Refueling effort

/ Refueling effort #81  
patrick_g said:
... There are cheap little solar powered fans designed to cool a car parked in the sun which could be adapted to ventilate a reefer when the sun shines (when it might need venting the most.)...

Pat

I'm thinking that would be a bad idea as I doubt those cheap fans are most likely not explosion proof. ;)
 
/ Refueling effort #82  
MossRoad said:
I'm thinking that would be a bad idea as I doubt those cheap fans are most likely not explosion proof. ;)

Good thought. If it is brushless I can direct it to blow into the enclosure. If it has brushes I can not use it and select one of my little brushless motors to spin a fan.

Pat
 
/ Refueling effort #83  
NY_Yankees_Fan said:
Alan,

NFPA 30 does not require the storage cabinet to be vented. My experience is most are not. However, if they are vented they must be steel pipe to the outside of the building. When I look at flammable cabinets I check that the bungs are tight in place and if not they are vented properly.


Tom, I am betting that you are from a fire safety background, as that is where your references are from.

In my experience more of a driver for Flam lockers etc. is from the OSHA side of the house, most of industry as a general statement reference the OSHA regs as "the gospel"

That said, I cannot think of a manufacturer that does not provide vent plugs, and the decision to utilize them is often left to the AHJ, which I think you and I will both agree, AHJ's do not always agree on what is "right"

That said, the entire point is Moot.

Pat is looking for a better safer way to store flammable materials around his house.

My 2 cents would be that the refrigerator sounds like a good idea.

If it were mine, some additional thoughts would be to vent it in a high low configuration so that it had a natural draft, and if I could I would put it in some form of outside building that minimized exposure to the elements. A box, a shed, an outbuilding I was not concerned of loosing etc.

I would also look to add in some form of secondary containment, or maybe the crisper trays or drawers would work? depending on the arrangement of the particular unit.

If it were mine, I would not attach any electricity too it. I just do not see the benefits outweighing the additional risks.

Pat, hope it works well for you, and hopefully it never has to be put "to the test" if you will. :D
 
/ Refueling effort #84  
If you go to a true sheet goods supplier who carries many kinds of plywoods, etc. versus a big box store, they can provide you with fire-rated plywood. It typically is treated with fire retardents. There have been issues with some of these plywoods delaminating from moisture. That was a while ago. They may have solved that problem. You can get interior or exterior rated fire resistant plywood.
 
/ Refueling effort #85  
"Any of you actual certified fire protection experts want to make a comment regarding a freezer or refrigerator used as a flammable liquids storage locker when it is placed outside away from buildings and combustible materials?"

Pat,

Outside of a building, all by itself, works for me.:D
 
/ Refueling effort #86  
Everyone can weigh in on this if they want. But, I recently built a "Gas Shed/trailer". I have a weekend trailer place where we go through quite a bit of boat gas. Since it is within the flood plane, everything must be on wheels.

I have a mobile home, and an enclosed 24' trailer. But, I didn't like keeping gas and other flamables in the 24' enclosed along with our ski gear, etc. So, I built a 4'x4' "gas shed" (think outhouse looking). The floor is expanded steel. T-111 siding with a metal roof. No electricity and TONS of ventellation.

My theory was, if it does burn, it's not attached to anything, so I'll loose everything inside of this "beauty" and the beauty itself. However, in the grand scheme of things, I can replace the shed/trailer for ~$300.00, and another $100.00 for the cans. Not a huge loss.

I realize it's not as safe as a full steel structure specifically designed for holding flamables. But, it was cheap and at an acceptible risk level.
 
/ Refueling effort #87  
Jim,

It is all about risk, and how much you can tolerate. I like your thinking and I agree with your decision. The least amount of exposure with minimal $ exposure. From an insurance underwriting point of view it is a win win! We always give that as the 1st option, storage away from everything, if it goes it goes, with minimal impact to the operation or business.
 
/ Refueling effort #88  
On a farm...All you need is a pallet to get you cans off the ground and a tarp to cover them...:D
 
/ Refueling effort #89  
I'll admit I wasn't involved in TBN when he posted, but this sounds like something Thingy could weigh in on.

And all from asking a question about not lifting a five gallon can.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.
 
/ Refueling effort #90  
[QUOTE='Bota Fan]I'll admit I wasn't involved in TBN when he posted, but this sounds like something Thingy could weigh in on.

And all from asking a question about not lifting a five gallon can.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night.[/QUOTE]

Welcome to the world of thread drift...:D
 
/ Refueling effort #91  
I still think that pulling your pickup along side the tractor and filling the tractor from the bed of the pickup is the simplest and quickest solution. This is in reference to the 5 gallon can.

The three hundred gallon solution is for those that have their deisel delivered. Which is good if you are a full time farmer and can afford the cost at one time.

