Proposed ban on gas stoves...

[CobyRupert]

Since concern seems to be based on non vented stoves putting fumes in homes the question in my mind is how long does a stove or oven have to operate to put dangerous levels of fumes in 1,000 square foot area? 10 minutes, half hour, etc.

That varies widely, depending on number and size of burners, size of house, how tight the house is, etc..

I’ve found no good numbers.
This article states the EPA CO standard for air is 9ppm. Since 1926, stoves are required to produce less than 800ppm, some stoves can be tuned to 50 ppm.
So how does a stove that produces somewhere between 50-800ppm contribute to raising the room concentrations above 9ppm? Time duration, room size, venting all must be a factor.

Iowa State University Extension and Outreach

www.abe.iastate.edu

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Our home is new. Best insulation and windows we could buy. It is ALL electric. I wish we had gas. In the winter, electricity is a poor, poor heat source. During the last cold snap, we had to augment heat with a radiant propane heater. Electric heat pumps and resistance heating strips are not efficient.

 

[WinterDeere]

Electric heat pumps and resistance heating strips are not efficient.

Not to be the, "well, actually..." guy, but resistance heating is 100% efficient, by it's very definition.

Heat pumps go beyond 100% efficiency, until they don't.

Gas and oil run variably 65% - 85%, depending on configuration, setup, maintenance. But if the fuel source is cheaper...

I heat my home mostly with wood, with oil backup, but my shop and studio are heated entirely with heat pump. The heat pump works great, until it gets real cold, and then it just sucks electric without doing much for my benefit. My ideal setup would be a heat pump with fossil (eg. LP) backup, as the heat pump is far cheaper to run in our usual daytime highs, but gets expensive overnight or during extended cold spells. Of course, I'm only trying to keep a shop around 55F, not a home near 75F.

But of course, none of this has much of anything to do with a ban on gas stoves. I personally think any proposed ban on gas stoves in residential applications is stupid and unnecessary. Their cost is already driving them toward extinction, especially with superior induction ranges hitting the market in recent years. Let the free market do its thing, no need to interfere with the almighty Capitalism, in this case. I hate to admit I agree with @Fuddyduddy1952, but any implication of government intervention here smells of something other than your best interest.

 

[CobyRupert]

Just remember to move your canary’s cage to a better location.

…but burning propane inside you house is perfectly safe for humans!

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Not to be the, "well, actually..." guy, but resistance heating is 100% efficient, by it's very definition.

Heat pumps go beyond 100% efficiency, until they don't.

Gas and oil run variably 65% - 85%, depending on configuration, setup, maintenance. But if the fuel source is cheaper...

I heat my home mostly with wood, with oil backup, but my shop and studio are heated entirely with heat pump. My ideal setup would be a heat pump with fossil (eg. LP) backup, as the heat pump is far cheaper to run in our usual daytime highs, but gets expensive overnight or during extended cold spells.

But of course, none of this has much of anything to do with a ban on gas stoves. I personally think any proposed ban on gas stoves in residential applications is stupid and unnecessary. Their cost is already driving them toward extinction, especially with superior induction ranges hitting the market in recent years. Let the free market do its thing, no need to interfere with the almighty Capitalism, in this case. I hate to admit I agree with @Fuddyduddy1952, but any implication of government intervention here smells of something other than your best interes

Yes, by definition it’s “efficient”. But I’m not sure the cost per BTU is economical as opposed to NG

 

[Oaktree]

According to the government...

47% of homes rely on natural gas for heating as of 2015.

U.S. households’ heating equipment choices are diverse and vary by climate region - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

www.eia.gov

I don't see propane listed, was in included in natural gas? While I don't know a lot of people who heat with propane, I do know a few. Cooking/hot water, probably half or more.

I'm still paying the same for propane as I did 5 years ago but electricity costs have gone up 30% in the last year.

I don't remember specifically what I was paying 5 years ago, but propane prices are all over the place, probably more so than any other fuel. For some reason it's difficult to research propane pricing online...easy to find fuel oil prices, but very few suppliers post their propane price.

 

[ponytug]

Yes, by definition it’s “efficient”. But I’m not sure the cost per BTU is economical as opposed to NG

By way of disclosure, I have a propane stove.

It is a very location specific number; some parts of the country have cheap propane, natural gas, and / or electricity. The ratio between the costs on an energy basis, e.g. per BTU, is what determines which is the most cost effective.

