New to me TC29D cranks & won’t start

[LouNY]

So a basic block looks to be $4600

 

[CalienteJohn]

I mentioned condensation in fuel lines in a previous post. My BTDT with TCs is that there is a spill cup with a drain hose around the filler and under the hood. Tree duff can clog the drain and rain water will fill the cup above the rim of the cap.

This will by thermal expansion of air/vapor in the tank to siphon that water into the tank where it will settle as expected. I've had to thaw lines to clear them twice. (not tarped in Winter back then, Doh!) My prevention is to remove the cup (1) and/or close the hood on a rag or bag (another 1) to overlap the cup accordingly & keep detritus or water from building up in it.

Prior storage can have as much effect as prior maintenance on how quickly a long-parked tractor starts up, how well it runs, or whether it needs serious work. (o/haul. short block, etc)

btw, while my manuals are for the newer DAs the wiring is pretty much the same, as are most of the mechanicals. Did we ask what the hours are or which FEL? (7308?)

I drained the full tank that was in the tractor with the thought of moisture in mind. I will remove the cup and cover with a rubber floor mat or something of the like for storage.

Copy that on the manuals thank you for the offer! Hour meter only reads 1136 or something low like that.

Front end loader decals are painted over but the controls say it’s a yanmar and looks to be a nice one but I’m used to older tractors 90’s and older vintage though…

 

[D&D]

I drained the full tank that was in the tractor with the thought of moisture in mind. I will remove the cup and cover with a rubber floor mat or something of the like for storage.

Copy that on the manuals thank you for the offer! Hour meter only reads 1136 or something low like that.

Front end loader decals are painted over but the controls say it’s a yanmar and looks to be a nice one but I’m used to older tractors 90’s and older vintage though…

If this were me, I would use oldgrind‘s advise coupled with the pumpguysc. You bled the tank, now bleed the rest out to the injectors. Then do a cheap injector test to see if they spray or squirt. Then I would load test the battery. If the amps are low, the starter won’t spin fast enough and you will get a low compression reading.

 

[Bansil]

Not much to add but I have always removed all plugs or glow plugs before testing so engine spins faster and no chance of starting.

Rings could be..."washed" that's the term I know and can be glassed from no load at break-in of new engine or grit has done the same.

Do you have a bore scope? To look for cylinder scratches or piston carbon buildup?

Maybe putting 1/3 of a cup of marvel mystery oil in each cylinders, let sit 24 hrs and turn engine over 1/2 a revolution may help to unstuck the rings?

Maybe stuck valve or broken spring?

The valve seats may be worn and leaking?

Just spitting ideas..good luck

 

[CalienteJohn]

Oil smells ok to a neighbor and myself. No significant diesel smell to it

I’m thinking new rings at least as most are mentioning.

Rings can be replaced without “splitting the tractor”?

CAN rings be replaced by a home mechanic (me) with good assistance from online (YouTube and all of you great people!)

I see someone mentioned a basic block for near $5k

Rings and a head gasket will be a much more reasonable rout right??

So at this point I’m starting some good cleaning and I got the front bucket off to make it easier to move tractor into our small shop

Anyone have a good YouTube video they’d recommend towards rings or rebuilding or anything strongly recommended? I’ve had valve cover and head off of another tractor so I’ve been at least to piston heads on another tractor and have a basic understanding of what to do. I watch motortrend channel haha

 

[the old grind]

To do rings you'd remove the head, drop the oil pan, unbolt the rod caps (while fussing about order/orientation of those and bearings) and pull the pistons out the top. No need to split.

So as for DIY, save big bucks if you can find the right kit (enuf vs o/haul) and don't mind making a fair mess while putting something back together hospital-clean.

Anyway I bet you could do that.

 

[MTGreen]

Oil smells ok to a neighbor and myself. No significant diesel smell to it

I’m thinking new rings at least as most are mentioning.

Rings can be replaced without “splitting the tractor”?

CAN rings be replaced by a home mechanic (me) with good assistance from online (YouTube and all of you great people!)

I see someone mentioned a basic block for near $5k

Rings and a head gasket will be a much more reasonable rout right??

So at this point I’m starting some good cleaning and I got the front bucket off to make it easier to move tractor into our small shop

Anyone have a good YouTube video they’d recommend towards rings or rebuilding or anything strongly recommended? I’ve had valve cover and head off of another tractor so I’ve been at least to piston heads on another tractor and have a basic understanding of what to do. I watch motortrend channel haha

If you've pulled a head off you can certainly do the job. You'll need a torque wrench and a ring compressor or appropriately sized band clamp.
You'll need to buy at minimum a ring set (obviously), a head gasket, an oil pan gasket, a tube of assembly lube, possibly intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, and you can consider new rod bearings but at 1100hrs that's probably not necessary so long as you are **** about locations and orientations of ALL individual parts.
Suggest you do one piston at a time to keep everything straight

 

[nyone]

Smell the oil from the dipstick. If it smells like diesel either that seal is leaking or it's been cranked for a long time with rings not sealing

This smell the oil test dosnt really work. Every engine I have ever smelled the oil on smelled a bit like the fuel it burned.

