source for D03 solenoid valve with "Deutsch Connector" (lower height/clearance)

[orangetree]

I need a D03 manifold & valves with slightly lower height. The common style with "DIN" connectors is typically about 6.5" tall - slightly too tall to fit where I'd prefer to mount it.

The best option I've found would be these, with "Deutsch Connectors". The lower total heigh, around 5.5", would fit fine.

I can't find a source. Summit sells them but only as part of a full kit which I don't need and is 2x the price. For stand-alone D03 manifolds & valves, they only sell the DIN connector style, and won't substitute.

For reference here's the (taller) "din" style

Specifically I need a 3-valve series manifold, all hyvair 2c flow (Tandem Center), if that matters. I've chosen industrial (Dxx) valves over a monblock or cartridge or here because

• I don't want the unpressurized cylinder return flow to dump-to-tank (need it all flowing out the "power beyond"port - all monoblock valves i can find do support PB, but only route the cylinder 'exhaust' to atmospheric]tank port),
• the Dxx valves have significantly lower pressure loss / waste heat than say cartridge valves when in center position. (and I can't find an easy source off-the-shelf for series-plumbed cartridge valve manifolds - seems the market is all custom applications?)
• a totally different style (wiring out the end of the solenoid?) would be great, too, i am just not seeing anything

Thanks!

 

[oldnslo]

Have you already purchased the DIN valves? If not Eaton - Vickers, Parker, Rexroth all have Deutsch connector options.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Maybe here?

D03 SOLENOID OPERATED DIRECTIONAL CONTROL VALVES | Trausch Dynamics

5075 Maximum PSI 26.4 Maximum GPM* 3045 Maximum PSI on Tank Core Mounting Surface: D03 IP65 Protection, Deutsch is IP69K Protection UL, CSA, CE Approvals Conduit Box Electrical Option has standard Indication Lights DIN Connector Electrical Option ...

www.hydraulicstore.com

 

[orangetree]

Maybe here?

D03 SOLENOID OPERATED DIRECTIONAL CONTROL VALVES | Trausch Dynamics

5075 Maximum PSI 26.4 Maximum GPM* 3045 Maximum PSI on Tank Core Mounting Surface: D03 IP65 Protection, Deutsch is IP69K Protection UL, CSA, CE Approvals Conduit Box Electrical Option has standard Indication Lights DIN Connector Electrical Option ...

www.hydraulicstore.com

Thanks, that's at least the right model, and for sale with a price! FWIW, I had searched bailey's and grainger and surpluscenter (plenty of valves, no Deutsch as best i can tell). Also, Hyvair has a sku for these, D03sds (vs the typical D03s; and they also have a bare-lead version D03L which would be even better) - but I can't find them for sale, at least not through my online search.



I understand places like Summit can likely get very good prices by either going abroad, and/or just selling a decent number of a limited set of skus ... but at 3x$225 + ~$200 for a manifold; that's roughly the same price as Summit sells the whole kit (brackets, fittings, harness, switch); Hoses are probably throw-away for me, but much of the rest is usable.

How's the quality of Summit parts? Any suggestions on cheaper options for what I'm doing?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

What is it that you want to do, and for what purpose?

Why not just use manual valves?

 

[orangetree]

What is it that you want to do, and for what purpose?

Why not just use manual valves?

three solenoid valves - two rear solenoid remotes (top & tilt, a personal project I'd like to automate), and a 3rd function (grapple via new rocker on loader lever). All Tandem valved

Grapple circuit is mandatory, and needed now - and overall effort isn't a whole lot more (esp considering the final install will be a lot cleaner with just one manifold), so i'm doing all three now, one trip to the hose shop, etc.

Edit: I should add that, for my small tractor / open-center system, afaict this setup (industrial valves, single-manifold) is about as good as I'm going to get for "parasitic" losses with all valves in center, with an off-the-shelf solution ... absolutely open to a better option.

 

[orangetree]

I should add that one "less-common" design goal for the 3rd function / grapple:

I would like to be able to operate the grapple AND the loader, at FULL FLOW, for "unloaded repositioning" operations - eg, open grapple & lower FEL with both going at full speed (full hydraulic flow). I'm accomplishing this by putting the new valve block (also, the required OP valve) upstream of my FEL valve.

Obviously this "free lunch" isn't actually that.

