Slamfire
Veteran Member
My tractor was a 1976 model, built for Japanese drivers, six foot tall 200+ fat men need not try to jump.
Slope...what is safe?? Anyone here ever roll over?
- Thread starter adegiulio
- Start date
- Views: 82059
Libertine
Gold Member
Trev:
A better image than the Coyote cartoon character is to look at movies made of ships going down at sea. They always run opposite the roll, not towards itl. Wonder why?
Absolutely, turning into a downhill is certainly safer than the opposite. If you have time. My point of going slow is to, in effect, speed up your brain focus on immediate events, i.e. more cycles per second devoted to what's going on. It's my contention that the bottom line on accidents is lack of awareness of what is happening. When some situation is perceived as dangerous increasing focus so that more of your brain is devoted to immediate events greatly increases your chances. I can tell you, when the old farmall was on two wheels that was all I was focused on 100%, foot at the ready on the clutch, etc. I've done some silly things (mostly when very young - how about driving from Sardis, Miss to Memphis, Tenn in 30 minutes; average road speed 120 mph) but the few accidents I've had ALL came from lack of attention to what was going on.
Bird indicates the difficulty of leaping off a moving object. I wonder how many times he's done that?
Again, the bottom line, in my view, is enhanced awareness between extrenal events and your brain modeling of those events. The better it is, the better your chances. Awareness reduces accidents. Obliviousness increases accidents. As far as "situations" leading to dangerous conditions, remember Newton's first axiom "Every body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a right line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it." So it is with tractors, so it is with people. Everything.
JEH
A better image than the Coyote cartoon character is to look at movies made of ships going down at sea. They always run opposite the roll, not towards itl. Wonder why?
Absolutely, turning into a downhill is certainly safer than the opposite. If you have time. My point of going slow is to, in effect, speed up your brain focus on immediate events, i.e. more cycles per second devoted to what's going on. It's my contention that the bottom line on accidents is lack of awareness of what is happening. When some situation is perceived as dangerous increasing focus so that more of your brain is devoted to immediate events greatly increases your chances. I can tell you, when the old farmall was on two wheels that was all I was focused on 100%, foot at the ready on the clutch, etc. I've done some silly things (mostly when very young - how about driving from Sardis, Miss to Memphis, Tenn in 30 minutes; average road speed 120 mph) but the few accidents I've had ALL came from lack of attention to what was going on.
Bird indicates the difficulty of leaping off a moving object. I wonder how many times he's done that?
Again, the bottom line, in my view, is enhanced awareness between extrenal events and your brain modeling of those events. The better it is, the better your chances. Awareness reduces accidents. Obliviousness increases accidents. As far as "situations" leading to dangerous conditions, remember Newton's first axiom "Every body continues in its state of rest, or of uniform motion in a right line, unless it is compelled to change that state by forces impressed upon it." So it is with tractors, so it is with people. Everything.
JEH
DennisArrow
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 770
- Location
- Sugar Valley, Ga
- Tractor
- Iseki TL 2300, Kubota RTV, Kubota B7610
Read the whole thread........YES it happens before you can do THINK what to do.......the best thing as far as I am concerned is knowledge and PREVENTION......a slope indicator was mentioned once..........not to plug them; but R&B discussed heavily over in the Safety forum IS, for me, the only way to go..........It removes doubt and question from all work on a slope......totally worth reading and the small investment in your life.........GO slow and THINK........Dennis
fivestring
Veteran Member
I know what you mean....
When the pucker factor gets up to about 7, it makes you start thinking!!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
When the pucker factor gets up to about 7, it makes you start thinking!!! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
riptides
Super Star Member
On jumping.....
Guess I am an OH-fer NOT.
Course I am alive, if I had...
If....
Big word... little meaning now...
If.... -Mike Z.
Guess I am an OH-fer NOT.
Course I am alive, if I had...
If....
Big word... little meaning now...
If.... -Mike Z.
fivestring
Veteran Member
DennisArrow, on a slightly different note...
As a fellow Iseki owner, do you have a ROPS/belt on yours?
My wife is on me like white-on-rice to get one installed on mine. If so, who, where, how (much), etc.?
As a fellow Iseki owner, do you have a ROPS/belt on yours?
My wife is on me like white-on-rice to get one installed on mine. If so, who, where, how (much), etc.?