Since your cylinders are all in the same range and all low I would put a second gauge on and re test.

Also unless your going to do a leak down test your just guessing on what parts it needs. Yes you may put rings in it and it will start but that dosnt really mean you have fixed it.

 

[thepumpguysc]

IDK if your aware of it or not but u have to pay attention which way the pistons go in..
Some will have an arrow on them, but u still have to know which way the arrow goes..
Also, mark your rod and rod caps 1/1, 2/2, 3/3..
U might wanna buy some “plasti-gauge”., to get the correct rod bearings..
(Google it)
Good luck

 

[CalienteJohn]

If you've pulled a head off you can certainly do the job. You'll need a torque wrench and a ring compressor or appropriately sized band clamp.
You'll need to buy at minimum a ring set (obviously), a head gasket, an oil pan gasket, a tube of assembly lube, possibly intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, and you can consider new rod bearings but at 1100hrs that's probably not necessary so long as you are **** about locations and orientations of ALL individual parts.
Suggest you do one piston at a time to keep everything straight

ok I like that encouragement. I’ve got a torque wrench. WHAT SIZE & TYPE RING COMPRESSOR should I buy?? 3” amazon special or ?

Should I be investigating a kit or buy parts needed individually (rings, head and oil pan gaskets, etc etc)

When you say locations and orientations of all individual parts you mean orientation of each piston and cap itself in relation to the block correct? Are there more parts?

Before major work I will compression test again WITH ALL GPS removed and I’ll look into another gauge to re test (3 hour trip to parts store round trip)

After re testing I will soak with some type F ATF fluid for old fords since I have some already on hand.

Battery load tests fine

I bled injectors and lines with fresh fuel after flushing tank a few days ago. Will flip lines around and hook up fuel injectors externally to test as explained if it is necessary.

No bore scope on hand

I’ll read some more responses and post back
THANK YOU FOR THE AMAZING HELP EVERYONE!!!

 

[CalienteJohn]

IDK if your aware of it or not but u have to pay attention which way the pistons go in..
Some will have an arrow on them, but u still have to know which way the arrow goes..
Also, mark your rod and rod caps 1/1, 2/2, 3/3..
U might wanna buy some “plasti-gauge”., to get the correct rod bearings..
(Google it)
Good luck

How do you typically keep things oriented do you mark with a punch with dots or ??

Any helpful tricks hints or tips at all are greatly appreciated.

I will google the plasti-gauge and I will also google the PFR injector pump I have you were explaining to me.

Also WHATS the consensus on a leak down test? Is this a kit I can rent from parts store also? If it’s necessary to be certain I will look into doing it
Thank you everyone for your knowledge, time and experience

 

[MTGreen]

Keep the pistons, rod caps, and rod bearing halves (if re-using) in exact same position and orientation as you removed them. You can use a permanent (not standard type) sharpie or a pin punch -just don't punch the bearing halves.

Ring compressors are fairly cheap and just need to adjust to the diameter of your piston and a little larger.

You may need a gizmo called a ridge reamer to scrape the bit of carbon deposit around the top of the bore to get the pistons popped out.

A ball hone for your cylinders is usually a good idea after they have been well cleaned, inspected, and measured. Check utube here

Compression rings may need to have end clearance adjusted. You put the ring in the bore without the piston and make sure it's parallel to the head gasket sealing surface (use the face of the piston to push it in a bit so it squares it up), then measure the gap between the ends of the ring using a feeler gauge. You may have to carefully file the ends to get that end gap in spec for you engine.

Rings go on the piston in a very specific order and orientation and the ring end gaps have to be clocked in a specific orientation relative to each other. The manual will specify all of this. If you don't have one I imagine one of the fine folks on here would share the relevant sections.

IMO a leak down test is helpful in certain situations but here you already will need to pull the pistons so I don't see how it will be that helpful here.

Also IMO at 1100 hours, I don't think plastigauge is going to be that helpful. It measures clearance between the rod journals on the crank and the rod bearings to determine if the rod journals are worn down to the point you need undersized (thicker) rod bearings. At 1100 hours this wear probably has not had time to occur unless the engine was run without oil or you have a spun rod bearing (unlikely) -it will be obvious and you have a bigger problem.

 

[CalienteJohn]

I’m watching YouTube videos with my free time tonight and this weekend. Any good ones people would recommend let me know regarding measuring cylinder removal ring replacement etc

I had the same thought referring to leak down test maybe being un necessary, knowing I have blow by and almost for sure low compression. Will retest once I get another gauge

Shopping list below sufficient or too cheap?
3” cylinder?
Also is a ridge reamer the same as a cylinder hone??

