Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas

/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #1  

cdhd2001

Silver Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
161
Location
texas
I am trying to get my final design together for my tractor shed. Would love to have some ideas, advice, help, etc.

Dimensions:

Pole barn style construction.
16' wide by 24' long. 8-10 ft. height.

4x4 treated posts on 8 ft. centers.
double 2x8 top girts

Roof will be 3:12 pitch with 26 ga. R-panel.

The roof layout is my biggest point of indecision. I am trying to design for 30 psf roof load, no snow (Texas). Should I do trusses or rafters? 24" O.C. with 1/2" OSB decking or XX" O.C. with purlins? I am leaning towards purlins but am unsure what to use for rafter/trusses and what spacing.

Thanks!:)
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #2  
That's a small shed .... how did you plan on finishing it out? For a small shed like that I wouldn't bother with roof decking - set 2x8 rafters with 2x4 purlins and fasten your metal to that. You can buy trusses if you like - save yourself some work then run the purlins on them. If you have a local McCoy's and a trailer you can order the trusses from them and haul 'em yourself.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #3  
CDHD:

I did my workshop with a standing seam steel roof, Kynar coated. A
look at the R-panel website shows me that product is a "batten seam"
or "Ag panel" style. I am considering the building of a carport style
shelter with no sides and I have been looking at a similar roof panel.
The R-panel site indicates these panels are only 8-feet long...is that
right? If your bldg is 16' wide and it is gable style, you will need panels
about 10+' long for a 4:12 pitch. I also do not find any roof peak finish
panel in the details. What's up with that?

Finally, consider that a perlin style of installation will easily dent if you
have to stand on the roof. Continuous roof sheathing is stronger. I
like simple rafters versus trusses in than you have more overhead clearance
inside the structure.

My $.02. Good luck.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas
  • Thread Starter
#4  
dfkrug said:
CDHD:

I did my workshop with a standing seam steel roof, Kynar coated. A
look at the R-panel website shows me that product is a "batten seam"
or "Ag panel" style. I am considering the building of a carport style
shelter with no sides and I have been looking at a similar roof panel.
The R-panel site indicates these panels are only 8-feet long...is that
right? If your bldg is 16' wide and it is gable style, you will need panels
about 10+' long for a 4:12 pitch. I also do not find any roof peak finish
panel in the details. What's up with that?

Finally, consider that a perlin style of installation will easily dent if you
have to stand on the roof. Continuous roof sheathing is stronger. I
like simple rafters versus trusses in than you have more overhead clearance
inside the structure.

My $.02. Good luck.

Our local metal building supplier (DDM Pipe) can make any length of R-panel in house. Same with the flashing and trim. I just finished my back porch and used rafters with 7/16" OSB and R-panel. Turned out great in my opinion.

As for the "simple" rafters. I am going to build the shed with the gable at the 16 ft wide section. I was under the impression that to use rafters in this configuration that I had to include the bottom chord and create a "king" truss?

With purlins, what kind of rafter spacing? 24", 32" 48", 96" ?

I have downloaded many different pole building design plans and some use rafters/trusses 24" O.C. and some go 8-12 ft. spacing on the trusses and run purlins at 24" O.C.?

Questions, questions...:eek:
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #5  
cdhd2001 said:
Our local metal building supplier (DDM Pipe) can make any length of R-panel in house. Same with the flashing and trim. I just finished my back porch and used rafters with 7/16" OSB and R-panel. Turned out great in my opinion.

That is good. You do not want horizontal seams betw panels. I do not
see the ridge cap piece in any of the details. Curious.

cdhd2001 said:
As for the "simple" rafters. I am going to build the shed with the gable at the 16 ft wide section. I was under the impression that to use rafters in this configuration that I had to include the bottom chord and create a "king" truss?
A true "simple rafter" roof has no trusses at all. A ridge beam provides
support for the rafters in the middle. Clearly this would require a good
load path to the foundation, which requires a stronger lintel over the
door. A truss could involve one or multiple ties between the top chords,
depending on the design. These are usually pre-engineered for your load
and span. You should be shooting for a total load of at least 30psf (LL +
DL), even if you get no snow.

cdhd2001 said:
With purlins, what kind of rafter spacing? 24", 32" 48", 96" ?