Trev
Platinum Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2002
- Messages
- 918
- Location
- Williamson, NY (near Rochester)
- Tractor
- Currently tractor-less
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Trev:
A better image than the Coyote cartoon character is to look at movies made of ships going down at sea. They always run opposite the roll, not towards itl. Wonder why?)</font>
Grim,
Maybe even a better analogy yet would be those guys who run on floating logs.. running like mad with the log rotating under them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I would guess, hever having seen it happen, that a big ship turns over a lot more slowly than a tractor would? This would give them time to get to the upper side, which of course is a better place to be if you can pull it off.
Let's hope nobody here (or anywhere for that matter) has a need to test any of these theories!!
Gotta agree with your ideas about slowing things down enough to give the brain time to process and focus more clearly. Of course with a HST you could accelerate quickly if necessary.. but on a gear trans you wouldn't have time to change gears, etc.
Best,
Bob
A better image than the Coyote cartoon character is to look at movies made of ships going down at sea. They always run opposite the roll, not towards itl. Wonder why?)</font>
Grim,
Maybe even a better analogy yet would be those guys who run on floating logs.. running like mad with the log rotating under them. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I would guess, hever having seen it happen, that a big ship turns over a lot more slowly than a tractor would? This would give them time to get to the upper side, which of course is a better place to be if you can pull it off.
Let's hope nobody here (or anywhere for that matter) has a need to test any of these theories!!
Gotta agree with your ideas about slowing things down enough to give the brain time to process and focus more clearly. Of course with a HST you could accelerate quickly if necessary.. but on a gear trans you wouldn't have time to change gears, etc.
Best,
Bob
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 66,161
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
<font color="blue"> What is a safe uphill slope for a tractor? Downhill the same as uphill? How about horizontally, what is a comfortable slope to traverse hills.
</font>
Never exceed the manufacturers recommendation. (now there's a weenie, no-sue-em answer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Hard to say. As many people have answered, the angle can change very quickly if you hit a rut or rock and the angle can be irrelevant if the tractor's center of gravity is higher or lower than what the manufacturer tested at because of implements, weights, etc... My suggestion would be to get familiar with the machine on flat land. Go slow and build up your confidence, skill and familiarity with your machine and your work area. Practice safe work habits. Walk the areas that you intend to operate on before you operate. Always use the safety equipment no matter what. That means ROPS and seat belt at all times, every time, even just backing in and out of the garage. Roll overs can happen on flat ground too. You could hook something with a towed implement and over you go backwards before you can react to it. High speed turns can cause a flip to the side or roll over. I had my tractor going all out mowing about 8-9 MPH and started making turns. Wide sweeping turns. They felt very comfortable, so I started making each successive turn tighter and tighter just to see what would happen(I use to do this kind of stuff in cars too, just to see how they would handle). One turn too tight and I was up on three wheels. I pulled my joystick from float to lock(my mower is mounted on the FEL arms) and that tended to act as outriggers and I didn't go over. I don't know if I would have gone over had I not done this, but if I had hit a dip or rock at the same time I got up on three wheels, my guess(just a guess) is that I probably would have gone over.
Another problem is, some people get complacent about safety and paying attention. How often have any of us been out mowing and just gotten into it and started zoning out? Down the field. Up the field. Down the field. Heck, you start thinking about other things, and before you know it the field is done and you wonder how you got there so fast. Were you paying attention the entire time? Try to remember when you passed that tree. Can you? That's why it is important to be alert and focused on what you are doing at all times. With a high level of focus and a familiarity with your machine, you will probably get out of sticky situations quickly and safely every time(you may not even get into sticky situations ever if you plan well). However, for those times that you can't you have to rely on your safety equipment. I wouldn't attempt a jump from a rolling tractor for anything. If you jump to the downhill side, you'll probably get squished. If you try to jump to the uphill side, you probably won't make it over the top but at least you'd have better odds going uphill than downhill.
As for turning into the ditch if you detect a roll is eminent, that might just work. Hope your seat belt is on, because you'll be eating the hood when the front of the tractor meets the other side of the ditch. But that beats rolling and then lying submerged under water strapped in to your seatbelt, knowing you lived through a roll over but will drown in a minute or two. You probably shouldn't have been that close to the ditch to start with. Just stay away from them or get the proper equipment to mow them. Better yet, plant some ground cover and never mow it again. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, those are just my opinions. Thanks for listening.
This has been a great discussion so far. Good questions. Good answers. Hope everyone takes the time to become familiar with their machine and practice safe operating techniques. Best wishes to all.
