Screw Head Bits

[ampsucker]

torx and roberson are great if starting a new project. otherwise, 99% of what you'll encounter is phillips.

i find, as others have posted, that using the correct size phillips head (usually #2 for lumber type projects) is most of the battle. then using a bit which is the right length is the next important thing. (the short ones are often too short to get into tight places and you need to be comfortable to get the correct angle and force applied to the head of the screw.)

i try to buy bits on sale and keep several of each size on hand. and, while it is annoying to break a bit, it is often preferable to stripping out a screw head that is counter sunk and you can't get loose. i would sometimes prefer to have the bit break first. then adjust the clutch incrementally and try again.

i'll also chime in a vote for regular, old fashioned hex head self tappers. rarely do they strip, you can get them in different sizes and probably already have good quality hex head sockets you can chuck up in any drill with the right adaptor. if i don't need to countersink or flush sink, i'll usually go for a hex head over any of the other options.

amp

 

[escavader]

Iremember the day when drywall screws were came out.Iused them for everything,thought they were better then chunky peanut butter Ialso remember when metal roofing screws first came out.Istill have 1/2 my house done with the old fashion nails.The ALUMINUIM roofing also came in 4 ft wide sheets then,they switched to 3 foot sheets.Idont even know if its available now.Back to topic:Now the only thing i use are torx.We call them riser screws[dont know why]Also the larger diameter ones we call riser lags.They are super strong,and will suck down a bowed peice of lumber easily.They are pricy ,but super strong and totally reusable
.ALAN

 

[J_J]

SteelDust,
I spent a couple of hours searching for the product you mentioned.

I could not find out anythng for a coated deck screw with a TORX head, however I did find it in stainless steel. Lowes is now carrying the Grip-Rite brand. Can you find a link or picture of this screw. There is another screw head out now called a LOX head. It looks like this, and has 8 sides.

 

[actionaj]

I have used the Grip-Rite coated TORKs deck screws on my deck. They worked out really well did not strip any out. Bought them at Lowes.

 

[Scooby074]

Almost everything that you ever wanted to know about most common (slot, phillips, and robertson) screw heads their history and evolution can be found here (interesting if your into that sort of thing) When a Phillips is not a Phillips!

SteelDust from your post it sounds like Phillips and Home Depot (Deck MAte) had a falling out. But it looks like HD is still using the Phillips ACR heads? ( at least according to the Deck Mate site)

Personally i like Genuine Robertson bits and screws. A true Robertson bit should be able to hold a robertson screw at any angle. Ive noticed however, that Robertson has started manufacturing their bits and screws overseas and the quality has slipped.. So i now use generic "square drive" bits.

The only screws ive seen that have Torx heads have been Spax Made in Germany, but theyre $$$. Id love to find Torx deck screws for a reasonable price locally. I wonder if the reason Torx hasnt taken off in carpentry is due to the patent on the Torx head? I know in automotive applications the Torx can take alot of torque and will stay on your screwdriver like a Robertson,

 

[JB4310]

J_J
The deck mate screws sold at Home depot now are definitely torx drive, that's what I was complaining about in post #16, I think that letter explains why now (thanks steel dust). I personally don't like them but I dislike Lowes even more, so I'll have to get used to them, or pick up a few boxes when I'm forced to go to lowes for something else. Like I said those blue tip/ phillip square driv were great, IMO a higher quality product than the new torx ones. Much easier to engage from more angles and would hold on in place on the bit better to allow one hand use.

I don't build decks but do use them for all kinds of maintenance/repair work, keep a box of every size of the ACR's on the truck, don't think I've ever broke one of those blue tip bits. You'd know why if you compared them to the little spindly torx bit, which I have broke those already, even with little use.

http://www.phillips-screw.com/Comm_Auto_acr_phillipsII.htm

JB.

 

[Gary Fowler]

What I have found is that most stripping of screw heads when using a phillips head is from not holding the drill bit perfectly perpindicular to the screw. That is assuming that you have the correct size bit for the screw. If you have the bit even slightly angled, it will tend to push itself out and start to spin in the screw head. Just a few rotations will completely round out a phillips head. DO this several times and your bit is toast. I dont think I have ever stripped a Robertson, I've twisted off a bunch of the longer ones in hardwood before they got tight, but never stripped the head. I usually just buy the old Black and Decker package from Walmart or the Sears Craftsman. I find that they work just about as well as any when used properly.