I have downloaded many different pole building design plans and some use rafters/trusses 24" O.C. and some go 8-12 ft. spacing on the trusses and run purlins at 24" O.C.?

Questions, questions...:eek:

It looks like the R-panel web site gives purlin and rafter (truss) spacing
for the 2 diff guages of steel offered. Purlins not needed if you go with
roof sheathing.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #6  
The difference between a truss and rafter design is the truss will span a distance with the exterior walls supporting the load. Your walls will be 16 feet apart, so your span is 16 feet. You can make the trusses wider to include an overhang, but that 16 foot width is what counts in truss design.

Rafters rely on a load bearing wall in the middle of your span. Sometimes on really wide buildings, you can have multiple load bearing walls. You don't have this in a small shed like yours.

For a short span, the truss is pretty simple. You can order them from a supplier and have them certified for that span, or you can just build your own. Again, for such a short span, it's pretty hard to get it wrong.

Why those dimensions? Is that all the space that you have?

For your purlins, use 16 foot lengths and overlap the seams. Use 4x6's for your entry door posts. I like my trusses to be 4 feet apart with 2x4's on the flat for my purlins. If you go 6 feet on center, then you need to put your purlins on edge. The wider you go, the bigger the lumber that you will need.

How close are you to Muellers? I like them for my metal siding and roofing. Good people with a quality product. Don't buy your metal from the Home Stores. It's thin and the finish isn't very good.

The secret to fastening down a metal roof is to tighten the screws just sung enough to bulge the washers. If you tighten them too much, you will ruin the rubber gasket and it will leak.

If you live in an area with high humidity, you should insulate the ceiling. Otherwise, it will create condensation. This will give you the affect of rain inside the building on certain days. If money is tight, you can avoid this, but don't be suprised to see water on your floor or what's in there on perfectly dry days.

Make the door as big as possible. Mine is 10ft by 10ft, which I consider just about right. It's a roll up door, which I also really like. No wind issues, it's water proof and opens real easy without taking up allot of ceiling space that I can use for my ceiling lights.

Try to pour concrete for the floor as soon as possible. If you put it off, it might never get done. Once you start filling up the building, it gets harder to pour concrete and easier to keep putting it off.

Eddie
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #7  
Not a lot of weight in this one..to keep it reasonable...

2x6 rafters on 24" centers.
1x4 purlin on 16" centers (probably cheaper, easier to put up than ply, you are probably not on the roof that much).
2x6 or 2x8 joist every 3 or 4 feet just to help keep the walls in.

At 3-12 and 16' wide there isn't going to be much storage room in the attic. Maybe some lumber.

Post some pics!!
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #8  
If you go with trusses you could make the building a bit wider. Trusses on 4’ centers and purlins on 2’ centers would most likely be cheaper than decking the roof. Sixteen feet becomes pretty narrow after you start putting things in it or have to get to that equipment in the back corner. A small 2 car garage is 20x20.

MarkV
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #9  
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas
  • Thread Starter
#10  
EddieWalker said:
Why those dimensions? Is that all the space that you have?

Eddie

I am building in between 4 large oak trees. 16 ft wide gives me about 6 ft. clearance on either side between the trees. I was originally going to go 20 ft. long, but decided to go 24 ft so that it is divisible by 8 ft. (post spacing).

I think I have decided to go trusses on 4 ft. centers with 2x4 purlins on 2 ft. centers.

I will build the trusses myself. I have looked in my framing book and decided on the fink (W) truss design. The book shows two choices in framing the trusses. One is to use 2x4's and use double 2x4's for the top chord. The other choice is to use 2x6's for the top chord. Both would use a 2x4 bottom chord.