</font>
Never exceed the manufacturers recommendation. (now there's a weenie, no-sue-em answer /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) Hard to say. As many people have answered, the angle can change very quickly if you hit a rut or rock and the angle can be irrelevant if the tractor's center of gravity is higher or lower than what the manufacturer tested at because of implements, weights, etc... My suggestion would be to get familiar with the machine on flat land. Go slow and build up your confidence, skill and familiarity with your machine and your work area. Practice safe work habits. Walk the areas that you intend to operate on before you operate. Always use the safety equipment no matter what. That means ROPS and seat belt at all times, every time, even just backing in and out of the garage. Roll overs can happen on flat ground too. You could hook something with a towed implement and over you go backwards before you can react to it. High speed turns can cause a flip to the side or roll over. I had my tractor going all out mowing about 8-9 MPH and started making turns. Wide sweeping turns. They felt very comfortable, so I started making each successive turn tighter and tighter just to see what would happen(I use to do this kind of stuff in cars too, just to see how they would handle). One turn too tight and I was up on three wheels. I pulled my joystick from float to lock(my mower is mounted on the FEL arms) and that tended to act as outriggers and I didn't go over. I don't know if I would have gone over had I not done this, but if I had hit a dip or rock at the same time I got up on three wheels, my guess(just a guess) is that I probably would have gone over.
Another problem is, some people get complacent about safety and paying attention. How often have any of us been out mowing and just gotten into it and started zoning out? Down the field. Up the field. Down the field. Heck, you start thinking about other things, and before you know it the field is done and you wonder how you got there so fast. Were you paying attention the entire time? Try to remember when you passed that tree. Can you? That's why it is important to be alert and focused on what you are doing at all times. With a high level of focus and a familiarity with your machine, you will probably get out of sticky situations quickly and safely every time(you may not even get into sticky situations ever if you plan well). However, for those times that you can't you have to rely on your safety equipment. I wouldn't attempt a jump from a rolling tractor for anything. If you jump to the downhill side, you'll probably get squished. If you try to jump to the uphill side, you probably won't make it over the top but at least you'd have better odds going uphill than downhill.
As for turning into the ditch if you detect a roll is eminent, that might just work. Hope your seat belt is on, because you'll be eating the hood when the front of the tractor meets the other side of the ditch. But that beats rolling and then lying submerged under water strapped in to your seatbelt, knowing you lived through a roll over but will drown in a minute or two. You probably shouldn't have been that close to the ditch to start with. Just stay away from them or get the proper equipment to mow them. Better yet, plant some ground cover and never mow it again. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, those are just my opinions. Thanks for listening.
This has been a great discussion so far. Good questions. Good answers. Hope everyone takes the time to become familiar with their machine and practice safe operating techniques. Best wishes to all.
riptides
Super Star Member
Mossroad,
On uphill vs. downhill jumping.....
My instincts took over after the initial nano-seconds that followed realizing I was in a roll.
The uphill jump, would have worked, IF the tractor had not been coming UP to meet me. Thus, my foot getting stuck in the clutch/brake area.
I think If I would have went downhill, I would have been even
more squished.
But, instincts told me to go over the top. Something about that just seemed right. Sort of like falling, you don't jump into it, you kind of hold back, looking for something to hang on to.
-Interesting eh?
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
On uphill vs. downhill jumping.....
My instincts took over after the initial nano-seconds that followed realizing I was in a roll.
The uphill jump, would have worked, IF the tractor had not been coming UP to meet me. Thus, my foot getting stuck in the clutch/brake area.
I think If I would have went downhill, I would have been even
more squished.
But, instincts told me to go over the top. Something about that just seemed right. Sort of like falling, you don't jump into it, you kind of hold back, looking for something to hang on to.
-Interesting eh?
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
chrisjbell
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2000
- Messages
- 956
- Tractor
- Kubota B7300; JD LX233
<font color="blue"> I think the best mind set is to believe there is no safe slope for a tractor!.
</font>
Absolutely right - you can roll a tractor on level ground. Over the 4th weekend there was a guy using his tractor to pull a float. After the parade he made a sharp turn too fast and rolled it. Killed him. Might have hit a pothole or something, but this was on a city street.
Having said that, I regularly use my tractor on slopes that are in the 20+ degree range. Go slow, keep it low, and keep an eye on the tilt-meter. Also definately listen to your instincts and if you are concerned about being able to do something, don't.
