Where are these Tractors built?

R_squared · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

The President and Board Members of company A want to make their stock price rise and yield higher dividends to their shareholders when compared to company B's stock. More people will then invest in company A's stock. One way to accomplish this is to keep manufacturing costs down. Labor costs are a big part of manufacturing costs. Raw materials were once cheap to process in America, but the EPA, OSHA and environmentalists have changed that forever. American companies now heavily rely on both cheap labor and less restrictive raw material processing to increase their profit margin. The American dollar buys more labor and materials in China and India, than here or Canada or in Mexico. The "Big Deal Makers" of Mexico have polluted their country with toxic waste to make a buck. And for what, the same large foreign companies are now pulling out of Mexico to keep their manufacturing costs down. Sound familiar? Is it really the unions fault? Does the consumer really have any say so? The soup has a lot of complex ingredients. America is the greatest country in the world, but it is not a 'cake walk' to make a living in.

CountryBoy · Jul 24, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

there is way to much of a good ole boy system.

I work for a non union company and believe me you can have the good ole boy system with a non union plant.
I call it politics.There is a lot off [censored]kissing and rift raft that gets promoted because of the ole buddy system.
I am not defending the union or am I kicking it either. The company I work for is non union,but they hire maintencace workers from the local union hall ,millwrights/pipefitters/boiler makers/and electricians and these guys are good skilled workers.
I have worked 23 years for this company and seen it all.
I know the threat of union has allowed me to be paid well and have good wages and benefits.
I am middle of the road in regards to a union/I see pro's and cons of a union and I see pros and cons of not having a union.

SPIKER · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

I tend to agree about the unions with you. i've been on both sides many times, I make good money working for non union shop now, I work just as hard there as I did in several union shops. problem is in the union shops there are 2 or 3 times as many people doing the same job, many of whom set around and won't do 1/2 a days work let alone a full days work. last union i was in had 6 maintenance workers, two of us did 80% of the calls on my shift. the others sat around... and as a union shop the company (maker of a pop with a singer as their new spokes girl) paid the union shops LESS than they paid the non-union shops because they already know they can drop the dead weight when it doesn't work out. no one needs to protect my job, becasue I DO IT. now I have been looking around for a different job, applied at several union shops, but wouldn't take the postions because starting pay was too low... I make more in non union shops becasue I WORK for it...

as for the JD thing being made in china.. ya notice that "YANMAR" says made in "SHANGHI" which is not japan it is china... why should I pay nearly 3 times as much for a green tractor when I can buy one made right next door to the same factory using the same materials and runs just as well?

not my fault NAFTA opened our boarders, I earn money the old way, working for it... one day I'll be retired and won't have enough of it so I'll probably still have to work for wal-mart, as by then they may be the only place still open because everything in there is made in china!

welcome to the world market.

Mark /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

F350Lawman · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

as for the JD thing being made in china.. ya notice that "YANMAR" says made in "SHANGHI" which is not japan it is china... why should I pay nearly 3 times as much for a green tractor when I can buy one made right next door to the same factory using the same materials and runs just as well?

My JD 790 says Yanmar, Osaka Japan, the LX-5 cutters says Canada and the gearbox on the cutter and possibly the rims are the only things that say China.

P.S. I paid 14,900 for the 790/FEL/Ind tires and LX-5 cutter with slip clutch when you find that new machine that runs just as good and is around $4,966 as you boasted.... get 2 for me. I could always use another tractor and at that price I'll give one to my neighbor. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Oh, and while you're at it I also want the 0% financing JD offers and please let me know where I can find parts and service for my 2 newest tractors .
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Libertine · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

R_squared:

Raw materials were once cheap to process in America, but the EPA, OSHA and environmentalists have changed that forever. 

Amen.

JEH

Libertine · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

cowboydoc:

 if I own a company why shouldn't I have the right to hire or fire whomever I want to? An employee sure has the right to quit anytime they want to but an employer doesn't have the same right? 

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You're laboring under the delusion you're living in a free country. Although not as bad as some countries (mainly in Western Europe), the "employment at will" doctrine is close to a dead letter. You ought to know better than that, cowboydoc. You don't hire people any more, you marry them with the government, EEOC, legislators, regulators, your neighbors (as voters), lawyers, etc. setting the terms of the marriage.

There are only two ways of ordering a society based on the division of labor. One is by voluntary contract. One is by status. The US is inexhorably moving away from a society of contract and toward a society of status.

If that person was truly a valued member of that company he wouldn't have been fired. If he made that company more than they paid him he also wouldn't have been fired.

You're laboring under the delusion that because you think like a rational businessman, others do to. The vast majority of people are "hired hands" and have that mentality.

JEH

JTC · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

As a managment employee of a company that has factories world wide and relationships with contract manufacturers in China, I'm thankful that we do have the EPA, OSHA and unions (or the threat of unionizing) in the US. I've spent a fair amount of time in Chinese factories and the surrounding country side and can say first hand you would not want to live or work in those conditions. It reminds me of the conditions in this country at the turn of the century; factories billowing smoke, open sewers, polluted rivers, long working hours...