 

[mjncad]

After trying Robertson (square head) screws, I am sold on them. McFeely's has a set of Canadian made screwdrivers with fat black handles that are comfortable to use, and are made well. I also bought a couple of Klein stubby drivers and am happy with them too.

All the DeWalt bit's I've bought are pure crap; but the McFeely's bits are good quality.

TORX are common in the auto industry and I should use them on my tractor projects.

As for slotted and Phillips screws...I throw them out, unless they are my only choice.

 

[J_J]

Well, I guess that I am not to old to learn new stuff. I believe that I have been mixing the different types of screw bits whenever I work on something. Never thinking that the bits for hand screw drivers were that much different. I have used the blue bits in each pkg of screws, but usually I grab the first bit I can find. The insert bits are the lowest grade of bits available, then you have the power bits, torsion bits, TORX bits, TORX tamper proof, LOX bits, which have 8 grab points. clutch bits,spanner bits. etc, and the break down goes on and on. Irwin's web site shows most of the bits available.

IRWIN Fastener Drive

IRWIN TORQ-SET® Power Bits

Look at all the bits under power bits.

 

[SteelDust]

SteelDust,
I spent a couple of hours searching for the product you mentioned.

I could not find out anythng for a coated deck screw with a TORX head, however I did find it in stainless steel. Lowes is now carrying the Grip-Rite brand. Can you find a link or picture of this screw. There is another screw head out now called a LOX head. It looks like this, and has 8 sides.

I have a couple of boxes of the Torx head Deckmates out in my barn, this weekend I'll grab a picture or two.

The only screws ive seen that have Torx heads have been Spax Made in Germany, but theyre $$$. Id love to find Torx deck screws for a reasonable price locally. I wonder if the reason Torx hasnt taken off in carpentry is due to the patent on the Torx head? I know in automotive applications the Torx can take alot of torque and will stay on your screwdriver like a Robertson,

On my barn project, I used Spax stainless screws to secure all of the trim work and as fasteners on the doors. I don't think I've ever had a screw that drove as easily as the Spax, the first few threads were serrated and they grabbed and drove very fast. I did strip the head out of a couple of them though, more my fault, as mentioned the most important thing is keeping the drive bit and the screw head aligned. The Spax screws that I used had a square drive. I will put up some pictures of those as well.


I'm getting a kick out of this. Some how I've found DeckMates that are Torx and Spax that are square drive while others here are finding different. I wonder if it's a regional thing?

 

[Scooby074]

I'm getting a kick out of this. Some how I've found DeckMates that are Torx and Spax that are square drive while others here are finding different. I wonder if it's a regional thing?

Maybe the Torx DeckMates are new stock? Ive seen Spax in both Torx and Pozidriv. So the Spax were worth the money in your opinion? Was there less splitting using them? I might start using them if their worth it.The place where i saw them forsale has stopped selling the exterior screws ( supposedly due to cost), and now only sells interior and eavesdrop screws so id have to go on the hunt to find them.

Edit: Looks like Lee Valley is the only retailer for Spax in Canada and they dont sell exterior screws. There is nothing worse then when a retailer has a product exclusively (for a whole Country) and doesnt carry the entire line. I wrote them a email asking them to start carrying exterior screws again. (they previously carried stainless if i remember right, but id be happy with galvanized) Maybe they'll add it to the new catalog

 

[SteelDust]

Maybe the Torx DeckMates are new stock? Ive seen Spax in both Torx and Pozidriv. So the Spax were worth the money in your opinion? Was there less splitting using them? I might start using them if their worth it.The place where i saw them forsale has stopped selling the exterior screws ( supposedly due to cost), and now only sells interior and eavesdrop screws so id have to go on the hunt to find them.

