O my, I am comfused

[AxleHub]

Yes i can know see it was my technique "bulldozer is not good". So i def will go look a kubota on my next day off.

Also something the has the safe under belly as immseeing alot of pictures of people hitting crap underneath a breaking hoses.

Do they make under belly protection?

Nikko, scuts are shorter in height so of course they are closer to the ground. Some more than others are vulnerable to expensive damage. Kubota has a long history of easy damage from sticks where its underneath fan is very accessible and a goodly sum to repair/replace. So there are several under plate choices for Kubotas. Also many of the other bigger name brands have 3rd party choices for protection plates (a rear plate and even a front plate) as options.

 

[KennyG]

The plastic vs metal is not a game changer for me to be honest Nor is how fancy and ergonomics it is. Im looking for a strong bull per say. Strongest lifting, strongest pto, fastets hydraulics, stuff that means something on my property. Also something the has the safe under belly as immseeing alot of pictures of people hitting crap underneath a breaking hoses.

Do they make under belly protection?

Based on your "wants" I think you would be happier with a "2" series John Deere than a "1" series. That will take you out of the $15K range of course, with accessories. If the cost limit is a hard limit for you, you will probably need to go to what I would call a 2nd tier brand (no offense to those owners). You get more weight and capability for a lower cost but you don't get the brand name, and potentially some of the dealer and industry support. I'm really happy I went with JD and mine has been very capable and reliable. However, if I had been financially limited I probably would have ended up with a lesser known brand.

Also, I think you are right not to worry about the plastic parts. Some of the forum participants are really old school on metal vx. plastic. After 5 years of use, the only signs of wear on my tractor are on the metal parts, not the plastic ones.

 

[AxleHub]

Based on your "wants" I think you would be happier with a "2" series John Deere than a "1" series. That will take you out of the $15K range of course, with accessories. If the cost limit is a hard limit for you, you will probably need to go to what I would call a 2nd tier brand (no offense to those owners). You get more weight and capability for a lower cost but you don't get the brand name, and potentially some of the dealer and industry support. I'm really happy I went with JD and mine has been very capable and reliable. However, if I had been financially limited I probably would have ended up with a lesser known brand.

Also, I think you are right not to worry about the plastic parts. Some of the forum participants are really old school on metal vx. plastic. After 5 years of use, the only signs of wear on my tractor are on the metal parts, not the plastic ones.

Greeting KennyG,

I confess that although I looked at a J.D. I never even test drove it because I wouldn't own one (I like production recognition not name recognition).

However that doesn't mean it might not be good choices for others. Who now makes the J.D. engines in the 1 and 2 series. And who builds the tractors?

I did notice the sales person at the Tractor Central I stopped at was really both quite professionally skilled and helpful.

I also was very confused why J.D. puts their fel valve location where they do . . it seems totally exposed to harm. Any hints what their reasoning is.

 

[gladehound]

On the issue of tractor size... I was just on another thread and someone with a large utility tractor (I think it was around 90 hp) wrote to someone with a smaller utility tractor (55hp and heavy for that hp) that he didn't think the 55hp tractor was big enough to push snow.... This just goes to show that everyone's expectations are different. A shovel can push snow. Obviously any tractor can. It's a matter of how much / how well / how fast and that's where we get into varying expectations. This is why when asking for advice about which tractor to get, you need to be very, very specific about your expectations if you want useful input.

 

[paulfun9]

Don't look at "second tier brands" simply because of budget! I paid cash and would have had no problem paying more for a tractor that was worth more but from everything I looked at no one built a tractor that was worth more just tractors that cost more.

 

[gladehound]

Don't look at "second tier brands" simply because of budget! I paid cash and would have had no problem paying more for a tractor that was worth more but from everything I looked at no one built a tractor that was worth more just tractors that cost more.

I second that notion. I couldn't find a better value regardless of brand. I was willing to pay $10 grand more if the value was there. I was seriously looking at a John Deere but moved away from that due to reliability concerns with that particular model - that brings up another point. Each manufacturer has models with good and bad reputations. So research specific models rather than just going with a manufacturer's reputation.

 

[tman1020]

Yes i can know see it was my technique "bulldozer is not good". So i def will go look a kubota on my next day off. Yes the deere dealer gave a 15,900 out the door h120 loader and the easy off mower so the i dont have to engage the shaft lr whatever he said. The plastic vs metal is not a game changer for me to be honest Nor is how fancy and ergonomics it is. Im looking for a strong bull per say. Strongest lifting, strongest pto, fastets hydraulics, stuff that means something on my property. Also something the has the safe under belly as immseeing alot of pictures of people hitting crap underneath a breaking hoses. Do they make under belly protection?

It doesn't matter what size tractor you get compact subcompact or even larger it's not going to push dirt the same as a bulldozer. They just aren't designed for that. But I don't think that is the main reason you were wanting to purchase a small tractor. It just takes some practice and you'd be amazed at how much work you can do with a small machine. You might want to check out Kioti they are known for being very competitively priced and often one of the heaviest in there segment. They often have higher hydraulic flow rates and lift capacities than the competitors as well. They have a model I believe it is CK 2510 but I'm not positive on that. It is A step above what you've been looking at size wise and should be close in price. It has some very impressive specifications but is not that much physically larger.