</font>
Absolutely right - you can roll a tractor on level ground. Over the 4th weekend there was a guy using his tractor to pull a float. After the parade he made a sharp turn too fast and rolled it. Killed him. Might have hit a pothole or something, but this was on a city street.
Having said that, I regularly use my tractor on slopes that are in the 20+ degree range. Go slow, keep it low, and keep an eye on the tilt-meter. Also definately listen to your instincts and if you are concerned about being able to do something, don't.
DennisArrow
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 770
- Location
- Sugar Valley, Ga
- Tractor
- Iseki TL 2300, Kubota RTV, Kubota B7610
Gary............my TL 2300 has a ROPS permanently installed....with a really neat canvas canopy.......looks to me like it came from the factory.........it is bolted to the frame with 15mm bolts and is 2" or so square tubing.......hope I never have to test it..........got seat belts from an auto supply place and installed them..........Wish I could help you more......maybe Shaeffer Supply or EFC could help you.....Dennis
PondKeeper
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2002
- Messages
- 158
- Tractor
- Kubota B7500, New Holland LS45
Past Saturday I was clearing cattails along the edge of my pond, I went to clear another section that I knew had some testy slope, it sure did /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif. I was belted in with the ROPS up and I was just creaping along when the sod just gave out and I started sliding towards the pond, only about six feet of turf to spare. Pretty scary for a second, no thought of bailing but I dropped the FEL (it was empty) and stopped the front moving and the rear settled a foot later. The slope wasn't toooo bad, I was about 15 on the tilt meter but the ground was the surprise. I had walked and checked that area a dozen times in the prior 24 hours and the footing was dry, but not six inches deep where it broke free.
I curled the FEL upward and backed up literally with the FEL touching the ground for support until I was out of trouble
I /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif had to go dig out the old wheel barrow and do the repairs the old fashioned way.
Mike
I curled the FEL upward and backed up literally with the FEL touching the ground for support until I was out of trouble
I /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif had to go dig out the old wheel barrow and do the repairs the old fashioned way.
Mike
fivestring
Veteran Member
Thanks, Dennis.
Libertine
Gold Member
Trev:
Yeah, in real time rolling logs good image. Have never seen ship roll personally, but seen a number of video images (taken in real life).
As far as HST vs gear, suspect you're not going to have time to do anything with EITHER of them. Also, if you panic react with the HST you could make whatever is happening far worse. The whole issue is lack of time to carefully reason it all out while it is happening.
riptides:
Gee, you must have the fastest brain in the universe! In my old age and approaching senility if I can muster 3 or 4 cycles per second I'm doing pretty good. To measure reaction time in nano-seconds. Wow.
et al:
Some of the accidents/situations described very thought provoking. Unanticipated sinking through/sliding down ground interesting - have had ground give way knowing I was in loose area, but never out of the blue. You never know!
JEH
Yeah, in real time rolling logs good image. Have never seen ship roll personally, but seen a number of video images (taken in real life).
As far as HST vs gear, suspect you're not going to have time to do anything with EITHER of them. Also, if you panic react with the HST you could make whatever is happening far worse. The whole issue is lack of time to carefully reason it all out while it is happening.
riptides:
Gee, you must have the fastest brain in the universe! In my old age and approaching senility if I can muster 3 or 4 cycles per second I'm doing pretty good. To measure reaction time in nano-seconds. Wow.
et al:
Some of the accidents/situations described very thought provoking. Unanticipated sinking through/sliding down ground interesting - have had ground give way knowing I was in loose area, but never out of the blue. You never know!
JEH
DavidB
Member
Good discussions.... I have been lucky with this, not skillful, but lucky. I've tipped two tractors (not rolled them) and was lucky to get the education without injury. The first time I was on a slight slope moving dirt and picked the load up too high. As I raised the bucket to dump it the tractor which was sitting still started to tip over sideways! I had no idea that this was even possible. This was a little compact tractor. Immediately lowering the bucket fixed it, but it got my attention.
I own a huge farm tractor and the wheelbase is so wide and the tractor is so heavy that tipping is not an issue for any situation I'd find myself in. Reading about snagging an implement or attaching one too high and flipping a farm tractor over backwards is scary though. You are squished before you even know it's happening.