Any thoughts?


On Edit (to muddy this further :) )

My rafter table on 30 psf and 24" O.C. (No. 2 pine) shows:

2x4 = 7'-10"
2x6 = 9'-9"

So either would work on 16 ft. as rafters...??

So many different ways to skin this cat.... :)
 
Last edited:
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #11  
6 ft. clearance on either side between the trees.
To the trunk or the drip line? If you put a building 6' from the trunk of an oak ... you're just asking it to drop large limbs on your roof. Whenever I look at a tree I picture the same tree under ground (root system) as is above ground. Oaks in Tx all have the same problem - be it live oak or post oak - the limbs rot from the inside out. Cover those roots that are feeding it - and I gotta figure you're going to cause some damage over time.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #12  
I like to use 2x6's on the top chords with 2x4's on all the other parts.

Squeezing it between two oak trees might be ok, but it might also be an issue down the road. I truly hate to take out an old tree, and oaks are my very favorite of all the trees. If it was me, I wouldn't build between two trees.

One problem is that you might very well kill them both with your building. I've had that happen, which really sucks. You go to allot of trouble to try and save the tree, and it dies on you anyway. Now your building is smaller then you wanted it to be, PLUS you have to deal with a dying tree that will fall apart on your building if you don't take it down in such a manner as to save the tree.

Another problem with oaks is they drop branches. Oaks seem to drop really big and HEAVY branches about once a year. I don't know why, but my experience is that it happens fairly regularly. Odds are double with two trees that you will get a branch through your roof.

My last concern about building close to any tree is what the roots will do to the foundation. If you plan on pouring concrete, will it stay in place 20 years from now with two trees right next to the building?

If this is the only place that works for you to build this, then think about taking out the trees. It hurts to do so, but a year from now, you will have trouble remembering that they were even there. If you have too much attachment to the trees, then take out at least one of them.

If one of those trees was removed, could you build wider? 16 feet is just enough to park in with no space for storage on either side. One thing that you will always want and need is more storage. There is nothing more frustrating then to spend thousands of dollars on a building then to realize it was too small before you even finish building it. An extra 4 feet wider won't cost you very much money, probably just a couple hundred dollars in lumber, but give you a tremendous amount of open space. Right now, at 16 ft, you will be crowded. 20 feet will give you some space. Of course, there is no such thing as too wide, but I think 20 feet is about the minimum for a workable shop to be functional. Mine is 24 feet wide and I really like that width. I also have a 12 foot lean too off the side for extra storage, and it's packed full of stuff.

Length is something that you can always add to later on by extending the length of the walls and adding more trusses. If you have the space, go for as deep as you can afford. If it was about not having enough money to do it as big as possible, I would seriously consider waiting and saving another year.

One year will give you time to plan it out to the smallest detail, prepair the area for building, and have enough cash to build it even bigger. If you have the money to build it bigger right now, then consider making it 30 plus feet deep. I know the tractor isn't that long, but when you add a bush hog to the back of your tractor, it's gonna take up allot more room. Taking off the implement just to park it in your shop will get real old, real fast. Figure 20 feet to fit the tractor with bush hog and have enough room to walk around it. Then you want to have storage room, or a workbench, so another ten feet works out pretty good. Mine is 30 feet deep and when I build my next shop, it will be deeper. At 30 feet, I can just do what I want in there, but I have to plan ahead of time what I'll be working on, and I can only do one project at a time. Right now I'm working on an old jeep. That's about all I can do in there, so anything else that comes up is either in the way of each other, or gets done outside.

Eddie

PS to Rob,

Awesome pics and comentary!!! I really enjoyed reading it and seeing how quickly you got it done. Thanks for posting them, I'm feeling motivated to go build something!!!!!!

Eddie
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #13  
Eddie, thought you've seen the whole thing before.. Elkhart House Project

I did build another fence this weekend..to hide some tractor junk. I need to update it.


