Unsafe generator wiring et al.

[etpm]

I doubt that. You have to remember everything is going to be turning on at nearly the same time.

When the power goes out I don't turn everything on. In fact I try to turn everything off except for what I am powering with my generator. And even then I don't turn everything on that I can. When your power goes out do you turn everything on? If so then why? Most of the time people don't have most everything turned on because it costs money. So I'm pretty sure that the two homes downstream from me could also be powered by my generator at the same time my house is being powered. I only have a 7000 watt generator because it was serendipitously given to me after my 3000 watt generator failed, and even that generator was more than I needed.
Eric

 

[Ken45101]

But mostly, the people that do this stuff lack knowlege.

Oh they may have knowledge, but knowledge without wisdom or good judgement is dangerous.

 

[MossRoad]

When the power goes out I don't turn everything on. In fact I try to turn everything off except for what I am powering with my generator. And even then I don't turn everything on that I can. When your power goes out do you turn everything on? If so then why? Most of the time people don't have most everything turned on because it costs money. So I'm pretty sure that the two homes downstream from me could also be powered by my generator at the same time my house is being powered. I only have a 7000 watt generator because it was serendipitously given to me after my 3000 watt generator failed, and even that generator was more than I needed.
Eric

I'd guess that when there's a power outage, most people get up, look out the window to see if it's just them or the neighborhood, maybe find a flashlight, and try their phone to call someone else to see if their power is out as well. They do NOT go around and turn everything off in their house.

 

[grsthegreat]

i just sit where i am for 30 seconds...generator starts up, auto transfers and im back in business. if im watching tv, i dont even stop watching as the tv and sat/wifi are all battery backed UPS systems. i LOVE my creature comforts.

 

[5030]

I'm not condoning the practice.

Neither am I. In fact, I had a professional electrician hook up my diesel powered 30KW standby genset. I don't do electricity well. Plumbing not so much. With plumbing, if it leaks you get wet. With electricity, if it leaks, you get dead.

Back feeding to the utility pole is a very distinct possibility and I certainly don't want to electrocute a power company employee.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

This was posted by Moss. Simple and no chance of generator breaker on, main on simultaneously.
My experience is most all accidents are doing something different, something you do once every 5 years or so.
We lose power maybe that often, and the generator I have I should sell. I used it once in 10 years and try remembering to start it once a year (carburetor).
Neighbors had a Generac system installed. Concrete pad poured, a 500 gallon propane tank, line trenched to house with automatic switching. I'm sure all that was expensive.
It runs automatically about once a week for about 15 minutes. Total waste of money in my opinion.
Last time we lost power it was for an hour.

 

[MossRoad]

It all boils down to luxury, necessity, affordability, etc., and what someone can justify in their own mind as to what they need VS what they want.

27 years ago we bought our current house in the county that is on a well. I vowed that I'd not make my wife do without a working toilet in a power outage, so I bought a generator before we even moved in.

Since then, I can think of maybe 3 times that I broke it out when a power outage lasted longer than 4 hours, and the pressure tank had been drawn down enough and the pool was frozen so I couldn't grab a bucket of water to flush the toilet. So I fired it up, flushed the toilet, recharged the pressure tank, ran the refrigerator/freezers, the deep freeze, and shut it down again. We have a wood burner for heat if needed.

Same goes for my in-laws. A couple times they've been without power for 3+days, so I'd run it for a couple hours, fill the bathtub with water to flush the toilet, let them take a shower in the other bathroom, recharge their fridge and freezer and shut it off. They have a wood burner as well if needed.

So, the $400 generator sits and waits. Called upon if needed. But in reality, we could do without it if needed. Worse comes to worse, I can tie a shot glass to a string and fish the well.

I cannot justify the money for a standby generator that might not ever get used, when we know we can get by just fine on a little portable.

Kinda funny, even though we have the money to do it, we just have an actual aversion to it. I guess that's the depression-era parenting we received.

Not begrudging anyone that does have one. It sure is nice. But seems kinda like a boat or camper or vacation home that only gets used once or twice a year. I'd rather rent.

 

[grsthegreat]

most of my customers are on wells, with animals. backup generators are not a luxury, there a necessity. livestock can get sick and dye pretty fast with no water. Same with people that have small chicken coups when they lose heat. today its 14F outside, snowing and damn cold windy.

no one will pry my generator from my warm fingers.

City folk dont need them, but i do have some clients that have them due to health reasons.

 

[JasperFrank]

Please don't misconstrue what I'm about to ask........