Edit: Looks like Lee Valley is the only retailer for Spax in Canada and they dont sell exterior screws. There is nothing worse then when a retailer has a product exclusively (for a whole Country) and doesnt carry the entire line. I wrote them a email asking them to start carrying exterior screws again. (they previously carried stainless if i remember right, but id be happy with galvanized) Maybe they'll add it to the new catalog

I wanted to use stainless as all of the trim and siding was cedar. I've always been told and have seen that even the best galvanized fasteners will eventually stain cedar. The Spax were available at Home Depot and were actually the cheapest stainless screw that I could find locally.

I did have a little bit of splitting, but every time that it happened I had said to myself, "I bet this one is going to split" Operator error in most cases, too close to the edge and anything will split.

 

[dirtydan]

I have done a little woodworking over the years and in my opinion torx are the best. GRK brand screws I have found to be the best quality that I have come across though I don't always buy them myself because they are more spendy and a top quality screw is not always needed. I have also found that an impact driver is much more forgiving and can even put phillips screws into oak without stripping most of the time where a regular drill driver won't.
Dan

 

[J_J]

I am sure that most of you guys know this, but I thought I would mention it again. A bar of soap helps a great deal when screwing into hardwood. Slides right in without that squeal and you are hoping the head of the screw does not pop off.

 

[Mickey_Fx]

Don't think we're heard back from the original poster and if the question asked is being addressed.

I like torx. Back when I was a working man, the std drive for fasteners at work (HP) was Posi-drive. Looks a lot like a phillips but drivers are not cross compatable. Can use a phillips driver on a posi-drive fastener with acceptable results but not vise-versa. Along sim lines, one need to pay attention between Torx and spline drives. These 2 can be mis-identified if not looked at closely.

 

[J_J]

Don't think we're heard back from the original poster and if the question asked is being addressed.

I like torx. Back when I was a working man, the std drive for fasteners at work (HP) was Posi-drive. Looks a lot like a phillips but drivers are not cross compatable. Can use a phillips driver on a posi-drive fastener with acceptable results but not vise-versa. Along sim lines, one need to pay attention between Torx and spline drives. These 2 can be mis-identified if not looked at closely.

Can you post a picture of both and explain the difference?

 

[J_J]

Splined bits have 12 sides verses 6 for Torx.

Spline drive, is a fastener specification.

A spline drive bit or socket has 12 teeth. Spline drives are sized via numbers. #5 is one common size. It is different from the 12-toothed triple square and double hex drivers

The primary advantage spline drive and other special fasteners (such as TORX) have over older standards, such as the common Phillips head (and its sibling Pozidriv), is that it resists cam-out, and is thus used in higher-torque applications. Incidentally, the spline drive is also often used in tamper-proof lug nuts on cars.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I tend to buy most of my screws locally rather than mail order because it tends to be convenient while purchasing other materials. My first choice, especially after I purchased a an impact driver is torx. Square and (ugh) Phillips follow.

My preferred place to shop is a bit out of the way so often as not I end up at Lowe's and the closest HD is 80 miles away (perhaps that is a good thing?). I forget which brand Lowe's carry but there are few choices in the Torx style at least the last time I bought some.

No matter the screw head type, I pre drill alot when using the longer length screws. I always predrill the ends of PT boards or existing PT material that has had time to harden.

 

[QRTRHRS]

I am sure that most of you guys know this, but I thought I would mention it again. A bar of soap helps a great deal when screwing into hardwood. Slides right in without that squeal and you are hoping the head of the screw does not pop off.

As does candle wax. Candle wax is also good for drilling metal by the way. It will keep your bit sharper longer. Take the time to coat the bit for each hole.

 

[E_Sanborn]

Robertson and Torx drives both hold well and will handle high radial loads. For me, there're really the only ones to use if you're going to be handling large numbers of fasteners or large fastening loads.

Availability of these once rare (in US) drives is now much better for these drives with the proliferation of high performance 3/8-1/2" cordless drivers and especially impact drivers. Some availability in big box stores, but much better online.

The rest suck with varying levels of slippage expected, and high push rates required. Bit manufacturers also vary greatly in quality and even over time, depending on the OEM. There is always a difficult balance to the hardness vs toughness of the finished product, so you can choose between bits that wear and deform or those that appear unmarked with heavy use, but break suddenly under extreme loads.

Question might be better answered with the application in question, maybe.