Proper way to bind tractor onto trailer?
- Thread starter HarleyBob
- Start date
- Views: 37480
Highbeam
Super Member
"Now... may I ask what the trailer capacity is for "your" trailer and how heavy is your set-up."
My trailer is a 10,400 lb GVWR rated 18' car hauler with two 5200 lb axles and E rated tires. The tractor weighs 4000 lbs without a rear implement and with one roughly 4500. The trailer itself weighs 2500 lbs leaving me 7900 lbs of cargo capacity for the trailer. All of the hitch hardware including the WD hitch and receiver on the truck are rated for 10,000 lbs. The truck itself is just barely within the GCWR, GVWR, and GAWR ratings with the 7000 lb total trailer weight. So bottom line is I could have gotten by with a 7000 lb GVWR car hauler trailer, dime a dozen, but I kicked it up a notch to the 10,000 lb trailer for a safety margin and I am very glad I did. I bought a PJ Trailer, made in Texas, I highly recommend you at least look at them. I couldn't find what I wanted from BigTex.
Just because you only tow a short distance is no reason to reduce your safety devices. The trailer wreck can happen in the first mile of your tow or on the 100th. Don't forget to clean all the loose rocks and debris from the loaded trailer before getting on the road. That junk can damage following cars and get the DOT to try and find something wrong with your setup.
Oh and my truck is a half ton pickup with a 350 V8. It tows the 7000 lbs just fine. Not a speed demon but within ratings and not so slow as to be a safety hazard. I monitor transmission temperature and the factory HD trailering package does very well. Towing MPG is 10-11.
My trailer is a 10,400 lb GVWR rated 18' car hauler with two 5200 lb axles and E rated tires. The tractor weighs 4000 lbs without a rear implement and with one roughly 4500. The trailer itself weighs 2500 lbs leaving me 7900 lbs of cargo capacity for the trailer. All of the hitch hardware including the WD hitch and receiver on the truck are rated for 10,000 lbs. The truck itself is just barely within the GCWR, GVWR, and GAWR ratings with the 7000 lb total trailer weight. So bottom line is I could have gotten by with a 7000 lb GVWR car hauler trailer, dime a dozen, but I kicked it up a notch to the 10,000 lb trailer for a safety margin and I am very glad I did. I bought a PJ Trailer, made in Texas, I highly recommend you at least look at them. I couldn't find what I wanted from BigTex.
Just because you only tow a short distance is no reason to reduce your safety devices. The trailer wreck can happen in the first mile of your tow or on the 100th. Don't forget to clean all the loose rocks and debris from the loaded trailer before getting on the road. That junk can damage following cars and get the DOT to try and find something wrong with your setup.
Oh and my truck is a half ton pickup with a 350 V8. It tows the 7000 lbs just fine. Not a speed demon but within ratings and not so slow as to be a safety hazard. I monitor transmission temperature and the factory HD trailering package does very well. Towing MPG is 10-11.
Dargo
Super Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
- Messages
- 6,011
- Location
- S. IN
- Tractor
- Jinma, Foton, TYM, Belarus, Yanmar, Branson, Montana, Mahindra and maybe some green and orange too.
Hello there. I'm the guy who took the ride of my life this last spring when two "heavy duty" straps broke while tooling along the highway. You can read the old thread for the details, but I was not a believer until I nearly lost it all.
Since then I've spoken with two different structural engineers and a physics professor about what happened. With a bumper pull trailer, you will get a considerable amount of flex in the trailer; i.e. like 6" or more on even the strongest. I've not seen any bumper pull trailer use 16 pound per foot 12" I beams in their construction. Figure whatever bumper pull trailer you have will have flex. Take that flex combined with the weight of your tractor, and the professor told me that it would be flat dangerous and stupid to use two straps on each end if each strap did not have a WLL (working load limit) or at least 3 times the weight of your tractor. Basically, unless you're hauling a small tractor, you won't find straps like that unless you buy the ones that are about 12" wide and 1/2" thick. So, unless you're asking for trouble, I am now convinced 100% that straps are out. Period. No, "ifs".
Being that he showed me on his computer how much flex a 10k bumper pull trailer had with a 4000 pound load on it, and my tractor with implements weighing around 7500 pounds, I immediately bought a much heavier bed over 15k gooseneck trailer. It has full 12" I beams running the entire distance of the trailer and through the goose neck. My trailer alone weighs 5600 pounds. That gives me roughly a 2000 pound cushion when towing. I use 4 made in the U.S. grade 70 chains with 4 made in the U.S. ratcheting binders; one on each corner. Towing has been so much less of an adventure!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif That's exactly the way I want it. Good luck, and please don't use straps. As you can read in the old thread, there was no fraying, abraiding, or cutting to my straps. They simply broke due to trailer flex and the weight of the tractor.
