Why does everyone rant and rave about the EcoBoost?

[ultrarunner]

Buickanddeere - I agree with you that drive through's at fast food (Fat food ) and banks waste a lot of fuel. But likely here to stay. Thank goodness that US oil purchases have changed. We need to end all importation of oil to the US, and become self supplying for all our fuel needs ! Merry Christmas !

Stop and go rush hour driving in the Bay Area wastes a lot of fuel... hours to travel 30 miles which included two trips across the Bay Bridge...

I think I would buy a motorcycle if I had to commute!

 

[dstig1]

Terry, you need to give it a rest. The E85 bandwagon is pretty much you alone. It makes no sense for anyone who can do math. Stop hijacking threads for your pet issue (or perhaps the issue you are paid to push here).

 

[Green Power]

Terry, you need to give it a rest. The E85 bandwagon is pretty much you alone. It makes no sense for anyone who can do math. Stop hijacking threads for your pet issue (or perhaps the issue you are paid to push here).

Open your eyes, if GM, Ford , Dodge and other manufactures didnt care about E85, they wouldnt offer capable engines. There is a market of people who want E85 capable vehicles, not just 1 person.

 

[Terry1040]

Terry, you need to give it a rest. The E85 bandwagon is pretty much you alone. It makes no sense for anyone who can do math. Stop hijacking threads for your pet issue (or perhaps the issue you are paid to push here).

No, Dave I am NOT being paid to promote anything. I would NOT own a non E85 vehicle. I will drive 50 miles out of my way to fill up with E85. I strongly believe in Ethanol. Sorry that you do not, but be open minded & someday I hope you will move over to the Ethanol camp ! Merry Christmas.

 

[Egon]

ethanol as fuel: engines designed for ethanol use are very efficient. Better than a regular gasoline engine I read.

 

[Diamondpilot]

ethanol as fuel: engines designed for ethanol use are very efficient. Better than a regular gasoline engine I read.

True. But a Flex Fuel vehicle is a compromise. There are motors out there that only run E85. They use about 18 to 1 compression like a diesel and do very well. Problem is E85 is not avaliable enough to make them a viable option and the cost of the fuel is a limiting factor.

Chris

 

[Bota4me]

Personally i HATE ethanol in fuel even at 10%, forget 85!!

 

[wawajake]

Buickanddeere - I agree with you that drive through's at fast food (Fat food ) and banks waste a lot of fuel. But likely here to stay. Thank goodness that US oil purchases have changed. We need to end all importation of oil to the US, and become self supplying for all our fuel needs ! Merry Christmas !

ALL IMPORTS ?? Please be careful with that thought because then you are also cutting off oil from Canada, and last I checked , we were supposed friends of USA (Although Obama has not been a friend calling our oil dirty! , meanwhile his dirty coal plants keep on truckin)

 

[Egon]

True. But a Flex Fuel vehicle is a compromise. There are motors out there that only run E85. They use about 18 to 1 compression like a diesel and do very well. Problem is E85 is not avaliable enough to make them a viable option and the cost of the fuel is a limiting factor.

Chris

Just pointing out that there may be more to eythenol than some of us are aware of. It goes back a long way for usage and engine design. Think "Offy Indianapolis" for an example.

[video]http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/alcoholengines.aspx[/video]

[video]https://www.google.ca/search?q=offy+engine&client=safari&hl=en-ca&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit27CNo7jJAhXH9x4KHTnlASAQ_AUIBygB#imgr c=TAxp9Oguw6oPfM%3A[/video]

 

[Terry1040]

ethanol as fuel: engines designed for ethanol use are very efficient. Better than a regular gasoline engine I read.

Thanks Egon. Seems a lot of people simply do not want to understand the plus 's of Ethanol.

 

[oliver1555]

Thanks Egon. Seems a lot of people simply do not want to understand the plus 's of Ethanol.

I don't think it's that I'm not aware of the pluses of ethanol in some applications. E85 won't work in anything I own and I don't want it forced on me by the stuffed shirts in D.C.

 

[Egon]

Thanks Egon. Seems a lot of people simply do not want to understand the plus 's of Ethanol.

:thumbsup:

Just trying to bring the history to some folks who may not be aware of the precedents.

There are also numerous ways to get alcohol other than corn.

 

[KennyG]

Seems back when a lot of races were won with an alcohol fuelled engine.

[video]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenhauser[/video]

There is a lot of apples and oranges discussion going on here with resultant confusion. Having studied internal combustion engine design in engineering school almost 50 years ago (although I never worked in that particular area) I can tell you not much has changed in the basic theory. What has changed is material strength, manufacturing capability, electronic control, etc.