 

[4570Man]

It doesn't matter what size tractor you get compact subcompact or even larger it's not going to push dirt the same as a bulldozer. They just aren't designed for that. But I don't think that is the main reason you were wanting to purchase a small tractor. It just takes some practice and you'd be amazed at how much work you can do with a small machine. You might want to check out Kioti they are known for being very competitively priced and often one of the heaviest in there segment. They often have higher hydraulic flow rates and lift capacities than the competitors as well. They have a model I believe it is CK 2510 but I'm not positive on that. It is A step above what you've been looking at size wise and should be close in price. It has some very impressive specifications but is not that much physically larger.

Even a BIG tractor with a blade can't push dirt like big dozer. I borrowed a D3 dozer to grade my driveway. My L3240 against a a D3 dozer was absolutely no contest. It was comparing a small tractor to a wheelbarrow.

 

[s219]

S219, your neighbor's Mahindra max 28 . . . Didn't that just come out in the last 2 years ? I thought I read somewhere they are already replacing it because its Tier 4 situation is DEF and canister rgen required and that has been an issue of cost and inconvenience.

Max 28 was out for a while -- he got his in early 2013 if I remember right. In 2014, Mahindra de-rated the engine and now calls it the Max 26 to stay under Tier 4 Final. It's pretty much the same exact tractor but with less rated HP.

Lastly . . Niko mentioned the jd 1025r he tested and was quoted . . I know 1026r units are considersbly more than his quote and I know what the 1023r is like. What is the differences in a 1025r vs a 1026r ?

The 1026R was the model before the 1025R, and is otherwise identical -- was just de-rated to 25HP (probably for same reasons as Max mentioned above).

 

[k0ua]

As for scooping up material (dirt, gravel etc) it just takes a while for the actions to become automatic. My first attempts at using a FEL many years ago were laughable. I enlisted the aid of my wife when we got our first tractor many years ago, to stand out by the side of the bucket to tell me if I got much of anything in it when I scooped. What a joke. A month later I was moving mountains of dirt. It just takes a little time and practice. And it has nothing to do with the size, as my first tractor was the largest of the 5 tractors I have owned. A true Utility tractor, not a CUT. I later used it to scoop up a whole hilltop and build a berm for a shooting backstop with it. I did that without a toothbar too, but undoubtedly it would have improved its performance. It was also an old 2 stick Prince valve FEL control too. A definite disadvantage compared to a single stick like all modern tractors have now. My point is, while they are not bulldozers, tractors can move a lot of materiel with a skilled operator.

 

[AxleHub]

Max 28 was out for a while -- he got his in early 2013 if I remember right. In 2014, Mahindra de-rated the engine and now calls it the Max 26 to stay under Tier 4 Final. It's pretty much the same exact tractor but with less rated HP.

The 1026R was the model before the 1025R, and is otherwise identical -- was just de-rated to 25HP (probably for same reasons as Max mentioned above).

When you "de rate" . . Does that mean they also "de tune" the engine too. If all it was would be a number change . . . Wouldn't that be called a lie and in violation ? As a recall . . That max28 was a few thousand more than their 25 . . I wonder how that all worked out.

So the j.d. 1025r is newer than the 1026r ?

Then it certainly seems like Nikko got a very cheap bid for a 1025r with drive on mmm deck and fel. As I recall they were more in the 17500 price range.

 

[KennyG]

I confess that although I looked at a J.D. I never even test drove it because I wouldn't own one (I like production recognition not name recognition).

However that doesn't mean it might not be good choices for others. Who now makes the J.D. engines in the 1 and 2 series. And who builds the tractors?

I did notice the sales person at the Tractor Central I stopped at was really both quite professionally skilled and helpful.

I also was very confused why J.D. puts their fel valve location where they do . . it seems totally exposed to harm. Any hints what their reasoning is.

It's kind of dangerous to discuss these "what tractor should I buy" questions since things change in time and are very local with specific dealers. My JD 2320 was built in Japan by Yanmar. JD is an international company and various tractors and engines are built in the US, Japan, India and other locations. Classic multinational approach to get the best value for each specific product. However, they all have the same corporate quality standards.

When I bought (5 years ago) I looked at JD, Kubota and New Holland. The Kubotas seemed about the same price and I didn't like the single pedal HST or the overall feel of the machine. The equivalent New Holland was more expensive and didn't have as good a mower deck. Other people would probably have a different experience. It was a bit of step to get me on a John Deere. Based on my history, I would have much preferred Allis Chalmers or International Harvester, but time moves on.

At the time, if I wanted to drive farther, I could have looked at Jinma and Bobcat. Neither of those dealers exist today. Today I could find Branson, Mahindra and TYM, but they are not really local.

Where is the FEL valve on the new ones? On my 2320 the SCV is inside the frame under the seat. Some people have worried that the FEL connections, under the floor board are exposed, but in five years of beating around, including being buried up to the frame a couple of times, I haven't damaged anything.