Since then I've spoken with two different structural engineers and a physics professor about what happened. With a bumper pull trailer, you will get a considerable amount of flex in the trailer; i.e. like 6" or more on even the strongest. I've not seen any bumper pull trailer use 16 pound per foot 12" I beams in their construction. Figure whatever bumper pull trailer you have will have flex. Take that flex combined with the weight of your tractor, and the professor told me that it would be flat dangerous and stupid to use two straps on each end if each strap did not have a WLL (working load limit) or at least 3 times the weight of your tractor. Basically, unless you're hauling a small tractor, you won't find straps like that unless you buy the ones that are about 12" wide and 1/2" thick. So, unless you're asking for trouble, I am now convinced 100% that straps are out. Period. No, "ifs".
Being that he showed me on his computer how much flex a 10k bumper pull trailer had with a 4000 pound load on it, and my tractor with implements weighing around 7500 pounds, I immediately bought a much heavier bed over 15k gooseneck trailer. It has full 12" I beams running the entire distance of the trailer and through the goose neck. My trailer alone weighs 5600 pounds. That gives me roughly a 2000 pound cushion when towing. I use 4 made in the U.S. grade 70 chains with 4 made in the U.S. ratcheting binders; one on each corner. Towing has been so much less of an adventure!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif That's exactly the way I want it. Good luck, and please don't use straps. As you can read in the old thread, there was no fraying, abraiding, or cutting to my straps. They simply broke due to trailer flex and the weight of the tractor.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
In addition to the fact that straps can (and will) break, they tend to draw the ire of most DOT inspectors when hauling a wheeled vehicle. Anything riding on inflated rubber tires is, in essence, a live load. Live loads need big ol' honkin' steel chains.
After spending my childhood on dads farm, my entire working carreer around construction, and all my spare time in the last 31 years on my farm, I've come to one conclusion when dealing with equipment FOR ANY PURPOSE. Think OVER-KILL. And not just barely over-kill.
Why do you suppose a military 5-ton truck looks like a civilian 20-ton model? Because that's what it takes to survive under abusive conditions, and LAST for some time.
Trucks, trailers, chains, implements, lawn and garden equipment...........right on down the line. You want it to work CORRECTLY, last a long time, AND BE SAFE, go to extremes. Get the biggest, toughest, gnarliest version available.
After spending my childhood on dads farm, my entire working carreer around construction, and all my spare time in the last 31 years on my farm, I've come to one conclusion when dealing with equipment FOR ANY PURPOSE. Think OVER-KILL. And not just barely over-kill.
Why do you suppose a military 5-ton truck looks like a civilian 20-ton model? Because that's what it takes to survive under abusive conditions, and LAST for some time.
Trucks, trailers, chains, implements, lawn and garden equipment...........right on down the line. You want it to work CORRECTLY, last a long time, AND BE SAFE, go to extremes. Get the biggest, toughest, gnarliest version available.
HBob,
Here's a not very good pic of how the front is chained. The tool on the trailer blocks your view, but the chain goes through a clevis attached to the grill guard and crosses, so the tractor can't easily slide left or right.
The rear chain goes through a clevis on the drawbar and crosses (without a binder).
Disclaimer: This setup works for me. I believe it is legal in my state. Many would argue that since I don't have FOUR chains and four binders, I'm not legal. As I've stated previously, if I were going coast to coast, I might do it differently, but this works for me and I believe it to be safe for a variety of reasons.
Ron
Here's a not very good pic of how the front is chained. The tool on the trailer blocks your view, but the chain goes through a clevis attached to the grill guard and crosses, so the tractor can't easily slide left or right.
The rear chain goes through a clevis on the drawbar and crosses (without a binder).
Disclaimer: This setup works for me. I believe it is legal in my state. Many would argue that since I don't have FOUR chains and four binders, I'm not legal. As I've stated previously, if I were going coast to coast, I might do it differently, but this works for me and I believe it to be safe for a variety of reasons.