Low energy fuels like ethanol put out less heat and pressure per gallon. However, they have greater resistance to detonation which allows a higher compression ratio which increases thermal efficiency. Note that the Offenhauser engine referenced ran a 15:1 compression ratio back in the 30's. That engine could not have operated on gasoline. Similarly, some supercharged aircraft engines (supercharger necessary due to high altitudes) ran on alcohol. Note that engine had an integral head and block (the head was cast with block and was not removable) because of the high pressures. If not, the components would have been as heavy as a diesel engine.

Many people do not realized that "premium" gasoline actually has less energy per gallon than "regular". It would get poorer gas mileage except for the higher compression ratio it enables. In the past, engine control technology prevented a regular gas engine to from taking advantage of the premium fuel. Modern engines (especially turbo engines) have controls to get extra power from premium fuel while still operating on regular.

Alcohol mixtures present an even greater challenge for engine controls. Without being an expert, I'm skeptical whether a normally aspirated engine could have the range of controls to optimize use of E85 and still use E10. With a turbo engine it should be easier, but performance with E10 might be limited.

Ethanol makes sense in countries like Brazil where sugar cane grows very cheaply and the cars can be optimized to run on almost pure ethanol. In the US where we are focused on corn based ethanol (which is inherently more expensive than cane based ethanol) and most people will want flex fuel capability, I don't see how it makes sense.

 

[rd_macgregor]

Even switching to ethanol (straight or mixed into gasoline), would still require import controls. Sugar cane ethanol is dramatically cheaper to produce than is corn ethanol. This is the reason that US government subsidies for ethanol have targeted domestic corn (or sugar beet) ethanol....otherwise, Brazilian cane sugar ethanol plants would have just sucked up all the money.

 

[Copperhead]

I don't think it's that I'm not aware of the pluses of ethanol in some applications. E85 won't work in anything I own and I don't want it forced on me by the stuffed shirts in D.C.

That would be news to me. I have not ever heard of E85 even being proposed as a mandate for anyone. Not sure then why that would be an issue here. But if you know of a E85 mandate that is being proposed, please, don't hold out, provide a link.

 

[Egon]

Informative comments KennyG. Thanks.

Kinda curious what an Offy six cylinder with short stroke would have done.

 

[Garandman]

17 of your 19 posts are pushing E85. What the **** is your goal here???

You noticed that too? "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

The 3.5L EcoBoost in our Transit runs fine on regular. Possibly if we were towing a lot, uphill, in summer, I might use mid-range or premium.

 

[MossRoad]

... The MOST important reason that I own a 5.0 engine is to burn AMERICAN made E85....

... It burns cleaner & is better for the enviorment.

American Made.... by ADM...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Daniels_Midland

Antitrust Law Violations.
Price fixing.
Violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Outstanding environmental record... :laughing:
And last but not least...
[h=3]Agricultural subsidies[/h] The company lobbies for agricultural subsidies and price supports including sugar and ethanol. According to a 1995 report by the libertarian think tank Cato Institute, "ADM has cost the American economy billions of dollars since 1980 and has indirectly cost Americans tens of billions of dollars in higher prices and higher taxes over that same period. At least 43 percent of ADM's annual profits are from products heavily subsidized or protected by the American government. Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM's corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its bioethanol operation costs taxpayers $30."[SUP][28][/SUP]

 

[jmc]

American Made.... by ADM...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Daniels_Midland

Antitrust Law Violations.
Price fixing.
Violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
Outstanding environmental record... :laughing:
And last but not least...
[h=3]Agricultural subsidies[/h] The company lobbies for agricultural subsidies and price supports including sugar and ethanol. According to a 1995 report by the libertarian think tank Cato Institute, "ADM has cost the American economy billions of dollars since 1980 and has indirectly cost Americans tens of billions of dollars in higher prices and higher taxes over that same period. At least 43 percent of ADM's annual profits are from products heavily subsidized or protected by the American government. Moreover, every $1 of profits earned by ADM's corn sweetener operation costs consumers $10, and every $1 of profits earned by its bioethanol operation costs taxpayers $30."[SUP][28][/SUP]

Interesting. Heard a related discussion today to the effect that, if you want to let the "Free Market" settle things, you'd first better look at all the fingers in that "Free Market".

 

[ColoradoBound]

How does all this talk about E85 have anything to do with the Ecoboost?