Here, hands down, it is a heat pump, but I have run the numbers for relatives and friends in other places, and it isn't always true, though it usually is. Some parts of the Midwest have especially cheap gas/propane prices, and high electricity rates for a variety of reasons.

Efficiency to me is not just how efficient the heating/cooling device is, but how efficient the home is. Reducing air leaks, adding insulation, can often make the house more efficient and reduce the total energy bill, over the lifetime of the fixes, but not always.

FWIW: Asthma rates are up 70% in homes with gas stoves compared to electrical stoves. The nitrogen oxides from burning the gas/propane are the cause. Other chemicals are up, and also lung irritating/damaging, e.g. formaldehyde.

Switching to an electric stove isn't trivial for us, but if and when we redo the kitchen, it will be an induction stove. Being able to breathe easily matters to me.

As always, YMMV...

I am reminded of past initiatives to improve public safety that were regarded an egregious at the time, and now more or less normal. As a for instance, coal gas that was 2/3rds carbon monoxide, later replaced by odorized methane, aka natural gas.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ruffdog]

Sometimes I even cook on my woodstove and I'm glad it is vented outside.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Don't know, are they not phasing them out in NY and CA?

Eugene, Oregon has banned sale of new gas ranges. Apparently the combustion products have some health risks, but I think it's mostly a greenie thing. There's a cottage industry there waiting for someone to cash in. Refurbishing old gas ranges is not that hard.

 

[ruffdog]

Sometimes banning items shock people at first. Remember leaded fuel? DDT?

The World Has Finally Stopped Using Leaded Gasoline. Algeria Used The Last Stockpile

 

[BX23S-1]

 

[BX23S-1]

Sometimes banning items shock people at first. Remember leaded fuel? DDT?

The World Has Finally Stopped Using Leaded Gasoline. Algeria Used The Last Stockpile

Leaded gas is NOT banned, it is till being used. Don`t spread false information.

 

[Eagle1]

Boy I'm glad I live some place with no building code, permitting process, or building inspectors. If I want to, I can on my property - no matter how stupid or dangerous.
Full disclosure I have an electric stove, electric central heat but always use the wood stove and heat an out building with ventless propane. I just hate being told what is good for me...

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”​

― C. S. Lewis

 

[Muhammad]

I'm sure that if gas were no longer an option for whatever reason, the electric range technology would start advancing and maybe they would come up with something comparable to, or even better, than gas. We're already using so many technologies that are better than their predecessors. Just think we used to have to go to somebody's house or a local establishment to argue with each other about gas stoves. Now we get to do it on the internet from the comfort of our homes.

 

[Snobdds]

If the war in Ukraine has taught the world anything, it's that energy diversity is paramount.

This backwards thinking of relying upon electic for everything, will have painful effects later on. Take out the US grid...take out the US. Seems simple even for dumb dictators.

 

[Snobdds]

I'm sure that if gas were no longer an option for whatever reason, the electric range technology would start advancing and maybe they would come up with something comparable to, or even better, than gas. We're already using so many technologies that are better than their predecessors. Just think we used to have to go to somebody's house or a local establishment to argue with each other about gas stoves. Now we get to do it on the internet from the comfort of our homes.

Technology comes with a price. Housing affordability will suffer. Inflation will continue.

 

[Eagle1]

I'm sure that if gas were no longer an option for whatever reason, the electric range technology would start advancing and maybe they would come up with something comparable to, or even better, than gas. We're already using so many technologies that are better than their predecessors. Just think we used to have to go to somebody's house or a local establishment to argue with each other about gas stoves. Now we get to do it on the internet from the comfort of our homes.

Well at least it's quieter and less chance of assault than in person

 

[deserteagle71]

I'm sure that if gas were no longer an option for whatever reason, the electric range technology would start advancing and maybe they would come up with something comparable to, or even better, than gas. We're already using so many technologies that are better than their predecessors. Just think we used to have to go to somebody's house or a local establishment to argue with each other about gas stoves. Now we get to do it on the internet from the comfort of our homes.

Absolutely!

The problem is depending on one power source...that is not so dependable. Right now there are several winter storms that have been impacting northern Nevada; as a result there are some areas that have been without electricity for over a week. So no lights, no heat, no hot water, no cooking for those all-electric homes. Not much fun in the middle of the winter when sunset occurs at 5 pm; the state has had to open "warming centers" for the people affected.

Those of us who have gas appliances can still use them - if the electric igniter doesn't work I can still use a match or butane lighter.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

We should ban cooking and just get Uber Eats.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Our government loves us and only has our best interest at heart.