Why is green paint so expensive?

[Farmwithjunk]

Actually, AMF SAVED HD.... If AMF hadn't bought out HD, HD would have gone the way of Indian, Excellcier etc.
AMF also introduced many enhansements to the Shovelhead engine, the cone/alternator bottom end to name a major upgrade. The Kehin carb was another.
I also posted that my HD was an AMF as it is incorrectly labeled as a cheaper model but all the while it bought well over a 200% appreciation when sold over the original purchase price! The new model HD's produced by the now engineer owned (former & current) are considered much more valuable.
You see, even the so called lesser valued HD's appreciated in value more than it's competition
Also, the rear chain oiler was one of the major reasons an HD marked it's spot
I've yet to see a Honda, Kawasaki etc hold their value anywhere near ANY model of the large HD's (Sportsters excluded).

I've also owned and operated several Honda's (450 & a 750) and I don't want to knock Honda as I enjoyed them. They were very good machines. But, since they didn't hold their value, they can't be considered better than my ole AMF HD

Sales are just one of the 3 major determinators of what is a great product. Service, Quality and Price constitutes the mythical triangle of what we as consumers look for in a product. Then theres several sub categories under each to define them. To me resale value helps to define price. We all have differing opinions on which of the 3 is the most important. Most place price as 1st while I do not.
The three brand examples I used may not be the best in everybodies opinion but they are in mine as they meet my criteria of the 3 determinators. Other manufacturers may excell in one area but not all 3 to me.
And of course others pick another brand as they feel it wins in their triangle. And thats fine with me....


Sales numbers are just one barometer, what other numbers are you saying? Resale value numbers? HD wins.
Most popular numbers? again HD wins. Numbers of owners of over1k cc MC's? HD!

I don't have to put down Chevy or Dodge to justify my F150, nor JD or CNH to justify my Kubota nor Honda or Kawasaki to justify my purchase of an HD as I've owned the others and liked them.
When others do I like to make sure all sides are covered in a debate

AMF SAVED HD? There's a good'n! They hung on to a name until they squeezed every last drop of blood out of an already dying brand. HD was slipping in worth, but began a free-fall once AMF shot the OTHER foot. When Willie G. Davidson and his finacial backing bought the name back, it was nearly worthless. MARKETING an "image" brought them back from what AMF left for dead. Taking it public not only generated a TON of cash, but it was also a great MARKETING tool, demonstrating the "All American brand" thing as a bonus. They cashed in before the name was extinct. Then they sold that "image" even before they upgraded bikes. Good BUSINESS plan. (Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the product on the sales floor at the time)

RESALE.... That's what I always hear from everyone who just paid too much for something in the first place. High resale value seems to goes hand in hand with over-priced new retail.

As far as most popular? Harley leads in sales of ONE type of motorcycle. Honda flat rips everyone to shreds when you talk ALL motorcycles. Look at market share and you'll see EVERYONE chasing Honda. (See who's name keeps popping up in #1) So, sales #'s are it huh? Must mean Honda is automatically the "best".

Did I mention I OWN a Harley? (Heritage Springer) I paid way too much. It's worth more than I paid. It's got 9200(+)miles. Heads have been off 2 times. Bent pushrod/broken rocker. Crank seals twice. Lights have been a nightmare. Lots of bad design faults. It's ill handling in NORMAL traffic. Wife likes it. I'm stranded.

It's most definately NOT the best bike in the world.

 

[gemini5362]

I used to own a british racing green mazda miata but that is probably another post. I do however ride motorcycles and have been for a while. My youngest son wanted to buy a retired police BMW ( I believe it is a 1100 ) I did some research on that bike for him. According to the few web sites I researched the BMW police bike has been one of the safer bikes that police departments have used. Evidently it has a true ABS system that works and that has apparently decreased the number of accidents the officers on patrol in those departments have had. According to the police web sites I visited several communities switched from useing a Harley Davidson motorcycle for their mounted patrol and went to the BMW. The web sites I visited said although the BMW motorcycles were more money and a higher investment. Over time the departments had saved money because the BMW motorcycles were less failure prone and had a decreased number of accidents. Now having said that I dont own a BMW because I dont like the opposing cylinders. I dont own a harley because I just dont like them personally. I drive an older kawasaki 1000 shaft drive I got it for a reasonable price and it goes faster than I need to go. I do not know that it is a better motorcycle than any other bike I just happen to like it.