 

[Mud2Money]

Been following this thread. Have you drained the oil and checked for particles ? With as low of hours, you stated it has fuel in the lines , and clean intake. It’s sounding like someone ran it low on oil and smoked that engine maybe. Only way I see all cylinders being that bad.

As stated do a leak down test. Napa , harbor freight etc sell the kits. If it were me I’d be buying a bore scope off Amazon ( I paid $90 for one ) and looking in the glow plug holes if possible. I would drain and screen the oil. With low compression and possibly needing to remove pistons. I would just bite the bullet and pull the pan. I’d be curious to see if it was oil starved.

 

[zzvyb6]

I bought a very similar Ford tractor model under exactly the same circumstances. Turns out the Ford fuel flow lever at the filter in the motor compartment points 90 degrees off of the direction for flow. The fuel was shut off. 2 minutes after I paid the guy, I turned the valve and drove it onto the trailer. Only his wife was mad...

 

[MTGreen]

Also is a ridge reamer the same as a cylinder hone??

No. Ball hone in 2nd pic OR stone type hone in 3rd pic. IMO ball hone is easier to use and less likely to take off too much material.

Example ridge reamer:

Amazon.com

May want to look at the "deck height" spec for your engine before buying one though. If zero or close you don't need one

 

[the old grind]

I suggest rereading post # 72 daily until the job is done as a confidence builder. lol but

 

[CliffordK]

I bought a very similar Ford tractor model under exactly the same circumstances. Turns out the Ford fuel flow lever at the filter in the motor compartment points 90 degrees off of the direction for flow. The fuel was shut off. 2 minutes after I paid the guy, I turned the valve and drove it onto the trailer. Only his wife was mad...

1100 hours, something just isn't adding up (although the hours may not be real).

If you need a ridge reamer and new rings, then you likely will also need new pistons, and honing or boring the cylinders. A big top end job. I'm not saying that isn't the answer, but I wouldn't jump right to that conclusion.

If you go down that path, eventually you'll need to remove the head, and inspect the head, head gasket, valves, and cylinders.

On some vehicles, faults are also noted under the valve cover (tight tappets, bad valves, lifters, etc).

Like @zzvyb6, I just bought a non-running Landini at auction for literally pennies on the dollar. I'm still a bit annoyed. Somebody had cannibalized the battery, dip stick, fuel pump, and alternator. And it only starts with jumping the starter solenoid. The cannibalized fuel pump means the auction house had no chance of getting it started. And the value of the cannibalized parts wasn't that high, just annoying.

In my testing I found the fuel shutoff switch, I thought it was supposed to be parallel with the line, but nope... straight down at 90° from the line (probably my fault). In my case, it would start and run very well for 10 seconds then die. It became obvious when I pulled the fuel line from the fuel pump to the injection pump, and got inconsistent flow.

It also seems to have the shutoff solenoid on the injection pump intermittently working (need to listen for the click when I turn the key, otherwise it absolutely won't start). More diagnostics on that soon.

Thus, a combination of little faults sent the tractor to auction as non-running.

==============

Anyway, on @CalienteJohn's tractor, I'd go back and review all the simple things. Try a leak down test if you wish. Double check that the fuel, ignition circuit, and injection pump are all working. You can even pull an injector and watch it spray when you crank it over if you wish.

Don't believe every test result you see.

Does it sound reasonably normal with compression when cranking it over?

I usually run my glow plugs on my Ford for about 30 seconds. There is a little inline coil that is supposed to glow, but it broke in half, and half of it reconnected in 2008, and it only gives a dull glow after about 30 seconds.

My CAT... it has a little chart on it. But based on temperatures, glow plugs for about 60 seconds, 30 is definitely not enough.

Manual glow plug switch on the Ford and CAT, and I count to myself to 30 or 60.

If you have a place in the intake manifold that you can't melt, blow either a hot hair dryer or heat gun directly into the intake manifold when cranking it over and attempting to start it.

 

[D&D]

1100 hours, something just isn't adding up (although the hours may not be real).


If you have a place in the intake manifold that you can't melt, blow either a hot hair dryer or heat gun directly into the intake manifold when cranking it over and attempting to start it.

I definitely agree that something isn’t adding up. Three sets of rings failing at the same time, with similar test results? What is the expected number 300ish, probably close enough to get it to puff.

 

[D&D]

Been following this thread. Have you drained the oil and checked for particles ? With as low of hours, you stated it has fuel in the lines , and clean intake. It’s sounding like someone ran it low on oil and smoked that engine maybe. Only way I see all cylinders being that bad.

As stated do a leak down test. Napa , harbor freight etc sell the kits. If it were me I’d be buying a bore scope off Amazon ( I paid $90 for one ) and looking in the glow plug holes if possible. I would drain and screen the oil. With low compression and possibly needing to remove pistons. I would just bite the bullet and pull the pan. I’d be curious to see if it was oil starved.

Endoscope cameras can be a tad cheaper and always handy for something.

Amazon.com