The second tip was with my BX22. I was using the backhoe and got off to move the tractor forward a foot or two. I didn't put the belt on of course since I was on level ground and only moving the tractor inches. Flipped the seat around and pulled forward a foot or two and one of the back wheels climbed a chunk of wood hiding in the blackberries I was working in. The tractor tipped about to the balance point and I found myself standing (on the "downhill side" of the tractor) before I even realized what was happening. With no suspension on the rear, the tractor goes sideways with a vengeance when something like that happens. I got lucky both times, but am trying to be much more religious about wearing the belt!
Remember too that you may not be the only one using your tractor. Make sure that everybody else wears the seatbelt too...
I own a huge farm tractor and the wheelbase is so wide and the tractor is so heavy that tipping is not an issue for any situation I'd find myself in. Reading about snagging an implement or attaching one too high and flipping a farm tractor over backwards is scary though. You are squished before you even know it's happening.
The second tip was with my BX22. I was using the backhoe and got off to move the tractor forward a foot or two. I didn't put the belt on of course since I was on level ground and only moving the tractor inches. Flipped the seat around and pulled forward a foot or two and one of the back wheels climbed a chunk of wood hiding in the blackberries I was working in. The tractor tipped about to the balance point and I found myself standing (on the "downhill side" of the tractor) before I even realized what was happening. With no suspension on the rear, the tractor goes sideways with a vengeance when something like that happens. I got lucky both times, but am trying to be much more religious about wearing the belt!
Remember too that you may not be the only one using your tractor. Make sure that everybody else wears the seatbelt too...
Attachments
GaryM
Veteran Member
I was using the FEL on my JD4100 to remove some bushes for a friend last fall. I must have had a combination of low front tire pressure and an unbalanced load on the FEL, because as I curled the bucket to tear out the bush, the left front of the tractor went down and the right rear tire came about a foot and a half off the ground! Well it felt that high anyway. I gingerly dumped the bucket and the back settled down.
That's close enough for me! I don't ever want to roll or tip any further. I was wearing my belt, but I think the pucker factor kept me in the seat as much as the belt did.
That's close enough for me! I don't ever want to roll or tip any further. I was wearing my belt, but I think the pucker factor kept me in the seat as much as the belt did.
Henro
Super Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 5,005
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
<font color="blue"> That's close enough for me! I don't ever want to roll or tip any further. I was wearing my belt, but I think the pucker factor kept me in the seat as much as the belt did. </font>
GaryM...you may have discovered something here...I have never seen mention on TBN of the pucker factor having a suction aspect!
I'll have to keep watch for this and report back if I can confirm your fingings! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
GaryM...you may have discovered something here...I have never seen mention on TBN of the pucker factor having a suction aspect!
I'll have to keep watch for this and report back if I can confirm your fingings! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
yellowdog99502
Bronze Member
Bill,
There's another phrase that goes along with the 'suction factor'.
In a previous life I was working in Alaska on several construction projects. A partner in our architectural firm had fallen about 60 feet from a steeply pitched roof on one our projects. He lived to tell about it with only a broken leg. When they let me into see him at the hospital his first comment about sliding towards the edge of the roof was (I apologize now if this offends) "My a--hole tried to grow teeth".
When you think about it, makes sense . . . . . .
Don
There's another phrase that goes along with the 'suction factor'.
In a previous life I was working in Alaska on several construction projects. A partner in our architectural firm had fallen about 60 feet from a steeply pitched roof on one our projects. He lived to tell about it with only a broken leg. When they let me into see him at the hospital his first comment about sliding towards the edge of the roof was (I apologize now if this offends) "My a--hole tried to grow teeth".
When you think about it, makes sense . . . . . .
Don
Libertine
Gold Member
Henro:
<font color="blue">GaryM...you may have discovered something here...I have never seen mention on TBN of the pucker factor having a suction aspect!
I'll have to keep watch for this and report back if I can confirm your fingings! </font>
Excellent thought. I just knew there had to be a way to be safe without a seatbelt. Use astringent in lieu of the seatbelt. Do ya think alum would work? Good idea.
JEH
<font color="blue">GaryM...you may have discovered something here...I have never seen mention on TBN of the pucker factor having a suction aspect!
I'll have to keep watch for this and report back if I can confirm your fingings! </font>
Excellent thought. I just knew there had to be a way to be safe without a seatbelt. Use astringent in lieu of the seatbelt. Do ya think alum would work? Good idea.
JEH
GaryM
Veteran Member
Maybe fasten a saddle horn to the middle of the seat for emergency use?
