Rear Remotes - Planning stages, need advice

[number9L]

I have a Kubota L3800 with FEL. I am wanting to add a Top-n-Tilt setup but want to take my time and plan this out and try and get it "right" (not have regrets) the first time.

There isn't a lot of room on the L3800 to mount the valves in a clean way and I'd really like to use a loader type valve / joystick with Float for running the TnT. I'd like to have the Float on the top link to allow Rotary Cutter, Finish Mower and Box Blade follow the ground. I want to add a Power Beyond valve/remote as well while I am at it, but am fine with a single lever for that function or using a diverter valve may be even better. I want as clean an install as I can work out.

These two valves look like they might fit well down in between the seat and RH fender and work well for what I have in mind. I know I'll have to do some fab work to get them mounted and creative hose routing, but that's fine as I am not in a bug hurry to throw them on in the next week. I want to take my time and do it well and I suspect hose routing will be the most challenging part of this process.

Surplus Center - 2 SPOOL COMPACT 10 GPM JOYSTICK CONTROL VALVE

Surplus Center - 2 SPOOL 14 GPM PRINCE LVR JOYSTICK LOADER VALVE
This one has a 14GPM rate, would that work ok with my tractor's 6.3GPM pump?

I am wondering if I should go ahead while I am doing all this and add a 3rd function to the FEL as I can see that I may want a grapple down the road. I'd want to do a diverter valve for this one so I can just use the FEL joystick.

I've read threads about others using diverter valves where the button to switch the valve is momentary. Is there valves that allow the use of a toggle switch? That seems like it would be more intuitive, just flip the switch and work the stick as needed, then flip it back as opposed to holding the momentary button in the whole time. Maybe not, I really don't know.

I'm just trying to think ahead at all the possibilities so I don't wish I'd done something different once I get it installed and using it.

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[J_J]

Either of those valves will work. Both have PB

You should however match the valve GPM with the pump flow.

Using a diverter/selector valve, you can flip a spst switch and lock the valve in a certain position.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE.

Here is a third function valve you could wire up with a dpdt. = double pole double throw. The ports on the subplate are capable of high pressure.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Surplus Center - 1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER

You could also put both momentary and spst the same switch handle.

Spst = single pole single throw.

You could also plug your grapple into the remotes, and use the joystick to control the grapple.

 

[number9L]

Either of those valves will work. Both have PB

You should however match the valve GPM with the pump flow.

Using a diverter/selector valve, you can flip a spst switch and lock the valve in a certain position.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 13.2 GPM SAE 8 DOUBLE SELECTOR VALVE.

Here is a third function valve you could wire up with a dpdt. = double pole double throw. The ports on the subplate are capable of high pressure.

Surplus Center - 12 VDC 10 GPM OC DA SOLENOID VALVE

Surplus Center - 1 STATION DO3 SUBPLATE OPEN CENTER

You could also put both momentary and spst the same switch handle.

Spst = single pole single throw.

You could also plug your grapple into the remotes, and use the joystick to control the grapple.

So would you recommend going with the first loader valve I linked to then since it's a 10GPM valve over the 14GPM valve?

Thing I liked about the 14GPM valve is that all the ports come out the bottom and it doesn't have regen. But if it's higher flow rate would hurt fluid flow or attachment performance I would rather not go that route.

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[J_J]

With a larger valve, you are at full flow at about 1/3 lever movement.

With a matched valved, you have good feathering ability.

Here is a joystick valve from Baileys you might consider.

Two Spool Loader Valves LVT Series | Type 4-way, 3-pos. LVT VALVE 2 SPL 220-131

I have seen some nice valve setups on the fender.

 

[number9L]

Ahh, ok got it. I want the feathering to be as good as it can so I'll stick with the first valve I posted. It's a little smaller than the other one anyway.

I see the valve has SAE 8 fittings and the quick disconnects and cylinders have 3/8" NTP. I'll have to have lines made up to the lengths I need, so should I stick with 3/8" NTP fittings on the lines or go with a different (better?) type fitting? I'm gonna have to buy adapters and 45 or 90 elbows anyway. Also, are these fittings with swivel on them fine to use? Surplus Center - SAE 8M x 3/8 NPTF SWIVEL

I am going to go ahead and get the TnT cylinders and loader valve and do some mock-up to determine the best routes to run the lines and just how long of lines and what fittings I'll need first. I want the line runs to be as clean and just right as I can get them without it looking like a bowl of spaghetti exploded on my tractor.

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[J_J]

Check here for hoses.

Surplus Center

 

[number9L]

So I am exploring other valves as I want to be able to float both the top link and side link. Is there any scenario where one would want to float them both at the same time? I can't really think of any right off...