 

[gemini5362]

(sorry Chevy lovers but I have a slight Bias in favor of Ford and Dodge for the cab and chassis. The Duramax is a fine engine and I hold it above the power joke but not up there with the Cummins)


Pat

It is interesting to note that when I bought my 2005 chevrolet hd with the duramax I almost bought a Ford for the simple reason that I loved the Ford Mirrors on the truck and hated the overgrown car mirrors that chevrolet had on theirs. In 2006 chevrolet came out with the 6 speed allison which has better fuel mileage and Decent mirrors ( very similar to the ones I liked in Ford trucks) So I traded my 2005 in for a 2006. The other day I was at the Chevrolet dealers asking how to do something with my truck and the salesman told me that in 2007 chevrolet had went to a Box beam chassis instead of the C beam. It gave the chevrolet a better ride because their was less chassis flex.) They do not have the new 2007 2500 hd trucks with the box chasis frame out yet but it really dont matter. I do not think going up to my wife and saying " Dear I know I bought a new truck in 2005, and I know that in 2006 I wanted the more powerful engine and the 6 speed transmission and cool new mirrors. So I bought a 2006 2500HD Now in 2007 they have a better chasis that will ride more comfortably and I want one of those." My wife is a sweet loving woman but I think that might be pushing my luck just a bit too far.

 

[patrick_g]

gemini, If your wife drives or rides in the truck very much and you put it in terms of her comfort you might stand a chance. Meanwhile air the tires to the max pressure on the sidewalls and keep the truck as light as possible and get her in the truck as much as possible whenever you can construe a reason to take a bumpy road. Keep this up for a wyuhile and then make the pitch for the smoother ride etc. NO guarantee but it should boost your chances.

I put custom variable rate eliptical cross section front coils on my Dodge 1 ton to soften the road ride. The springs still get stiff quick when you depress them an inch or so but for light little bumpos on the highway it is real soft. Then to make sure that didn't work I put on HD custom rear springs, custom overloads, and air bags. You need to load the thing to about the max and then you get a real smooth and comfortable ride not a soft swaying under damped ride but a real nice soft comfortable and controlled ride. Of course the dual gas charge Bilsteins up front don't hurt. The OEM shocks were garbage that didn't last 10K miles and neither did the OEM tires which I replaced with 19.5 inch Michelins on Alcoas.

I typically don't load it that much but drag a trailer ionstead so the ride is a tad harsh much of the time. This is a '97 Dodge 1 ton and they had boxed in frame already.

Pat

 

[NDAWIND]

AMF SAVED HD? There's a good'n! They hung on to a name until they squeezed every last drop of blood out of an already dying brand. HD was slipping in worth, but began a free-fall once AMF shot the OTHER foot. When Willie G. Davidson and his finacial backing bought the name back, it was nearly worthless. MARKETING an "image" brought them back from what AMF left for dead. Taking it public not only generated a TON of cash, but it was also a great MARKETING tool, demonstrating the "All American brand" thing as a bonus. They cashed in before the name was extinct. Then they sold that "image" even before they upgraded bikes. Good BUSINESS plan. (Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the product on the sales floor at the time)

RESALE.... That's what I always hear from everyone who just paid too much for something in the first place. High resale value seems to goes hand in hand with over-priced new retail.

As far as most popular? Harley leads in sales of ONE type of motorcycle. Honda flat rips everyone to shreds when you talk ALL motorcycles. Look at market share and you'll see EVERYONE chasing Honda. (See who's name keeps popping up in #1) So, sales #'s are it huh? Must mean Honda is automatically the "best".