Ron
Attachments
Here is a link to the DOT rules.
http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/technical/North%20American%20Final%20Rule.pdf
HBob
http://www.1st-chainsupply.com/technical/North%20American%20Final%20Rule.pdf
HBob
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
As was also explained to me, each state is bound to uphold those regs "as they see fit". In other words, the officers (on a local level) can interpret the law as it applies to each case. Each judge can make decisions based on their interpretation of the law. You or I, with the aid of a good attorney, can fight those interpretations if we don't agree with them. Each state can also UPGRADE those requirements as they see fit.
But the bottom line is, I don't want to be stopped along a busy interstate, debating issues of the law with a DOT Officer. The best way you or I can insure ourselves (in any small degree)of that is to be far safer than any laws require.
But the bottom line is, I don't want to be stopped along a busy interstate, debating issues of the law with a DOT Officer. The best way you or I can insure ourselves (in any small degree)of that is to be far safer than any laws require.
3720_Owner
Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Thank you everyone for their great suggestions and pictures.
Now... may I ask what the trailer capacity is for "your" trailer and how heavy is your set-up.
I want to get a trailer and have some extra capacity as a safety factor. I have a Kubota B2150 and will usually have a loader at least on the tractor.
Thanks, Tim )</font>
I have been wondering about trailer capacity also. I already have a 7000lb dual axle landscaping trailer. The bed is wood. The ramp is flimsy mesh, which is fine for the ZT mower, but I would need a much better ramp if the trailer could really handle my 2900lb JD3720 (4500lb? with attachments). I know bigger is better, but I do see several of the other posts with pictures that look like landscaping trailers vice flatbed car haulers, and trying to store two trailers eats up a lot of space.
Thanks,
Steven
Now... may I ask what the trailer capacity is for "your" trailer and how heavy is your set-up.
I want to get a trailer and have some extra capacity as a safety factor. I have a Kubota B2150 and will usually have a loader at least on the tractor.
Thanks, Tim )</font>
I have been wondering about trailer capacity also. I already have a 7000lb dual axle landscaping trailer. The bed is wood. The ramp is flimsy mesh, which is fine for the ZT mower, but I would need a much better ramp if the trailer could really handle my 2900lb JD3720 (4500lb? with attachments). I know bigger is better, but I do see several of the other posts with pictures that look like landscaping trailers vice flatbed car haulers, and trying to store two trailers eats up a lot of space.
Thanks,
Steven
George2615
Super Member
Steven,
Your landscape trailer will haul your tractor. 7K is 7K for trailers. You will need to improve the loading ramp to accomodate the weight of the tractor. I'm sure additional bracing could be welded onto your ramp to accomplish this. The difference between a 7000# landscape trailer and a 7000# car trailer is usually the width. Standard landscape or construction trailer is 77" between the fenders compared to 83" for a car one. Most 7K trailers weigh between 2000-2300# leaving you with a load cap. of 4700-5000#. I would recommend brakes on both axles. If yours doesn't have brakes on both axles they can be added for peace of mind. I regularly haul my 2615HST w/ loader and snowblower weighing about 4700 on my 7K 83" w x 20' tiltbed without problem. In fact, I think I may have exceeded the allotted weight a few times as well. I see no reason for you to get rid of your trailer unless you wanted to upgrade to a higher weight cap. say 10K or 12K. There is some pics of mine in members photos.
George
Your landscape trailer will haul your tractor. 7K is 7K for trailers. You will need to improve the loading ramp to accomodate the weight of the tractor. I'm sure additional bracing could be welded onto your ramp to accomplish this. The difference between a 7000# landscape trailer and a 7000# car trailer is usually the width. Standard landscape or construction trailer is 77" between the fenders compared to 83" for a car one. Most 7K trailers weigh between 2000-2300# leaving you with a load cap. of 4700-5000#. I would recommend brakes on both axles. If yours doesn't have brakes on both axles they can be added for peace of mind. I regularly haul my 2615HST w/ loader and snowblower weighing about 4700 on my 7K 83" w x 20' tiltbed without problem. In fact, I think I may have exceeded the allotted weight a few times as well. I see no reason for you to get rid of your trailer unless you wanted to upgrade to a higher weight cap. say 10K or 12K. There is some pics of mine in members photos.
George
rk246
Gold Member
I am using a 14' dump trailer, it is 80 1/2" wide, it is rated to 15,000 #s, it seems to work pretty well, the ramps are a little small but can haul plenty of weight and is built very sturdy... Plus once you get where you are going you have a useful trailer to load stuff in with the fel.... or bring in rock/barkdust etc.
TimP
Platinum Member
HIGHBEAM,
I'm looking at the very same trailer as you have (PJ) except it's a 20'.