But lets say, you have a 4400 WATT generator, and for some reason you use a suicide cord and forget to switch off the main. And lets also say that all your neighbors do exactly the same thing during an outage. Wouldn't the non-synchronized generators cancel each other out? They would all be out of phase.

 

[MossRoad]

Please don't misconstrue what I'm about to ask........

But lets say, you have a 4400 WATT generator, and for some reason you use a suicide cord and forget to switch off the main. And lets also say that all your neighbors do exactly the same thing during an outage. Wouldn't the non-synchronized generators cancel each other out? They woulds all be out of phase.

Something like this...

 

[3Ts]

I lived in Florida for a number of years and one of those we had a hurricane come thru and we were without power for 9 days. (Grocery stores and gas stations need power for refrigeration and pumps so none of that was available either.) I'm older now and it would be more difficult to deal with no power for very long. Do we really need a generator? Probably not, we've only been without power a few times for a couple of hours since then. But, I have a whole house generator with a 1000 gallon tank, I'm not going to repeat that experience!

 

[grsthegreat]

also depends on location. Here in the pacific northwest it gets dangerously cold in the winter. Can be very dangerous for older people. not everyone can haul wood into the house to burn. i have many disabled, older people that cant handle the physical chore of moving a portable generator outside and setting it up.

for alot of people, an automatic whole house is not a necessity, for others it is. i never judge what is or isnt a necessity.

ive had potential customers tell me that they thought the cost for auto gen was too high for something they may never use. and when bidding system i see snow mobiles, quads in shop, huge RV's in shop, multiple boats, etc. these probably hardly ever get used either, and need maintenance yearly. so for each person its individual choice for necessity.

 

[DaBear3428]

Please don't misconstrue what I'm about to ask........

But lets say, you have a 4400 WATT generator, and for some reason you use a suicide cord and forget to switch off the main. And lets also say that all your neighbors do exactly the same thing during an outage. Wouldn't the non-synchronized generators cancel each other out? They would all be out of phase.

nicely worded and concise question, but unfortunately the answer is "depends". if there is enough impedance (transformers, wire etc) between them they may self synchronize and all be in phase or they may trip all the breakers. this also depends on the type of generators involved. when it comes to power delivery we have a pretty good handle on what happens under consistent conditions as long as everyone is following code. in the case you called out a lot of different things could happen most of them bad.

 

[LouNY]

And then you get people with my setup which is a 25Kw pto generator, with normally a 75hp tractor running it.

I could possibly backfeed a transformer and power up a utility line.
Do I need 25Kw no I could get by with less. I have thought about getting a smaller tractor to put on the generator
so as to use less fuel. But one tractor has the 540E mode which allows that tractor to throttle down to 1750 rpm with 540 on the pto.

But when my 3/4 hp pump kicks on, nothing even flickers.
We have several outages a year, and it is not unusual for one to be multiple days. Most of our longer outages are in the winter.
So my boiler is running, the water well needs pumping a couple of freezers and refrigerators, we even use the oven and stove top,
and have even been know to do laundry and run the dryer.
When it's on line we don't even think about it everything just works like normal, heat or AC.

 

[FERLING]

All the 'Interlock' does is makes sure your turn off main breaker before turning on generator.

 

[DaBear3428]

All the 'Interlock' does is makes sure your turn off main breaker before turning on generator.

it makes sure you cannot have both on at the same time (interlocked), which is the code issue, but yes you do have to turn one off before the other can be turned on or both off at the same time just not both on at same time.

 

[5030]

I cannot justify the money for a standby generator that might not ever get used, when we know we can get by just fine on a little portable.

I can. My 30 KW diesel fired unit runs the whole farm, barely. Probably should have bought a 40KW unit but I thought 30 was enough.

 

[grsthegreat]

I can. My 30 KW diesel fired unit runs the whole farm, barely. Probably should have bought a 40KW unit but I thought 30 was enough.

Same here. But i have a 22 kw. I want to be able to run whatever i want. Also provides power to protect $4,000 worth of heated horse waters. Dont care how much propane it burns. I like creature comforts.

 

[5030]

Sold off the cattle herd 2 years ago, so no more heated stock tanks and I just sold the Klene cattle barn as well.

 

[Railroadman1]

While I understand your concern, the way it was explained to me by a lineman was this: As long as the linemen are following protocol and doing their job accordingly they should be fine, also if for some reason your generator were to try and charge back the grid the demand on it would be so heavy (picture trying to power a village with a 5k or 8k generator) that it would immediately trip the breaker on the machine.
I'm not condoning the practice.

There have been Lineman Hurt & Killed due to Back Feed,,, a Breaker is a Safety Device that Can & Will Fail