Did I mention I OWN a Harley? (Heritage Springer) I paid way too much. It's worth more than I paid. It's got 9200(+)miles. Heads have been off 2 times. Bent pushrod/broken rocker. Crank seals twice. Lights have been a nightmare. Lots of bad design faults. It's ill handling in NORMAL traffic. Wife likes it. I'm stranded.

It's most definately NOT the best bike in the world.

AMF did save HD. Who do you think invested in the design and research for the EVO motor that saved the product line? It wasnt Willie G. It was AMF. They werent around long enough to see the turn around but they got the ship moving.

Vaughn Beals, the CEO of the company when is was bought from AMF, CAME from AMF. But I guess he just got much smarter as an executive with HD than he was with AMF.

Ive owened three HDs and made money on all of them. So if I overpaid, so what I got my money back and then some. Owned a couple of Yamahas and lost my shirt. Even the dealer wouldnt take it back on a trade.

Darrin

 

[paco]

Are harleys the investment they once were? I have owned two. Never lost money but I would be afraid to buy a new one today and expect to get my money back. If I do buy again, it will be a harley.

 

[NDAWIND]

Are harleys the investment they once were? I have owned two. Never lost money but I would be afraid to buy a new one today and expect to get my money back. If I do buy again, it will be a harley.

No I definately would'nt say investment. Production has come way up over the years and demand has been met. Used to be lists at dealers to get a new bike, not anymore. I haven't tried to sell or trade the 03 yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it is the first one I don't get all my money back on. But hey, I was around the years when you got MORE money for a used bike than a new one, because people didnt have to wait for it to come in like the the ones on the dealer's list so I made my share along the way. Last was a 99 FLSTF that I rode for a year and sold for 500 more than I paid! Wish I still had that one, loved the shaking EVO.

Darrin

 

[Volfandt]

As far as most popular? Harley leads in sales of ONE type of motorcycle.

Thats basically what I've been say'n

They cashed in before the name was extinct. Then they sold that "image" even before they upgraded bikes. Good BUSINESS plan. (Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the product on the sales floor at the time)

It takes more than just a good business plan to remain in business. If the product is bad it will definitely effect sales and ultimately the survivability of the company. If all you have is a bad product, you will not last and no amount of marketing can overcome that. See the rise and fall of the Yugo and countless other manufacturers that are no longer doing business in the American marketplace as proof.
Conversely, you can have the best product in the world and it won't do a thing for you if you can't market it and/or you don't have a good business plan. They are all related.
JD wouldn't be around today if their products weren't good.
Course JD is into insurance as well as manufacturing L&G and farm equipment.
Hate to hear about your HD's troubles. Other than having to do a top end (new 10 over piston's, rings and reground valve's & seat's) my ole AMF shovelhead got me from point A to point B reliably for 18 yrs. It was my primary transportation for 3 yrs. Wished I never sold it now but it got to dangerous to take it out around my parts, seems folks just refuse to see an MC, even one as big and loud as an HD. I probably could have gotten more out of it had I not been swayed by the stack of $100 bills

On & btw, I had more troubles keeping the multiple Mikuni carbs clean & adjusted properly on both my 450 & 750 than I ever did on my FXE....

 

[gemini5362]

patrick g good idea but not much of a chance that happening. She would see through that idea in a microsecond. She bought a new ACCURA TL two months ago so that we would have something more comfortable to drive on trips. I expect she would point that out if I said something about needing a new truck to be more comfortable. I think I will just stay with my old 2006 with the antiquated chasis and drive it for a few hundred thousand more miles.

 

[bamatoolmaker]

I thought this was a tractor forum not cars,bikes or even transmissions.Why is green paint so expensive?How many imported parts or assemblys are used?Do they use the same,more or less imported parts than the other american manufacturers if the prices are higher than the others and parts and maufacturing costs are the same.The answer is green requires a higher profit margin to satisfy their stockholders.Personally I have dealt with some of their vendors as a subcontractor and would never buy one only because of the way they treat people.I know for a fact green equipment is first class but its just not for me.I am not trying to offend anyone here.I just do not require a status symbol to do farm work.