The 10k car hauler trailers are heavier much heavier duty than the 7k trailers. I see the 10K's have 6" steel, the deck supports are spaced only 12" apart.
If you don't mind me asking.... what did you pay for that trailer you have ?
I'm trying to get my hands on a "Trade-In" and hope it will be 1/2 the cost of brand new.
Thanks, Tim
I'm looking at the very same trailer as you have (PJ) except it's a 20'.
The 10k car hauler trailers are heavier much heavier duty than the 7k trailers. I see the 10K's have 6" steel, the deck supports are spaced only 12" apart.
If you don't mind me asking.... what did you pay for that trailer you have ?
I'm trying to get my hands on a "Trade-In" and hope it will be 1/2 the cost of brand new.
Thanks, Tim
Highbeam
Super Member
I bought it brand new for just about 2700$ as I recall. Tax and jive brought me to the 3000. The 6" channel is stout and from the front tire forward it is double thick for a 12" section. Plenty stout and the crossmemebers are 3" channel but I thought they were 16" OC. The lights are all the grommet mounted flush type and the wood is replaceable. The axles are dexter ezlube style. I continue to get high praise for this trailer, it is just sharp as heck I think.
Attachments
Highbeam
Super Member
I will not weigh into this thread except to point out that the DOT rules that have been quoted have nothing to do with 99 % of the people on this forum. A trailer with double axle that will carry 7000 lbs will take care of 90% of the people on the forum. There is such a thing as overkill, and it seems to be happening here.
N80
Super Member
Overkill in regards to chains and chain binders is no big deal. If the cost of extra materials is weighed against peace of mind, then no real harm done.
However, it occurs to me that a trailer that is bigger than it needs to be adds to the overall weight that needs to be towed. If, because of the size of the trailer, you push or exceed the tow vehicle's limits, then overkill becomes a problem rather than security.
However, it occurs to me that a trailer that is bigger than it needs to be adds to the overall weight that needs to be towed. If, because of the size of the trailer, you push or exceed the tow vehicle's limits, then overkill becomes a problem rather than security.
Farmwithjunk
Super Member
Agree to a point, but the 99% may be a bit far off. DOT regs apply to ANYTHING used for commercial purpose. That means when used to make one thin dime. It also applies to (for the very same reason) anything used for FARM purposes. That applies to me.
From someone who TRIED to skirt the issue and was taught otherwise by "THE MAN".
From someone who TRIED to skirt the issue and was taught otherwise by "THE MAN".
2nstonge
Gold Member
I'm also using a 14ft dump trailer (made by PJ) to haul my JD 4110. Trailer is built like a brick s*** house, I highly recommend you check out PJ, they make dumps and flatbeds. The dump trailer is very usefull once on the job (with or without tractor). Trailer with a few options plus additional D-rings welded on was just about $6k.
-Norm
-Norm
Attachments
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( HBob,Disclaimer: This setup works for me. I believe it is legal in my state. Many would argue that since I don't have FOUR chains and four binders, I'm not legal. As I've stated previously, if I were going coast to coast, I might do it differently, but this works for me and I believe it to be safe for a variety of reasons.
Ron )</font>The regs only state a minimum of two tiedowns for vehicles under 10k. I see nothing about two binders.
This subject is about as volatile as a discussion on drivers license requirements. My view on following DOT regs is thus: Things happen, people get injured or worse. I don't want that on my conscience due to negligence. Other drivers tend to do real stupid things around trailered vehicles. An accident may not be your fault but a court may view things differently. Buying good chains/binders is cheap insurance.
Ron )</font>The regs only state a minimum of two tiedowns for vehicles under 10k. I see nothing about two binders.
This subject is about as volatile as a discussion on drivers license requirements. My view on following DOT regs is thus: Things happen, people get injured or worse. I don't want that on my conscience due to negligence. Other drivers tend to do real stupid things around trailered vehicles. An accident may not be your fault but a court may view things differently. Buying good chains/binders is cheap insurance.
Highbeam
Super Member
As I said before, I could scrape by with a 7000 lb trailer. Besides the stouter axles of the 10,000 lber, the rest of the trailer seems to be extra stout. I would rather overkill than be right on the ragged edge. PJ trailer makes an excellent 7000 lb trailer at a discounted price if the lighter duty trailer is what you want.
Also be sure to know that the tractor may not be the load that breaks the trailer. Maybe it's those two pallets of sackrete or the load of RR ties.
Also be sure to know that the tractor may not be the load that breaks the trailer. Maybe it's those two pallets of sackrete or the load of RR ties.