• if i fully open / dead-head one of these valves, or otherwise stop/slow movement of the cylinder, the OP valve triggers and there is no flow downstream to the FEL. But this is fine, i'm aware of it while using.
• If I try to move a load with grapple and FEL simultaneously, I'm still working within the limits of my system pressure.
• but unlike a monoblock (at least the ones i can find), which supports PB but shunts flow from the unloaded cylinder to [atmosphere pressure] tank, not PB, I at least have the option of using full-flow for both simultaneously, such as when their unloaded and I'm just moving around / positioning to grab something.

 

[ptsg]

I should add that one "less-common" design goal for the 3rd function / grapple:

I would like to be able to operate the grapple AND the loader, at FULL FLOW, for "unloaded repositioning" operations - eg, open grapple & lower FEL with both going at full speed (full hydraulic flow). I'm accomplishing this by putting the new valve block (also, the required OP valve) upstream of my FEL valve.

Obviously this "free lunch" isn't actually that.

• if i fully open / dead-head one of these valves, or otherwise stop/slow movement of the cylinder, the OP valve triggers and there is no flow downstream to the FEL. But this is fine, i'm aware of it while using.
• If I try to move a load with grapple and FEL simultaneously, I'm still working within the limits of my system pressure.
• but unlike a monoblock (at least the ones i can find), which supports PB but shunts flow from the unloaded cylinder to [atmosphere pressure] tank, not PB, I at least have the option of using full-flow for both simultaneously, such as when their unloaded and I'm just moving around / positioning to grab something.

If you want to put the new valve block right after the pump, don't forget one thing, those blocks typically don't have a relief valve unless you specify one. Things get a lot more expensive if you blow the pump.

 

[orangetree]

don't forget one thing, those blocks typically don't have a relief valve unless you specify one.

new valve block (also, the required OP valve) upstream of my FEL valvevalve

Absolutely! but thanks for being sure

The only potential issue i see here is that, without a dump to tank, the "industrial" valves in series have the possibility of introducing overpressure downstream:

• Valve 1 open to extend the cylinder, which is partway through its stroke and ~unloaded
• Something downstream blocksflow:
  • In my proposal this would be a valve in the d03 manifold, since the next item after the d03 manifold is the FEL's overpressure valve
  • In the typical plumbing of these "industrial valves as rear remotes" (summit) or as 3rd function (4port wrlong), the d03 manifold is in series upstream of at least the 3pt hitch valves, for which there are no OP valves afaict
  • Same issue either way ^
• Now the "free to move, except flow is blocked" cylinder on valve one acts as a pressure multiplier

Especially if the ratio of blind/rod areas in the cylinder is high (like 2-to-1), this would seem to theoretically double (eg, ~~6000 psi!) The pressure seen downstream. Thats ... hose burst level??

I would have discarded this whole idea, except this exact same (theoretical?) issue is induced by well-respected aftermarket solutions afaict?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

All I'm going to say any further is that you should be sure of when you purchase whatever it ends up being that the supplier will stand behind the product when-if there are issues. Some of these places DO NOT.

Good luck with the project.

 

[orangetree]

All I'm going to say any further is that you should be sure of when you purchase whatever it ends up being that the supplier will stand behind the product when-if there are issues. Some of these places DO NOT.

Good luck with the project.

I know there is some overlap in what you/Fit-Rite sells (and I had a great experience ordering Euro 3-pt hooks from you, thanks; and of course greatly appreciate your contributions here on the public forum.)

It does seem another benefit of industrial (Dxx) manifolds & valves is they are a commodity that I can replace locally if needed (and presumably the manifold itself, a static component, to outlast anything moving on the tractor). Vs say a `monoblock` which is more custom maintanence wise

I already searched for positive/negative feedback on Summit in particular on TBN, but didn't find much; sorta surprising as they seem to be one of the only games in town for what they do offer (mostly ready-to-go kits for most makes, along with misc hydraulic parts, with a web store that allows some level of research to be done directly). Anything i missed on folks having a bad experience?



TBH i didn't remember FitRite sells some 3rd function kits. The pictures at valves seem to be cartridge style (or are those just all diverters?). I was not currently considering cartridge due to the higher pressure drop; running 3 in series is quite a loss - but their compact form factor would be great.