 

[gladehound]

Tractors are designed for pushing and pulling. They are frequently used for dozer work in Asia with proper blades. If a tractor doesn't push or pull to your satisfaction, a bigger tractor is needed.

Some FELs are under built and you have to be careful of this. This was not the case on my LB1914, that FEL was weak hydraulically but mighty in structure. A blanket statement that you shouldn't "bulldoze" with a FEL simply is not true. My DS4510HS is the opposite. Mighty in hydraulics but flexes more than I would like. So with this I have to be more careful than with the 1914. This is something to check when you test machines. Push into an unmovable pile with one corner of the bucket and see how much flex you get. Some flex more than others.

As was mentioned by tman, try one of these (see link). You might be able to negotiate in your mower and stay under $15K. It gives you a little more heft but is still nearly the same foot print as a SCUT.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=8478683

 

[AxleHub]

Where is the FEL valve on the new ones? On my 2320 the SCV is inside the frame under the seat. Some people have worried that the FEL connections, under the floor board are exposed, but in five years of beating around, including being buried up to the frame a couple of times, I haven't damaged anything.

Actually I should have said the valve connection for the fel hoses Its located on the far right hand outside under the floor. More importantly it seems to angle to the right side facing the hose connections out.

 

[TJP89]

When you "de rate" . . Does that mean they also "de tune" the engine too. If all it was would be a number change . . . Wouldn't that be called a lie and in violation ? As a recall . . That max28 was a few thousand more than their 25 . . I wonder how that all worked out.

So the j.d. 1025r is newer than the 1026r ?

Then it certainly seems like Nikko got a very cheap bid for a 1025r with drive on mmm deck and fel. As I recall they were more in the 17500 price range.

Axlehub, you should know that what's legal and what's ethical are often two very different things. I was reading about the Volkswagen scandal a few days ago, and it seems that the whole emissions testing and numbers are a complete joke. Even with proper spec, what actually coming out the tailpipe is very different than what the emission sheet shows. Tightening a few bolts and making some adjustments to detune the engine is tame compared to what goes on...and is considered legit.

On price, I'd say that 1025 OTD is a very good price. When I was looking at SCUTs, I think a MMM, tractor and FEL was close to 20K, especially from JD. The 1025 is meant to be the TLB for the 1 series SCUTs, so maybe that accounts for it. But, IMO that's a very good price for that package. Nothing wrong with the 1025 either, and I doubt you'll find a better price. Keep looking though.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

. . . Also something the has the safe under belly as immseeing alot of pictures of people hitting crap underneath a breaking hoses.

Do they make under belly protection?

If you buy a Kubota BX, BXpanded makes their UnderArmor for it. It's about $150 and it's a 10 minute (or less) job to install it. Easy, cheap and effective.

 

[gladehound]

Even a BIG tractor with a blade can't push dirt like big dozer. I borrowed a D3 dozer to grade my driveway. My L3240 against a a D3 dozer was absolutely no contest. It was comparing a small tractor to a wheelbarrow.

How much something can push or pull is directly proportional to it's weight (assuming appropriate gearing).

A D3 at ~30,000 pounds weighs near 10x what an L3240 weighs (tractor only). When comparing to a D3, I would think a BIG tractor would be something at least 30,000 pounds. Pound for pound tractors push and pull about as well as anything. The appropriate comparison to a D3 would be something like an 8XXX series John Deere, which also weighs around 30,000 pounds.

If you want something to push like a 30,000 pound machine, get a 30,000 pound machine.

 

[4570Man]

How much something can push or pull is directly proportional to it's weight (assuming appropriate gearing). A D3 at ~30,000 pounds weighs near 10x what an L3240 weighs (tractor only). When comparing to a D3, I would think a BIG tractor would be something at least 30,000 pounds. Pound for pound tractors push and pull about as well as anything. The appropriate comparison to a D3 would be something like an 8XXX series John Deere, which also weighs around 30,000 pounds. If you want something to push like a 30,000 pound machine, get a 30,000 pound machine.

The D3 was "only" about 4 times heavier. I said big dozer VS a big tractor. I would consider a big dozer to be at least a D8 which is about 80,000 pounds.

 

[gladehound]

The D3 was "only" about 4 times heavier. I said big dozer VS a big tractor. I would consider a big dozer to be at least a D8 which is about 60,000 pounds.

I was simply pointing out that it is the weight and not "bull dozer" vs "tractor" that gives a machine it's ability to push or pull for the benefit of those who may be newer to machines. Sorry that I misunderstood your statement.

 

[4570Man]

I was simply pointing out that it is the weight and not "bull dozer" vs "tractor" that gives a machine it's ability to push or pull for the benefit of those who may be newer to machines. Sorry that I misunderstood your statement.

I know, but if the weight was equal the dozer would still win because of the tracks VS tires. It's amazing how many videos are on YouTube of a large tractor VS a jacked up mud trucks. The tractor weighs 5 times as much with 1/5 the hp, and most people think the truck will win the pull.