Sending Oil Samples For Analysis

[HillStreet]

I am thinking about sending motor oil and hydraulic fluid to a lab next time I service the tractor. I am interested to know if there are wear metals in the samples. The trouble is, what is normal? Would anybresults be able to tell me if components are wearing, or if the metals are from a pump? I send samples from the airplane but the lab knows what is indicated by certain metals. Does anybody do this, and do you have a lab recommendation?

 

[ovrszd]

Normal is established with consistent samples.

If you are currently sending samples for analysis you know that already.

Samples are a good thing but require consistency.

 

[iflywhatevr]

I can speak from an aviation perspective. I use blackstone labs on both piston and turbine engines. They can flag levels that are above the “norm” for a type of engine or numbers of hours of use but to truly establish good data you should be sending in a sample each oil Change. We do this with aircraft engines and it establishes a baseline for your specific engine. The general averages for a type of engine are great and will let you know if something is really about to go but to have truly great data you need a trend established form your own engine. Well worth the $30 for the sample on aircraft engines that range from anywhere from $50,000 - $300,000 to overhaul on tractors this is a little less common but as blackstone can tell you they do get a lot of samples from trucks, tractors, etc. I will pull up a report and post it so you can see what you get.

 

[iflywhatevr]

Here’s a sample report with the top section with personal info cropped. This was on the first sample for one of two engines on a piston aircraft that had never been sampled before.

 

[HillStreet]

Normal is established with consistent samples.

If you are currently sending samples for analysis you know that already.

Samples are a good thing but require consistency.

I send aircraft engine samples every time I change oil, and results are compared with my own engine plus a large sample of aircraft engines. From this data, they can tell me it’s a cylinder or other part failing.
I was thinking of getting a sample from the tractor, and I guess that regular sampling would compare time intervals.

 

[HillStreet]

View attachment 572030
Here痴 a sample report with the top section with personal info cropped. This was on the first sample for one of two engines on a piston aircraft that had never been sampled before.

Thanks ifly

 

[HillStreet]

I ordered test kits from Blackstone Labs and received an email from them this morning. They have data on Kubota 3-cylinder engines (55 engines in database), and Kubota hydraulic systems (35 tractors in database). This is the information I was looking for and will send in the samples when I service the machine. I did mention that I have a B2650HST.

 

[moship]

HillStreet,

For what it is worth...
I've used Blackstone labs in the past and was satisfied with their analysis, turnaround time and cost.

If you don't mind, please share your results when obtained.

 

[marchanna]

I’ve used Blackstone and Oil Analyzers. Consistent results from both.

It certainly doesn’t hurt to run a few tests in short succession. It can tell you a fair bit about your engine and how well it’s running. Keep track of your hours.

 

[BigSteve63]

Normal is established with consistent samples.

If you are currently sending samples for analysis you know that already.

Samples are a good thing but require consistency.

^^ This ^^ Trends are the most important thing about oil analysis - a single snapshot of one sample won't tell you a lot. We use a company called ALS Tribology, but have also gotten great results from MobilServ (Signum), and Specto Scientific. Most should offer basic engine or industrial oil tests for 15 - 25 USD. Costs escalate quickly with additional testing, such as particle counts, etc., but are still worth it if they prevent a problem in your equipment.

Mobil used to provide a primer on wear metals and contaminants, along with the likely source of the problem - if you have a local ExxonMobil distributor, they may be able to provide this to you. Also, local distributors typically can assist with getting the oil analysis done.

Steve

 

[Beltzington]

I have used Blackstone for both my tractor and Diesel truck, interesting info but at the end of the day what are you going to do if analysis says possible wear? Very unlikely and not fiscally sound to rebuild an engine that is still performing fine. Maybe in fleet operations when extending time between oil changes or when rules such as TBO for aircraft it would be helpful but when you have a sample of one do the scheduled maintenance and drive it until it stops running.

 

[RoyKing]

I send a few samples in after break in to establish a level, then as I approach the end of warranty I sample again. Hoping if I see something going bad I will notify dealer an make claim for failing engine

 

[xcgreene]

I have used Blackstone for both my tractor and Diesel truck, interesting info but at the end of the day what are you going to do if analysis says possible wear? Very unlikely and not fiscally sound to rebuild an engine that is still performing fine. Maybe in fleet operations when extending time between oil changes or when rules such as TBO for aircraft it would be helpful but when you have a sample of one do the scheduled maintenance and drive it until it stops running.

