PTO speed really needed?

mountain_man · Sep 10, 2003

From my PHD manual.

The auger is designed to operate just above idle speed...With auger raised clear of ground, drive into position and engage PTO with tractor idling; lower digger slowly and permit it to dig one foot (1ft.) deep. Raise digger and allow auger to clear itself by operating PTO; lower digger and dig another foot deep. Repeat this until hole is to desired depth...In loose and sandy soil, you get a cleaner hole by stopping rotation of the auger before lifting it from the hole and starting it just before it clears the hole to throw the soil on the auger out and away from the hole...

JerryG · Sep 10, 2003

My Bush Hog post hole auger manual says
"at a little more than idling speed"

JerryG · Sep 10, 2003

In my younger days I worked on farm equipment at a dealership. I have replaced or repaired everything on a tractor from one end to the other. There is nothing mechanically in a tractor that will be damaged by running less that 540 RPM on the PTO as long as the engine is not lugged. The only exception might be in a Hydro that was not made to work.

Bird · Sep 10, 2003

( why run lower when useing the FEL ? )

Dave, I would assume it might be different with different tractors, especially with different size tractors. With such things as mowers (whether finish mower, rotary cutter, hay cutters, etc.), hay balers, and tillers, I always ran tractors at the PTO speed (about 2560 RPM on the B2710 if I remember right, less of course on the bigger tractors). You then control your ground speed with the gears, or hydro pedal, if you have a hydro. In those situations, I think most of us, myself at least, will be running under a fairly consistent load for an extended length of time. But when using the FEL, I was almost always in 4WD and either low or mid-range, and found that 2200 RPM on the B2710 was the right combination of speed and power; i.e., the FEL raised, lowered, and curled the bucket fast enough, I had enough power to push into most piles of dirt, I could maneuver the tractor forward and backward as fast as I wanted, etc. Higher RPM made me more likely to spin wheels and was unnecessary (I don't like the additional noise of higher RPM myself unless there's a reason for it). And of course 2200 RPM wasn't exactly "low" speed for that tractor.

Docsknotinn · Sep 10, 2003

I see !! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have just been running PTO speed. Thats a good point. I need to play a bit and see if that will work for me. In that context I wonder if the PTO speed is set just for RPM or maximum HP ? Of course that will change on every tractor /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif When I run implements I always run PTO speed. Isn't that what its on the guage for ? Dave

Bird · Sep 10, 2003

John, I never had my own post hole digger and have very limited experience with them compared to Cowboydoc, but I have used an old one on a neighbor's 85hp Oliver and a brand new Bush Hog on my cousin's TC29D New Holland, as well as helping another neighbor with his PHD on his John Deere. But we always did one thing the same as Cowboydoc and that is to set the point of the auger on the ground, with the point very slightly angled to the rear, before engaging the PTO, then we gradually increased the RPM, but never to full PTO speed. And as he said, we raised it in the hole still running, but always stopped it completely before lifting it all the way out of the hole.

When we talked about running implements at "PTO" speed, I guess we were thinking of mowing, tilling, baling hay, etc., all circumstances under which the implement would be running continuously for extended periods of time. With a PHD, it was always running a relatively short period of time; i.e., stop and go use.

JerryG · Sep 10, 2003

I will also say that there are a few pieces of equipment that require a certain rpm such as a baler.

Trev · Sep 10, 2003

Sory folks.. didn't realize this one had been rehashed umpteen times. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I have a theory.. if a doctor (cowboydoc) and a policeman (Bird) both tell you the same thing, it might be wise to listen!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks, guys!
Bob

Sprocket1 · Sep 10, 2003

I don't know Trev, but judging from the bounce you got goin' on your little tractor icon, I'd say at least it's running fast enough. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

normde2001 · Sep 10, 2003

I notice a distinct lack of professionals, (dealers), in this thread, who probably know the answer, but my guess is that "correct pto speed" is merely the speed for which most implements are engineered to work properly.

DieselD · Sep 10, 2003

Most implements are made to run at or about 540 or 1000.
Diesels are happiest run wide open or very close to it.
PHD shouold be run fast enough to get the dirt out of the hole.
If its not diggin go faster, if it bounces ,slow it down.
When mowing. Get the correct HIGH rpm, then pick your land speed.
FEL work, 2000 rpms is usually good to leave some pedal to smash into the pile with more speed.
Flat out with loader work is sometimes tricky for some to control the stick without loosing the load or getting the tractor sitting on its nose.
Danny

MossRoad · Sep 10, 2003

Hey, Trev, does your tractor manual suggest anything about operating RPM's?

NIXON · Sep 10, 2003

Don't know about tractors. But Rhino and Woods suggest about 300 rpm max for their augers . seems to be reasonable as the Nh 865 skid steer we use at work(20" auger) drills better at moderate speeds as opposed to going full out .John

MossRoad · Sep 10, 2003

Here's a link to Woods' page on post hole diggers. Tractor PTO speed is listed as 540 RPM.

Is there gear reduction in the head or is it one to one ratio?

I couldn't find any more info on their website /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

JerryG · Sep 10, 2003

Most gear heads on PHD are in the 4:1 range.

Trev · Sep 11, 2003

( Interesting question, Trev.

There have been some argum... er, uh,... lively discussions on this before /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif. What does your owner's manual say about it?

My IH manual specifically states that my( not yours, not everybody else's, just my ) tractor should be run at PTO speed all the time to maintain proper pressure and lubrication. )

Hi Moss,

My JD manual says to run at PTO speed also, but gives no reasoning behind it. I thought maybe it was just so the mower would cut better. Sounds like it's more complicated than that!

THanks,
Bob

shady1701 · Sep 11, 2003

it's all about fluid flow. Assuming transmissions use hydralic fluid to cool them if you run a lower rpm you won't have pump flow assuming it's pressure lubricated and it would in theory run hotter if you were loading it. same with engine and same theory behind hydro-stat's.

It's basicaly the same as a manual trans so assuming it's like in the ball part above 2000 rpm i'd assume it would be ok.

NIXON · Sep 12, 2003

Moss road ..
DoH!!! It's on the servis rhino page . www.servis-rhino.com
300 pto rpm max . I could have sworn I saw it on the Woods site as well . But then I'm getting brain fade a lot in my old age /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif All the best, John