 

[oldnslo]

Orangetree
What is the flow rating of your tractor? Reason for asking is that typically the tandem center spool has the highest pressure of all the spool options. Also does manifold manufacturer publish pressure drop vs flow data for series manifolds? D03 is typically around 1/4 hole and possibly less if angle drilled for series circuit.

As point of reference I looked at Rexroth and Eaton D03 10 GPM is around 70 PSI per valve 5 GPM approx 20 PSI

 

[orangetree]

Orangetree
What is the flow rating of your tractor? Reason for asking is that typically the tandem center spool has the highest pressure of all the spool options. Also does manifold manufacturer publish pressure drop vs flow data for series manifolds? D03 is typically around 1/4 hole and possibly less if angle drilled for series circuit.

As point of reference I looked at Rexroth and Eaton D03 10 GPM is around 70 PSI per valve 5 GPM approx 20 PSI

Yes, I'm concerned about this; cartridge valves while smaller would be even worse. My tractor is only 6-7gpm for the implements, so on the lower end there, but as you say that's PER VALVE. As opposed to a monoblock design which (according to Summit & how I read this chart - i believe the curve ID's are the number of valves in the unit) - only about 20psi total for 5gpm flow

summit monoblock (Badestnost brand) P->T pressure drops (z80 / "21gpm" model), but number of spools. Note technically this is the manual version, not the solenoid version).

Hyvair D03 valves (#2c [tandem flow] P->T is curve 3

Another option i am considering would be to use one D05 valve, routed to two (stacked) diverters. The diverters are bad for pressure drop, too BUT:

• my three circuits here are Top&Tilt + Grapple - none of the cylinders are needed simultaneously
• they're all relatively small, so having the D05 would minimize typical losses (no grapple or TnT use), and only incur those penalties momentarily while actually using those circuits.

D05 has ~10psi drop @ ~5ppm and ~30psi drop @ ~10gpm, dramatically lower than D03 (D04 flow #2c (tandem) P->T is curve 6 here)

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I know there is some overlap in what you/Fit-Rite sells (and I had a great experience ordering Euro 3-pt hooks from you, thanks; and of course greatly appreciate your contributions here on the public forum.)

It does seem another benefit of industrial (Dxx) manifolds & valves is they are a commodity that I can replace locally if needed (and presumably the manifold itself, a static component, to outlast anything moving on the tractor). Vs say a `monoblock` which is more custom maintanence wise

I already searched for positive/negative feedback on Summit in particular on TBN, but didn't find much; sorta surprising as they seem to be one of the only games in town for what they do offer (mostly ready-to-go kits for most makes, along with misc hydraulic parts, with a web store that allows some level of research to be done directly). Anything i missed on folks having a bad experience?



TBH i didn't remember FitRite sells some 3rd function kits. The pictures at valves seem to be cartridge style (or are those just all diverters?). I was not currently considering cartridge due to the higher pressure drop; running 3 in series is quite a loss - but their compact form factor would be great.

A few things to consider.
Are you sure you want electric valves for a T&T setup? They absolutely are not a preferred method for controlling any cylinder that may need very fine adjustments. You need to be able to feather the controls for ideal control.
There are many benefits to having the float feature on the valves that control the T&T cylinders, you are not going to get that with these electric valves.
A lot of my customers that have gone with the electric valves have ended up coming back to me for check valves for the cylinders.

I no longer sell separate 3rd function kits. The valves pictured under valves are Bosch diverter valves for rear remote applications.

You might want to call directly and see what they have to say. Who knows, maybe they have made some improvements.

Again, good luck with your project.

 

[orangetree]

Also does manifold manufacturer publish pressure drop vs flow data for series manifolds? D03 is typically around 1/4 hole and possibly less if angle drilled for series circuit.

I wasn't able to find pressure drop for a series manifold. I would really like to know, thought!

 

[oldnslo]

I wasn't able to find pressure drop for a series manifold. I would really like to know, thought!

My best estimate is that there will be similar or higher pressure drop between each valve as there is through each valve. This is purely an estimate on my part.

like Brian - MtnViewRanch I question the use of solenoid valves since you zero feathering capabilities.

some companies offer series circuits in there mobile sandwich style valves. I think Brand, Prince Hydraulics, Bucher and probably others all offer this option. Not sure if float is option available with series though. Should be on last section of valve stack. Doubtful you would find a valve assembly at surplus or discount store.