If my sample trends tell me wear is increasing, I'll switch to a better grade oil, and change more often, with the intent of extending the engines life well beyond what it would have been if I kept using the same oil/change interval. Maintenance cost goes up a bit, but "it is what it is" as they say.

 

[NoPaint]

I send a few samples in after break in to establish a level, then as I approach the end of warranty I sample again. Hoping if I see something going bad I will notify dealer an make claim for failing engine

How receptive is the dealer and the manufacturers warranty program to an engine that is running but shows oil specs outside of parameter?

 

[DEWFPO]

How receptive is the dealer and the manufacturers warranty program to an engine that is running but shows oil specs outside of parameter?

Very Good Question.............

DEWFPO

 

[bdog]

I think it is a waste of time and money on smaller engines. A semi or piece of heavy machinery that holds ten gallons? Yeah maybe do the samples to make sure you aren’t dumping $200 of oil that is still good. On a small tractor or whatever that might hold $40 of oil why spend $25 to test it? Just replace it. I guess it would be good to know what the wear trends are but as someone else mentioned what are you really going to do with this info.

 

[Cat_Driver]

I think it is a waste of time and money on smaller engines. A semi or piece of heavy machinery that holds ten gallons? Yeah maybe do the samples to make sure you aren稚 dumping $200 of oil that is still good. On a small tractor or whatever that might hold $40 of oil why spend $25 to test it? Just replace it. I guess it would be good to know what the wear trends are but as someone else mentioned what are you really going to do with this info.

Since yopu don'y qualify what a "small engine is" I can only assume you mean car and pickup size engines. Common sense would make your statment false. Lets' take a diesel engine in a new Ford Truck for example.

Engine analysis give you advance notice of a pending engine failure - Please educate yourself here on the value of knowing what is going on with EVERY engine small of big.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/7-18-Boxster-Report.pdf

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/7-18-Avalon.pdf

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-...as-Diesel-2018-02-01-Four-Problem-Reports.pdf

 

[bdog]

Since yopu don'y qualify what a "small engine is" I can only assume you mean car and pickup size engines. Common sense would make your statment false. Lets' take a diesel engine in a new Ford Truck for example.

Engine analysis give you advance notice of a pending engine failure - Please educate yourself here on the value of knowing what is going on with EVERY engine small of big.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/7-18-Boxster-Report.pdf

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/7-18-Avalon.pdf

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-...as-Diesel-2018-02-01-Four-Problem-Reports.pdf

I thought I did specify as a small engine being something that holds around $40 of oil. I know that is not specific but as I said in my original post if the cost of changing the oil isn’t much more than the sample why not just change it? I also understand that the oil samples can give you wear trends and let you know something is wrong but again for me I just don’t see it being worthwhile. Others might.

I personally don’t have the time or the desire to keep up with it. I own around 25 things with engines. About 20 of them are diesel. Over the past twenty years I have had exactly one engine failure and that was on a used skid steer that I bought and the failure happened right after I bought it like in the first 100 hrs.I think the air filter was not installed properly and the engine sucked dirt in for who knows how long and the previous owner found the problem and sold it. Aside from that with 20+ things over 20 years and no engine failures. It just isn’t that big of a problem for me to want to bother with sending in samples on 20 things and trying to keep up with it all and worrying about what this number means and so on. I have enough stuff to worry about the last thing I want is to be up at night worrying about the xyz value is over spec on some engine I have. Again for others it might.

 

[masscity]

Don't assume that oil testing on a pickup engine is a waste of money. Back when I was working I had my Dodge Cummins test once a year. One report said dirt was getting past my air filter. Air filter wasn't tight enough and I changed to different filters.

Another report said that my oil filter went to bypass, I changed to a different oil filter. Blackstone saved me money.

 

[Mace Canute]

A UOA alerted me to the presence of coolant in the oil of my Chevy truck and I was able to remedy the problem before it damaged anything.