B7200, and I think all the parts from it would have fit on my 7200 to make it position control. Also, the B7510 narrow version has position control, so I would assume that one could put those parts on a regular B7510 or a B7610. The cost, however, might be prohibitive. Perhaps they would also work on the new models???

 

[bxowner]

Every manufacturer does things that don't make sense - or at least doesn't make sense to this consumer. Take Jeep. They've had the opportunity to offer a simple pickup for years, but continue to tease with prototypes that don't get built. Home Depot stocks 11 different magnetic cabinet hinge mechanisms. All in brown and unpainted steel. Only one in white. You can buy energy efficient lightbulbs around here in 25, 40, 75 and 100 watts. Not 60.

Again, no offense. But how hard is it to offer a 3-pt-hitch lever with a simple thumb-wheel stopper?! (also known as position control). Total cost: $3.27. This weekend warrior needs his 72" rear blade to drop to "2.5" each and every time to grade a level lawn. Since he can't do it all in one weekend, he'll have to return to the project over several weekends in a row. Quarter-inching would drive him crazy. Yes he could do it, but his mind is elsewhere - and that darn thumb-wheel stopper just makes it so easy.

I sound like Andy Rooney.

 

[ovrszd]

Your 2910 was replaced with the B3030. Capacities & power were increased slightly. I think the only issue may be how much of a price increase that replacement cost the customers, but I can't comment for sure since I never priced a 2910 back then. But I don't hear too many complaints from B3030 owners - only that there is no horn. They have all the other features of the old 2_10's.


I lost track of the number of B3030 owners on here that complained about the seat. Most even went so far as to look for an aftermarket seat to fix the problem. Lawn King makes his living with his 3030 and hated his seat.

The 3030 is a great machine. But once again Kubota spent most of it's focus on cosmetics with little attention to retaining all of the features it had with the 2910. They gave up the clutch, suspension seat, telescoping steering wheel and true power steering. Hmmmmmm. Was their primary concern customer care or cosmetics and profit.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Not on the last major change, but on the one before that, Toyota took 30% of the parts out of the Camry. In the world of manufacturing, Toyota has become the worshiped business model, and most successful manufacturing companies, and those that want to be successful are jumping on the "lean manufacturing / Toyota" model. Unfortunately, like many laws, the letter of the model is being implemented, but not always the intent, or the understanding of how to make it work. In some cases, new product feature implementation boils down to a graph. On one side you have the features desired by customers, or thought to be desired by customers, and on the other you have the cost / difficulty of implementation. Where the lines cross determines the features that are actually implemented in the new product. The other force at work here is the perceived cost of a feature. Some person at a computer will look at a seat, and say the function is thus, and so all these features are not necessary, but add cost. Unfortunately, the end user / customer is often perceived as being someone that won't know the difference. As consumers, we have the power to change that of course. The most effective way I know is to write letters / emails to the company that are nice, but explain which features affect your BUYING decision. Trust me, if Kubota thinks you won't buy a tractor that doesn't have position control, they will put position control on all their tractors, but they have to know that first. Of course not buying things with features we don't like works too, but sure limits the tools we can have. I base that on my many years of experience in a company that manufactured consumer products (firearms), and being a part of the new product introduction team. Unfortunately, in many cases, the people designing the products today, and making those decisions rarely have any experience with the end product........ and so they make decisions based on other criteria.
All manufacturers should have a place on their web site to make those buying criteria known. I have sent those emails to both Kubota, and JD. Kubota sent a reply stating that those concerns were forwarded to the development team of the product in question......

 

[bandit67]

I lost track of the number of B3030 owners on here that complained about the seat. Most even went so far as to look for an aftermarket seat to fix the problem. Lawn King makes his living with his 3030 and hated his seat.

The 3030 is a great machine. But once again Kubota spent most of it's focus on cosmetics with little attention to retaining all of the features it had with the 2910. They gave up the clutch, suspension seat, telescoping steering wheel and true power steering. Hmmmmmm. Was their primary concern customer care or cosmetics and profit.

OK, I agree with the B3030 seat issue, but they did fix that problem for most customers - I guess I understand how deleting a true suspension seat would save a ton of $$ for the mfr. I've never had one, so I don't know what I'm missing. These newer tractors are a lot more comfortable and easy to drive than the old Ferguson I ran years ago. I don't know how the clutch would be necessary on the B3030, since it is hydro and has an independent pto. Telescoping steering wheel - I can do without that as long as I get a tilt wheel. What do you mean by true power steering - isn't the B3030's steering wheel a no-effort fingertip turn lock-to-lock, even when not moving? - the BX's do that, and so do many other subcompacts and compacts.

Unfortunately, there doesn't exist what I would consider my ideal machine, and I'm sure the majority feels the same way. That's the way it is in the world of mass-production. You always seem to have to settle for something that comes closest to what you have in your mind.

Take my diesel pickup for example - it has some pretty impressive transmission programming on my custom burned chip, and anyone who drives or rides in it is blown away by how much better it feels than their factory tranny programming. But I still find myself wanting to further refine the programming for the countless different driving scenarios I encounter, and unless I spring for the chip burning hardware and software, I have to settle, even though my truck runs better than many of the Superduties on the road.

 

[Buster57]

I upgraded to the new seat on the B7800 but I really do not understand what the big dead was? The old seat was OK. Heck, the Grand "L" came with a seat having staples in the back that were "pre-rusted". I was not happy about that and told the factory that if it was the computer industry it would be a design "QAN". But I never had an issue with the "old B-series" seat. I must be missing something?
I am 5'11" 200 so maybe they designed the old seat for some one of average height and overweight?