Starter solenoid

[Brady D]

My ford 1910 like many old tractors turns over rather slowly when cranking. So I was wondering if I replaced the solenoid if it would make it any faster or does the whole starter need to be replaced? Also if a solenoid would make a difference what size and type would I need? Thanks for any help.

 

[Hay Dude]

My ford 1910 like many old tractors turns over rather slowly when cranking. So I was wondering if I replaced the solenoid if it would make it any faster or does the whole starter need to be replaced? Also if a solenoid would make a difference what size and type would I need? Thanks for any help.

You sure it’s not just cold weather weakening your battery? It’s unusually cold in TN.
Solenoids stick or fail.

 

[DJ54]

Is the battery the correct size in cold cranking amps..?? I'm seeing 2 listed for it, 750 cca, and 950 cca. Have the battery cables been replaced, if so with correct gauge..?? The experience I've had with a few tractors out of 20 that have a solenoid, seems they either work, or don't work.

 

[eKretz]

There's no easy way to answer that question without you doing the work of pulling the starter out and having a look at it, the solenoid and also the positive and ground wires from the battery and their connection points. All of these are possible points of failure that may cause slow cranking. I just fixed mine on a Ford 555D. On my machine, it had cranked very slowly ever since I got it. I tried removing all the wires and cleaning connection points with no change. Finally it quit cranking altogether.

Had power going into the starter when I turned the key but the starter wasn't doing anything. Pulled the starter and had a look. Someone at some point had replaced an insulating washer at the starter terminal lug with a steel one. So ever since that time, some of the current was going through the starter and some was going through that washer directly to ground.

Eventually, over the years, the heat there got to be more and more and burned out the insulator bushing around the lug, causing it to conduct even more current straight to ground. Finally it gave up the ghost and melted a brass nut, and also the solder that was securing the field winding to the starter lug terminal. I could have just repaired the starter by picking up a new lug terminal and insulators, but I ended up ordering one from Broken Tractor before I fully realized what the problem was. I'll rebuild the old one still and set it on the shelf for a spare. With the new starter the machine cranks like brand new again, very fast.

 

[rScotty]

My ford 1910 like many old tractors turns over rather slowly when cranking. So I was wondering if I replaced the solenoid if it would make it any faster or does the whole starter need to be replaced? Also if a solenoid would make a difference what size and type would I need? Thanks for any help.

It's usually the battery or the battery cable connections to the battery posts. Or in the case of the cable from the negative terminal also clean its connection to the tractor frame.

Any DC voltmeter across the battery will tell you if the battery is good. It should charge to almost 13/14 volts when running or chargeing, and still be above 12.4 volts after sitting a day after it has been run or charged.

Solenoids usually work or not. They don't get weak. If it clicks when you turn the key and the starter begins to crank then it most probably isn NOT the solenoid. Starters do get weak and benefit from new brushes...but that is after thousands of tractor hours. BTW, your OEM starter is worth rebuilding rather than replacing.

But I'm betting it's the battery and/or cables. And I'm betting most other mechanics will agree.
rScotty

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Everyone should have a battery load tester ($25) and a multimeter ($50).
Compare voltage across battery while cranking which should be same at starter.
Measure from battery --negative to starter case...should be 0 zero volts, otherwise bad ground.

 

[Gator6x4]

Auto Zone and a few other places will load test your starter to see if it is failing. Check at the auto parts places at your locale and see if one of them will test the starter. A starter is a starter. The Auto Store will probably not be able to source a starter for you through their normal supply network. But, if the starter tests bad I am sure you could source one at your tractor dealer. You might also want to take your battery along and have it load tested also.

 

[eKretz]

I like this battery load tester a lot better than the modern ones. And while I would agree that cables are a good first place to check, I never make assumptions about what I will find as a problem. Every machine has been through different things. Differing levels of experience and expertise of the guys who have worked on the machines are a major factor in likely problems.

 

[DWD.IN]

I'm not familiar with the 1910's, does the tractor have a charging system? Altenator? After the above recommended checks from the members, check your charging system.

 

[DGF]

As the other guys have mentioned check the battery, it is most often the problem. Batteries need to be checked open circuit and with a load applied. If you can measure the current while loaded and the voltage droop you can calculate the battery's source impedance which is a strong indicator of the battery's condition. When there is a lot of voltage droop the battery is usually shot.

Check all of the wires and connections and clean them. These are also common places for problems to hide. It's not uncommon to find that some time in the past someone has worked on an old machine and they may have even replaced the wires or connectors and they are too small or were a little light to beign with. Ideally they should be #4 or better to minimize the losses in the cables. Oversizing is good.

Lastly the motor itself. One of the killers of a starter motor is a failing battery and/or bad cables/connections. When these are weak they create voltage drops which in turn lead to higher than normal current to flow through the motor. Motors are current driven devices but when there is too much the windings can overheat even if you don't notice. When they do the wire degrades and the insulation begins to break down eventually killing the motor. The first sign can be a slow motor and if true its time to change the motor but, this isn't always the case. Sometimes just cleaning the motor's iternals well and lubricating will bring them back to life. A good tip for cleaning the internal electrical connections is to use a pencil eraser. While you have it open you can inspect the brushes and where they glide for wear. It is an old machine so the brushes may be worn but they can often be replaced.

Or, you could just replace the motor. It is a time verses $ thing. If you have the time crack it open to see what you can do but start with the battery, cables and connections. Replacing the motor should be a last resort.