Regarding the oaks, and other trees, down here the problem roots are just under the ground to 2' down or so. Companies trench down about 2 feet, slip in a blocker of some kind, plastic I've seen, then cover it up. The roots are cut of course. I haven't heard of this killing a lot of trees so I guess they still do it. Under a oak sure makes a nice place to work on something in the summer!!
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas
  • Thread Starter
#14  
RobJ said:
Regarding the oaks, and other trees, down here the problem roots are just under the ground to 2' down or so. Companies trench down about 2 feet, slip in a blocker of some kind, plastic I've seen, then cover it up. The roots are cut of course. I haven't heard of this killing a lot of trees so I guess they still do it. Under a oak sure makes a nice place to work on something in the summer!!

Most cities & regulatory agencies consider a tree's drip line to be calculated from the diameter.

Example:

12" dia. tree has a 12 ft. radius drip line. The Critical Root zone is defined as being 1/2 of the drip line radius, for our example it would be 6 ft. radius. If you cut or fill within the Critical Root zone most arborists and agencies consider the tree dead and you have to do tree mitigation & replacement.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas
  • Thread Starter
#15  
My place is not in regulated area, so no permits or mitigation is required.

However, my placement of the shed is constrained by easements, floodplain, large trees and accessibility. My only other buildable area is going to be our future 24 ft. x 32 ft. garage/ work shop (at the end of the house). The tractor shed is a "test the waters" project before building the garage.

The walls of the shed will be 6 ft. from the tree trunks.

The floor is going to be crushed rock. I just need space for my little tractor and implements.

I understand the issue with close proximity to the trees and limbs dropping. But, for those that cut down every tree that is close to "something", on a small acre lot you will soon not have any trees left.:( The tree thing is a tough call with no real "right" answers.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #18  
Sounds like you've thought it through. With your dimensions, it will be a good sized storage shed that should work out well for you. Especially with the future addition of your real workshop.

I mentioned my workshop, but I didn't mention that I'm going to build a storage building similar in size to what you are buildint this year. It will be an enclosed building 16ft by 18ft and then there will be three ten foot bays for another 30ft of covered storage/parking. Each bay will be 16 feet deep and ten feet wide. The entire building will be 16ft by 48 ft. I'll cover it in Hardi Siding just like Rob did on his garage, except I'm going to stain mine to look like real wood. The roof will be green metal to match my house/shop. Trusses will be on 4ft centers with flat 2x4 purlins every 4ft.

Eddie
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas #19  
EddieWalker said:
The roof will be green metal to match my house/shop. Eddie

My wife wouldn't let me have a green roof. :( Metal would jump up the cost of the house which I kept at $10 a foot. I was getting prices of $80-$100 a square, the trim pieces are very costly!! I would have even settled for a green comp roof. 20 squares only cost me $500 to roof that house in 2001.
 
/ Tractor Shed - Need Framing Ideas
  • Thread Starter
#20  
EddieWalker said:
Sounds like you've thought it through. With your dimensions, it will be a good sized storage shed that should work out well for you. Especially with the future addition of your real workshop.

I mentioned my workshop, but I didn't mention that I'm going to build a storage building similar in size to what you are buildint this year. It will be an enclosed building 16ft by 18ft and then there will be three ten foot bays for another 30ft of covered storage/parking. Each bay will be 16 feet deep and ten feet wide. The entire building will be 16ft by 48 ft. I'll cover it in Hardi Siding just like Rob did on his garage, except I'm going to stain mine to look like real wood. The roof will be green metal to match my house/shop. Trusses will be on 4ft centers with flat 2x4 purlins every 4ft.

Eddie

Cool!

Eddie, you mentioned purlins on 4 ft centers? Every pole barn plan I have seen all say 24" centers for the purlins?


FYI..
My property shape and features (creek/ floodplain) has been really difficult to work around. The only other spot for the tractor shed would in the immediate back yard next to the deck. Wife said "**** no" to that location.;)
 
 
Top