 

[orangetree]

My best estimate is that there will be similar or higher pressure drop between each valve as there is through each valve. This is purely an estimate on my part.

if this is even close to accurate, i really should just use a monoblock (not a standard / repairable - but folks seem to have them last), or my single D03 + port multiplier (doesn't package as out-of-the-way)

200+ psi drop or more PSI is definitely way too much to loose - that's over 3/4 hp (and my rig is only putting 10hp (optimistically) in fluid power.

like Brian - MtnViewRanch I question the use of solenoid valves since you zero feathering capabilities.

Want to make sure i'm not missing a hole in my requirements/design:

• two uses for these new circuits:
  • top-and-tilt. Three point hitch already has the "float" needed. and absolutely feathering would be nice, but I don't want to pay for a proportional valve (perhaps better put - if i were to spend that kind of money, I should upgrade my FEL valve itself to something easier to feather, especially down when loaded)
    • if these (smaller diameter) cylinders move too violently, a flow restrictor on the cylinder would help?
  • Grapple - no feathering for this. I might install a counterbalance or a cushion valve to help keep the equipment safe if it accidentally becomes a lever-arm

I understand driving these with a "square wave" is not ideal - but it is how all hobby-tractor 3rd function's work afaict? In addition that I hope to get to the small controls project to control the T&T at some point, I also like keeping everything compact & out of the way (no extra lever mounted up on my fender). Will I be unsatisfied here? Thanks!

 

[oldnslo]

Orange
I just thought of something that must be considered. Where is the relief valve in your system today? If in the FEL valve you will have to have one before your D03 manifold or a custom D03 with two tank ports. One for power beyond to feed the FEL valve and second as true tank for the relief valve.

I may be (probably am) the odd ball but I want ability to feather my add on thumb type grapple. I want the ability to slowly open or close the thumb vs all or nothing from solenoid valve. Like some I put a diverter in the curl dump circuit and select curl bucket or close grapple with pushbutton on joystick. Yes either or but very rarely am I worried about speed.

If your circuit requires multiple function operation then series is the simplest solution with the limitations that you have expressed.


There are pros and cons to both. Big questions are how often do you run full throttle for extended periods of time? How effective is the heat exchanger on your tractor.

Not trying to be a killjoy just trying to share some concerns and things to consider.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

The hitch has float, but that is for both arms connected together. Having float for the side link allows the left & right sides to float independently which simply increases your tractors capabilities. Same goes for having float for the top link, there are certain tasks that benefit from these options. Do you need these options, absolutely not.

As far as having a flow restrictor to control the speed, yes you can do that, but you still have only 1 set speed. I feather my controls and I have flow restrictors.

I'm not saying that what you want to do won't work, it will. Just that there are better ways to have the controls to achieve the best possible control.

To get what you want, there will be compromises made, no doubt.

 

[orangetree]

Orange
I just thought of something that must be considered. Where is the relief valve in your system today? If in the FEL valve you will have to have one before your D03 manifold
[...]
How effective is the heat exchanger on your tractor.

Sorry, I should have spelled it out in my OriginalPost - I meant OverPressure valve. Definitely required if i go upstream of FEL valve, as otherwise I'd blow the pump when the cylinder is dead-headed:

valve block (also, the required OP valve) upstream of my FEL valvevalve

And on the heat / power loss - I think you're probably right, or at least close enough, on the losses in the series manifold. So this pushes "constant" / parasitic loss up to something like 200+psi. That's pushing 1hp of losses, more than 10% of what my hydraulic system is capable of. Heat is a real concern there, but i don't think that's worth it just considering the loss of power. As such, i think I have to discard using D03's for this. D05's would be fine - except I can probably only fit one + the new pressure relief in the area i wanted to mount this, meaning then I need a port-multiplier.

That port multiplier could probably be something very compact like cartridge valves, since they would incur no losses except when actively in use (realistically it's just fine if i loose 10-20% of my total power just when using Grapple or Top&Tilt, since neither of those really need the full power) - but now i'm back to square one of where to mount that clean / out of the way ....

I think i have to prioritize my marriage over upgrading to a tractor that is a little more appropriate for this, lol - so I'm definitely motivated to make something I'm happy with long term here. It's just pretty annoying for sure.