Anyway I am only lifting 5 gal at a time, but I still use a funnel and not the spout. The spout gives me more trouble that it is worth.

Best wishes to all.
 
/ Refueling effort #92  
I am far from a full time farmer - I get no more than probably 60 hours tractoring per year and I also have the 300 gal steel tank solution. The tank was there when we moved into the farm. I only get 100 gal filled at a time. It probably lasts me about a year I would guess.

I have a hand pump installed on my tank. Would much prefer ccsial's electric pump but could not justify the cost.

The setup is super convenient. The drawback is having 100gal of diesel sitting for a year before it is topped up. No issues so far. I have been using a powerservice type additive to extend the life, prevent gelling and dispel moisture. I also have a filter attached to the tank that is supposed to take out impurities and moisture.

The only real irritant of my setup is not being able to tell when it is full as I am pumping. I have to go and check every so often and there has been one time where I really misjudged it and overfilled.

It is super convenient and I don't think I could imagine doing it any other way.
 
/ Refueling effort #94  
2 comments, The old fridge works good to store welding rods in, and other items you want dry,and bug free. Throw some of those "DO NOT EAT" silica bags in there and your good to go. As for a fuel locker, I think it would work fine. I agree I would have top and bottom vents, But Im in Fla and everything gets a vent.
 
/ Refueling effort #95  
firemanpat2910 said:
2 comments, The old fridge works good to store welding rods in, and other items you want dry,and bug free. Throw some of those "DO NOT EAT" silica bags in there and your good to go. As for a fuel locker, I think it would work fine. I agree I would have top and bottom vents, But Im in Fla and everything gets a vent.

I've been using an old fridge since 1966 to store gasoline in.;)
So far it's working ptetty good.
In 41 years I've never lost a house, garage pole building or any other structure as a result of storing gas in that old fridge.......:D........
 
/ Refueling effort #96  
canoetrpr said:
The drawback is having 100gal of diesel sitting for a year before it is topped up. No issues so far. I have been using a powerservice type additive to extend the life, prevent gelling and dispel moisture. I also have a filter attached to the tank that is supposed to take out impurities and moisture.

I have had a 300 gallon gravity feed tank for almost 30 years until I put the new tank in this year. Early on I got 300 gallons and kept if for over three years. Then I started getting 100 gallons per fill. I use about 75 gallons per year. I buy 100 per fill. I do not get BIO fuel and I do add the white Power Service. Always used a 10 micron filter. Never had any trouble in the 30 years. The electric pump now uses a 2 micron filter.

I still have the Ford 1910 that has used this fuel and is still in great shape. I suppose the cetane rating may drop after a while but I have never noticed any difference in performance as the fuel ages.
 
/ Refueling effort #97  
About venting vs not venting a chest type freezer or a refrigerator used for storage of flammables.

If you vent top and bottom you get convective air flow at least part of the time which will help keep fumes below the concentration required for an explosion. If a fire got started the vent would keep a supply of air going to the blaze. It is possible the heat of a prolonged fire could distort the metal and let flammable liquids leak out and spread the fire.

If you don't vent, I'd think it is likely that a fire would go out due to lack of oxygen. If somehow a fire started it should go out unless you were unlucky and had an explosive mixture of fuel and air.

I don't store large quantities of flammable liquids in the reefer and I think if I ground it to prevent static sparks it is unlikely to ever catch on fire and if it did most likely it will starve for air and go out before creating the intensity of heat required to distort the shell sufficiently to leak.

Still the uncertainty of whether or not an explosion is possible bothers me. I guess venting it well and placing it where there is no problem of the fire spreading to other fuel is a reasonable combination of measures. I'll have to think on this a bit.

Pat
 
/ Refueling effort #98  
lots of great labor saving ideas here, but I do believe I have you all beat. My 17 year old nephew came to see and try out the new tractor today, and when he had finished breaking it in and had backed it into the barn asked him to hoist the 5 gallon can and refuel. :D I held the funnel.
 
/ Refueling effort #99  
davitk said:
lots of great labor saving ideas here, but I do believe I have you all beat. My 17 year old nephew came to see and try out the new tractor today, and when he had finished breaking it in and had backed it into the barn asked him to hoist the 5 gallon can and refuel. :D I held the funnel.

So you fueled inside the building? :eek: Here come the safety police!!! :)
 
/ Refueling effort #100  
MossRoad said:
So you fueled inside the building? :eek: Here come the safety police!!! :)

Their arrival may be delayed as they are all over at my place arguing about vented vs unvented used refrigerators for storing a jerry can of fuel.

They'd have left already but my wife made the mistake of brewing them some coffee which got a couple of them measuring the temp of the Mr. Coffee's output and another couple arguing whether it was enough that our kitchen outlets are controlled by centrally located wall switches or if we still need to unplug them when leaving the house.

Pat
 

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