 

[NibbanaFarm]

A solenoid is just a high current switch. Sometimes will click if they start to get sticky but generally work or don't. A coil produces a magnetic field which forces them to bridge contacts to complete the circuit that engages the starter. The old ones, you could take them apart and look at them, clean the contacts and lube them.

 

[metalbender]

A starter draw test on the tractor is needed. Find an old mechanic. He may have an old style, analog tester to hold up against the starter cable while you crank. I still have my testers. One for charging systems, the other for starter draw. Old technology still works. 125-35 amps is good. If the draw is high, the cause may be the starter bushings are worn. Cheap fix if you are mechanically inclined. Newer permanent magnet starters probably draw less, haven't checked.

 

[boatmoter]

My ford 1910 like many old tractors turns over rather slowly when cranking. So I was wondering if I replaced the solenoid if it would make it any faster or does the whole starter need to be replaced? Also if a solenoid would make a difference what size and type would I need? Thanks for any help.

I would take jumper cables and hook one end to the negative on battery post and other end on starter casing,see if it turns over faster,if it does you have a voltage drop on the ground side,repeat the same for the positive side,also,after trying to crank, pat palm of your hand on top of the battery cable terminals at battery,if hot,you have a bad connection on the battery terminal

 

[90cummins]

I’ve worked on my friends 1910 quite a lot they do turn over slower than the newer tractors.
No a solenoid is unlikely to help it is just a switch.
You can remove starter & check brushes & bushings. If bushings are worn the armature can rub on field windings like the old fords autos did & slow cranking speed down.
Rotella T6 5w40 synthetic oil will let it crank over easier/faster I use it in all my diesels & can verify that.
As mentioned check battery condition & cables for resistance using s voltage meter to check voltage drop from battery to starter & battery to ground.
There should be minimal voltage drop. Also check cranking voltage at battery.
90cummins

 

[boatmoter]

My ford 1910 like many old tractors turns over rather slowly when cranking. So I was wondering if I replaced the solenoid if it would make it any faster or does the whole starter need to be replaced? Also if a solenoid would make a difference what size and type would I need? Thanks for any help.

it should turn over fast. it's a shibura Diesel, so it has a gear reduction starter on it. I had a Ford 2120 and it also had the gear reduction starter on it,mine did not turn over good at all,after days of research I see someone had replaced the starter with a used one and it was not the correct starter. I purchased the correct starter from Amazon and it worked great.you could also have dry cylinders causing a drag,starting fluid will dry out cylinders sometimes

 

[boatmoter]

I like this battery load tester a lot better than the modern ones. And while I would agree that cables are a good first place to check, I never make assumptions about what I will find as a problem. Every machine has been through different things. Differing levels of experience and expertise of the guys who have worked on the machines are a major factor in likely problems.

View attachment 847876

great carbon pile load tester,and a Sun.

 

[eKretz]

great carbon pile load tester,and a Sun.

Yup, they made excellent stuff. I always keep my eye out for any at yard sales and such.

 

[boatmoter]

Yup, they made excellent stuff. I always keep my eye out for any at yard sales and such.

I was a auto electrician for 13 yrs, I rebuilt heavy equipment starters and alternators,the shop had one on the sun carbon pile load testers,looked a lot like that one but was on a stand. after rebuilding the alternators used it to load battery on the alternator tester make sure it was right before delivering the unit.they last forever and the carbon piles are replaceable

 

[boatmoter]

THE SOLENOID does not have anything to do with the RPM of the starter motor. It simply engages the starter gear when energized.

If your starter motor, when new, ran (turning the engine over) faster (more RPM), it is far more likely that you need to rebuild the starter motor than replace the solenoid.

While it could reflect an issue in the engine, I suppose. I've never heard of such a thing - seems like an engine would become more limber and easier to turn over as its mechanical parts 'wore themselves in."

no,same as an engine with worn rings,the more wear the less power and more oil consumption,the bushings don't have to be worn so much the armature drags on the pole shoe's,just worn bushing or brushes and a burnt armature windings will cause it.now a bad or weak connection on the field strap from the solenoid to the starter motor will cause it too.it's gear reducted,it should spin over like a hi performance starter on a hi performance engine

 

[Bob Gibson]

The solenoid is just an electrically operated switch, so usually, it either operates or doesn't. However, there could be a problem with the contacts inside the solenoid, so it seems to me that the easiest way to identify if the solenoid is the problem by restricting current flow to the starter motor would be to disconnect the power cable (the large wire from the battery to the solenoid) then have somebody activate the solenoid with the key while measuring the resistance between the two large poles on the solenoid. There should be almost zero resistance or else the contacts may be oxidized, pitted, dirty or interfering with current flow in some way, and in that case, the solenoid would probably need to be replaced. Some solenoids also engage the pinion gear to turn over the engine and those may be opened up to check the contact surfaces, on solenoids that do not engage the pinion, the resistance through the contacts could possibly be checked by simply jumping across the two large terminals on the solenoid and if it spins faster than when using the key, there is a problem with the solenoid, if the speed doesn't change one of the other problems listed in comments above is probably at play! Caution, keep in mind that gasoline or LPG engines will need the key on to run - do not turn the key on for this test, on some diesel engines, the key in the off position may not prevent the engine from starting, so if you test by jumping the terminals, BE SURE TO DISENGAGE THE TRANSMISSION SO THAT IF THE ENGINE STARTS NOBODY GETS RUN OVER!