I am looking into this valve http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008032012213814&item=9SV-4-Y&catname=hydraulic in either the 3 spool or 4 spool version, and like the fact that it has a joystick option to control 2 valves. I really want to get the valve mounted down between the seat and fender and have the lever sticking up where my hand would be operating the 3pt lever. Just seems like it would be more natural than going from the 3pt lever back to up on the fender or ROPS and back.

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[J_J]

Sure you can use a custom valve to fit you applications.

It is rather pricey, but if it what you want then go for it.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2008032012213814&item=9SV-4-Y&catname=hydraulic

 

[J_J]

Here is a good question,

Can you add joystick levers to two adjacent spools on a stacked valve, and have the T-N-T cyl go into float together.

 

[number9L]

I wouldn't think so, that's why I was wondering if there are any situations where you'd want to float them both at the same time.


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[number9L]

I searched a lot today on the forum and seems a lot of people use the Prince SV series valves for rear remotes. I think I am either going to go with a 3-spool Prince SV, with 1) float, 2) float, 3) DA spring center and add the optional joystick and install it on spools 1 & 2. Run the TnT off the joystick and have the 3rd for whatever I end up needing it for. I am worried that the valve will be just a bit too big to fit in where I want it to though. I've got 3" wheel spacers, so I *could* move the fenders out a couple inches if it came to that, but I'd rather not get into all that.

I was also able to find a thread where someone else had used the first joystick valve I posted in this thread and installed it exactly where I want it to be. From the thread he said it worked out great. He hasn't been on the forum in a couple years though I don't think. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/137147-thanks-all-help-tnt.html Trouble with this is I'd only have a 2-spool valve and it only has 1 float. If the Prince SV is just too big, maybe I'll have to go this route and add a diverter valve for spool-1 and run the TnT off of it so they both have float and then use spool-2 for the 3rd function.

If I decide to get a grapple later on, I'll probably just run a hose from the rear of the tractor, up to a QC at the factory loader valve, then down the boom to QC on the cross bar behind the bucket.

I found a complete manual for the SV series valves today and the SV valve with 3 SVW sections is 8-5/8" tall x 8-3/4" wide x 3-1/4" thick if it is standing on the float caps with the handles pointed to the sky. Gonna be tight I'm affraid, but I'm gonna build a cardboard mockup today and see how it looks down in there.

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[MtnViewRanch]

Don't forget about all the room that the fittings and hoses take up.

 

[number9L]

Yep, I've got that in mind Brian.

The SV valve with 3 SVW sections is 8-5/8" tall x 8-3/4" wide x 3-1/4" thick. I made a box this evening that is 9" x 9" x 3-1/4" to see how it was gonna work out and after giving it some good looks, I think it will work out after all. I can't get crazy with the hoses and fittings, but I want to do them neat and as "just right" as I can anyway.

Here the box down in the spot I want to mount it (seat is folded up in most of these pics). I used a scrap piece of wood under the box to hold it in place while I looked and took pics. I plan to cut the unused panel above the box out to make room for the joystick and 3rd lever.

Here's a look from behind.

From behind with the seat folded down.

From above with the seat down.

From above with the seat folded up and a tape showing the room I've got to work with for the fittings and hoses.

I think it looks like it can work out. I need to double check and confirm that the joystick will move into Float in the directions I want (from the seat - forward for spool-1, Top link and to the right for spool-2, Tilt link). If that checks out, I think I'll order the valve, joystick and a few fittings and pick up a length of 3/8" Hyd hose in town so I can start figuring out exactly where it needs to land and then start working on a mounting setup for the valve under there.

What do you guys think? You see anything that I am missing and will stop me in my tracks?

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[MtnViewRanch]

I'm thinking that you may not be able to use the float mode when pushed to the outside. If it pulls in, no problem, just need to confirm which way and how far it moves. Most of your 90s are going to take up a minimum of 1 1/2", so it looks like that will work out for you. Do you have any 3/8" air hose? It works very well to figure hose routing.

 

[number9L]

That left/right stick movement is one of my main concerns too. They offer bent joystick and I know I can bend one up myself as well, but that may be a sticking point. The thread where the other guy put the joystick in the same place and said it worked fine gives me some hope, but that axis didn't have float either.

I've got to take some longer and harder looks at that SV manual and do some figuren on how far that stick will need to move to detent into float.

But since I placed my order for TnT with you this morning, I've GOT to get some valves now

I do have some 3/8" hose up in the attic that I could take over to the shop (about 5 miles away) and use but it's cheap hose and stiff as a poker. That's why it's in the attic :laughing:

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[MtnViewRanch]

You sure DO NOT want to use any stiff hose for measuring. Had a customer do that and ended up remaking ALL of the hoses.

 

[number9L]

When I go to get Hyd hoses, what fittings should I get on them? JIC female?

When I order this valve I want to put some 45 and 90 fittings on the order that will go on the valve, to mock around with and would be better to know what the lines will have on them.

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[paulwestski]

When I go to get Hyd hoses, what fittings should I get on them? JIC female?