With that said, I'll say that the production quality and their ability is very good and getting better all of the time. China is beginning to enact and enforce environmental laws, and the conditions and quality of life for a Chinese factory worker is much better than subsistance farming in rural China. China is getting better at everything very fast.

Remember how all the cheap junk used to be "Made in Japan"? Does anyone still think this is true? Next all the cheap stuff was "Made in Taiwan (or S. Korea)". Last year we severed our relationship with a Taiwanise contract manufacturer because they became too expensive. Their labor rates now rival that of the US.

India is the next China. Will Burma, Mongolia or Tanzania be the next India? Maybe - All that can be said for certain is that things change and the better one is at adapting to change, the more successful they will be.

Jim

CountryBoy · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

The company I work for has their bean counters and of course the maintenace department is lean and mean,what union workers we have in there are the ones(amount) the company determined they needed,and they are spreading them thin.
The big waste in our company is the hierarchy they have created within themselves,IE special assignments within the organization.They have way too many staff people and ridiculous meetings. I have chosen to stay an operator and not pursue management.I like to go home at the end of my shift and leave that place behind,if you are pursuing a salaried position if helps to have a set of golf clubs and the knack to blow smoke. It is mind boggling to see SOME of the people they promote and to know how they functioned as an operator.
Like I say this is a non union plant except for the boilermakers/millwrights/pipefitters and electricians that comes from the union hall to do the maintenace and they do not allow enough of them to come into the plant to have time to sit around,they do know their trades well and perform them well.
There are about 500 people employed where I work (not counting the union workers)probably about 200 hourly paid shift workers another 50 hourly paid day workers and the rest secretarys/engineers and management.The 200 shift workers (4 shift's) keep the plant running 24/7 all year etc.

GreenMtnMan · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

 You don't hire people any more, you marry them with the government, EEOC, legislators, regulators, your neighbors (as voters), lawyers, etc. setting the terms of the marriage.


This is why I haven't hired anybody to help in my software business. I would rather subcontract out work than deal with all the regulatory issues involved in having employees.

chinatractor2 · Jul 25, 2003

Re: Where is these Tractors built?

"P.S. I paid 14,900 for the 790/FEL/Ind tires and LX-5 cutter with slip clutch when you find that new machine that runs just as good and is around $4,966 as you boasted.... get 2 for me. I could always use another tractor and at that price I'll give one to my neighbor. Oh, and while you're at it I also want the 0% financing JD offers and please let me know where I can find parts and service for my 2 newest tractors"

I was not going to comment in this thread until I read this statement. Yes, I am a tractor dealer that deals in tractors from China. After selling hundreds of these machines with very little problems with them alot of people are still very hard on the chinese tractors. Reminds me of when Datsun was trying to get a foot hold in the market place. JD last year invested a ton of money in a factory in China. I wonder why. The biggest problem i can see is that there is alot of people out there that cant see how a 6,000 28HP 3000 pound tractor can cost so little and still be a good product. Instead of looking further into the product, it is dismissed and then subjected to how bad "it has to be because of the price". One of the reasons JD, NH, and Kub prices are so high, is because there is 5 markups in it before it hits the dealer floor. Now the chinese tractors dont have such a organization like the big 3 and my customers understand that before plunking any money down. If I need parts I call or e-mail my Chinese factory guy and gets me what I dont have on the shelf. My company and 40 other like it stock parts for this brand of tractor and easily available. The machines are also very easy to work on. My customers simply can't or wont pay the high price demanded from the big 3. They understand that they will have to turn the wrench on their machines and thats always not that bad. When a major part does happen to break, they still understand that they saved $10,000, $15000 on there product. The other guys I know including myself enjoy selling tractos and don't even have 1/10th the capital to invest into getting a major tractor line. This factory makes it very easy to get into the buisness. The importing of it is not always easy but we have done 20 - 40' containers over the past 14 months and we have a system that works for us. The engines used in this tractor ARE just as good as anybody elses. China makes more diesel engines that anyone in the world. I know for a fact that JD, NH, and KUB have there share of engine problems but they are caught before the dealer get's the product. The CTOA is such a great organization and makes a chinese tractor purchse that much easier. Here's an example of what i am talking about. I had a GM car a few years ago, and there was a persisant tranny problem. The dealer could not figure it out. They went online and found out that another dealer in Minn. had the same problem and posted the fix. I asked the tech where i can go online and check for this kind of info myself. He said, "you cant. its for dealers only. And if the general public had this info, the service industry at a new car dealership would almost dry up." The CTOA is the service bulliten board for many chinese tractors. I am sorry to go on and on, but I felt someone needed to put some truths out there. It would not suprise me if the internal engine parts came from china to begin with. OK i am ready to take some abuse