When I order this valve I want to put some 45 and 90 fittings on the order that will go on the valve, to mock around with and would be better to know what the lines will have on them.

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:2cents:
You need some SAE to JIC male straight fittings, these are available in long and short, that will allow you to stack lines.

SAE 37° Flare (JIC) x O-Ring Boss (ORB) Adapter
SAE 37° Flare (JIC) x O-Ring Boss (ORB) Long

Then your 45* and 90* fitting will connect to the straight fittings

SAE 37° (JIC) Swivel Nut 90° Elbow
SAE 37° (JIC) Swivel Nut 45° Elbow

There's not enough room to thread a 45 or 90 fitting directly into the spool.


I like to use hoses with the JIC female ends on them....easier to work with.
I ordered all of my fittings from Discount Hydraulic Hose, they also sell the nylon hose protective covering.

Surplus center has the best price on hoses and quick connects. Make sure you order the right size QCs.
If you ordered your T&Ts with QCs they'll most likely be 1/2" make sure you order the right size.
For mock up I'd just order a couple of fittings from SC with your valve.

Make sure you lubricate the JIC fittings with a couple drops of hydraulic fluid during final assembly when torquing.
If you do use any pipe thread fittings don't use any teflon tape. Use high quality liquid sealant (pipe dope).

 

[number9L]

Nice, that helps a lot Paul :thumbsup:

What hose did you use? Seems I remember seeing in your pics they said "superflex" or something like that. I see "1 wire", "2 wire", etc descriptions on hose, what kind of hose should I use?


OH......and I've been meaning to ask you.....what type fittings did you use to attach the QC to the plate you made on the ROPS? I'd like to go ahead and make a plate like that and get it mounted to help in the mock up. I've got the U-bolts and steel, and I'll order the QC with the valve to be able to mount them for mock up of hose length, but what will I need to mount them on the plate?

Also...what's your guys thoughts on running hoses direct to the TnT and just have 1 set of remotes on the rear plate? I'm kind of going back and forth on this. It would a a lot neater install to just run the hoses direct from the valve to the TnT. BUT.....I'd be opening the hyd system up if I ever needed to take a cylinder off....and I guess if I ran all the hoses to rear QC's, there could be a time where I may want to unplug one of the cylinders and use the connection for something?


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[paulwestski]

Nice, that helps a lot Paul :thumbsup:

What hose did you use? Seems I remember seeing in your pics they said "superflex" or something like that. I see "1 wire", "2 wire", etc descriptions on hose, what kind of hose should I use?


OH......and I've been meaning to ask you.....what type fittings did you use to attach the QC to the plate you made on the ROPS? I'd like to go ahead and make a plate like that and get it mounted to help in the mock up. I've got the U-bolts and steel, and I'll order the QC with the valve to be able to mount them for mock up of hose length, but what will I need to mount them on the plate?

Also...what's your guys thoughts on running hoses direct to the TnT and just have 1 set of remotes on the rear plate? I'm kind of going back and forth on this. It would a a lot neater install to just run the hoses direct from the valve to the TnT. BUT.....I'd be opening the hyd system up if I ever needed to take a cylinder off....and I guess if I ran all the hoses to rear QC's, there could be a time where I may want to unplug one of the cylinders and use the connection for something?


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Those are called bulkhead fittings
Male Pipe (NPTF) x SAE 37° Flare (JIC) Bulkhead

Those hoses were supplied by Fit Rite. They're a good value.
You may want to tell Brian to not supply the male QCs.
If you buy these from Surplus center you won't need them.
Surplus Center - 3/8" NPT QUICK COUPLER F/F S40-3
Make sure if you order the hose kits from Brian to tell him you need 3/8 Male pipe thread on the QC end.

Although most everyone else uses 1/2" QCs I don't see the need for T&T. You'll be making small adjustments and don't need a lot of flow.
The 1/2" QCs are double the price.

I usually get the 3/8" 2 wire hose they're rated for more pressure.

Just figure on using QCs on the T&T.
Do you have a backhoe?
If so you'll want to remove the T&T cylinders when you mount the backhoe.

You may want to just put the T&T QCs on the plate, and for the third spool have some short hoses with QCs.
That way you can route them towards the front of the tractor for future grapple use.

A lot will depend on whether you have a back hoe or not.
I did and had limited real estate on the back of the tractor.
six QCs takes up a lot of space.

Suggest that you order all of the QCs and bulk head fittings at one time.
That way you can layout the the proper spacing on the mounting plate.

Down load this file lots of good info here.
How to Identify Fluid Ports and Connectors

When you assemble the valve don't for get to lube the o-rings between the sections with hydro fluid.
Once you get all done mocking up the valve and test mounting everything remove the valve, degrease it and paint the valve. I masked off all of the plastic and rubber parts.

:2cents: