Grapple Grappling for answers on Grapples

[Samandothers]

I am working to clear some land. Some of the land was meadows 20 to 30 years ago. Currently I have been cutting trees and/or digging out with loader and backhoe. I then use the front end loader to push or pick up what I can to move the brush. I have also been using the bucket to slide rocks around until I can flip them in or get the bucket under them. I have a Kubota L4240 with LA854 loader and Quick Attach bucket. I will need to add the front remote for grapple control.

I have been thinking of getting a grapple, but there appears to be several different types. Root rake grapple, open bottom grapple, bucket grapples, fork grapples, single or dual control grapple just to name a few variations I have seen. So what is the best choice for what I describe?

My thoughts have been the Root rake grapple or open bottom grapple as they appear they could 'approach' load better to grab with the grapple and also allow you to see the load.

I have not priced these yet so I thought I would determine what may be best then go to pricing. I can always ask Santa!

Thanks for your help!

 

[skipro3]

I put a grapple on the top of my bucket FEL and just leave it there. Remember if you get something specialized like you are contemplating that you will have to take the time to attach and detach every time you want to do a different task. For me, that's a ride back to the barn. I am able to lift anything I want with my bucket/grapple combo; I just lower the bucket straight down with the grapple open wide, close the grapple, then roll the bucket back over while lowering the FEL at the same time. It's like a big T-Rex just bent down to swallow a meal and rolls back up to gulp it down. I've tried to scoop up the rock and close the grapple, but it doesn't work nearly as well, especially on the large rocks.

 

[maps]

Samandothers,

Understand what you are faced with. I'm up the road an hour from you (Forest City) doing much the same. Although I have not used a bucket add-on grapple, I can say I absolutely love my WR Long root rake grapple. I knew when I was shoping for the tractor I would be moving mountains of brush, ivy, black berry, stumps... so I went ahead and had the WR Long financed in with the tractor, loader, cutter, and box blade. While it does take time to change from bucket to grapple, especially since I do not have Quick Attach, I never cease to be amazed at how much junk I can pick up by coming down on a pile of brush and crunching it down a couple of times. Having the right tool for the job is a pleasure.

If I weren't currently in Iraq, I'd invite you up to play in some brush piles. If you are still in the looking/investigating stage in January, send me a PM and I'd be happy to let you get some first-hand experience.

Good luck and happy hunting,

 

[Happyman]

Samandothers...I too have been looking at root grapples for my L3940. I have the QA so the time to switch from grapple to bucket is minimal.
Markham Welding (oops, should I not mention their name ) have built a great root grapple for sub-compact tractors like ours. They do mostly skid steer attachments but have developed a nice grapple for tractors. Visit their website Markham Welding - Home and then call to speak with Melissa. Their prices are incredible, about $850-$950 delivered, and she can make it a custom fit for you.
WR Long also makes a great grapple: RBG. That's the brand my dealer carries and recommends. It's a bit more expensive, I think about $1,200-$1,500, but if I have a problem the dealer will cover me. Anyway, add to that about $1,200 if you put the Kubota brand valve on your tractor and you can see they are not cheap. I haven't decided which way to go yet but will make that decision in the spring when I start clearing about 6 acres for our Christmas tree farm .
Hope this helps.

 

[firefighter9208]

I am working to clear some land. Some of the land was meadows 20 to 30 years ago. Currently I have been cutting trees and/or digging out with loader and backhoe. I then use the front end loader to push or pick up what I can to move the brush. I have also been using the bucket to slide rocks around until I can flip them in or get the bucket under them. I have a Kubota L4240 with LA854 loader and Quick Attach bucket. I will need to add the front remote for grapple control.

I have been thinking of getting a grapple, but there appears to be several different types. Root rake grapple, open bottom grapple, bucket grapples, fork grapples, single or dual control grapple just to name a few variations I have seen. So what is the best choice for what I describe?

My thoughts have been the Root rake grapple or open bottom grapple as they appear they could 'approach' load better to grab with the grapple and also allow you to see the load.

I have not priced these yet so I thought I would determine what may be best then go to pricing. I can always ask Santa!

Thanks for your help!

Samandothers,

Do you have a rear remote. If so your in business. I purchased an add on grapple from Andy Tatro. www.tatrosite.com . Rob (3RRL) has two mounted on his loader bucket. I mounted the Tatro grapple (about $400.00 shipped to my door) on my bucket and ran long hoses ($275.00) to the rear remote on my Kubota M4800 (48 hp).

I went with the 5000 psi hoses with quick connects at the rear and also put quick connects at the front so I could take the grapple off the bucket. It literally takes 2 minutes to take the grapple on and off.

I also purchased an extra mount from Andy and welded it to the top of my pallet forks. Now when moving long items, like power poles, I can clamp down and keep the item from sliding off the forks.

Sure I would love to have a dedicated grapple, but for the price difference the add-on-grapple has more than met my needs.

At the same time that I ordered my grapple from Andy my neighbor Jim also ordered one. He has used his a lot more than me and is very pleased with it. He has his mounted on an L5030 Kubota with cab.

Here's a link to the post where I documented my installation: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/109463-andy-tatro-grapple-installation.html

 

[pitt_md]

I have the WR Long, OBG2-54" grapple for my MX5000. This is a nice sized unit and I do not believe that my tractor/FEL could ever inflict and damage to it. Markham was not making their new version of grapples at the time I bought mine from WRLong. I have not seen a Markham in person but for the price difference I would recomed a close look...
I see that there are quite a few add-on type of grapples being used by members of this forum. for what I use mine for they would not do the job.

 

[jake98]

Sam, Others, I'd check out Unlimited Fabrication at Rootgrapple.com they have a new model with a wide grapple for compacts, and they haven't started any fights yet here on TBN. They're in Denton.

 

[IslandTractor]

Also check out Markham Welding. They have by far the best deal right now on open bottom (traditional) grapples. I think you can still get a 48" version shipped for less than a grand. It is a steal at that price. 48" is good up to about a 50hp CUT for general utility work too so no real reason to get a bigger, heavier more expensive one. I use a similar 48" grapple on my 40hp machine with a loader that is at least as strong as the LA854 and have only good things to say about the performance.

 

[Samandothers]

Great input thanks to all! Lots of different possibilities which is good! Now I need to read through these and visit some sites.

Skipro and Firefighter I had thought about add on but wondered about the strength or torque on the bucket. I think it was Pitt Md may have add similar concerns with some of his loads. Have you noticed any issues with bucket flexing or concern with strength. I also was wondering about your ability to pick up logs/poles or get close enought to brush to pick up since the bucket sides might be in way. Any issues there.

Firefighter I do not have any rear remotes so there will be new plumbing involved.

Maps, thanks for your service in Iraq, safe return! Did you look at other designs besides the root rake design? It was one of the two types I think I might like. The other was the design like Pitt Md has which appears to have the open bottom type design.

Pitt Md why did you select the open bottom design vs the root rake design?

Happyman I think you may have mentioned you were looking at the Long Root rake. Why that design over the open bottom design? Trying to get some feel for what one may have as advantage over the other.

Jake 98 I will check out the Denton connection. That is not far from where my son is in school. I could save shipping!

Island tractor I thank you for the size input. I was not sure what was the proper size for my 42 Hp tractor. I had seen someone post in another thread the smaller width versus one near as wide as a bucket (72") allows more presure on the roots for digging.


Keep the input coming I do appreciate it.

By the way I had not idea about cost of the item so I called a dealer listed on WR Longs site for a ball park intial price. It was about $700 for the hydraulics needed to prep the tractor and then for the 72" root rake with two top gapples was $2700 and the open bottom design in 72" was $2000. A bit more than I was wanting to spend even though it could be the wifes Christmas gift!

With these other sites to visit

 

[skipro3]

I reinforced my bucket with an angle iron bar when I mounted my grapple. I've picked up rocks off a ledge that weighed much more than my lift could elevate, and tweaked the top of my bucket just slightly. Pushed it into a telephone pole and it's back straight again.

to pick up brush, I lift the bucket high, tip it straight down, open the grapple and smash the brush stack to the ground. Then I close the grapple and roll the bucket back up. Works great.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Just my 2 cents worth here, but I have a little bit bigger tractor than most here at TBN and I use the Skid Steer loader Root Grapple Heavy Duty. Have had no problems with it. Very reasonably priced and will take a beating. In the 1st pic, I am sifting through the dirt with the front edge of the grapple about 6-8 inches in the ground, and as you can see, I also use it for moving bushes like a lot of others do also. Check them out before you buy.

Good luck with what ever you get.

 

[maps]

Samandothers,

I appreciate your encouragement. The story about how I settled on the WR Long I did is short and simple: I worked with Ken Wilson of Wilson Equipment in Spartanburg setting up my tractor purchase...described to him what I wanted to be able to do...he showed me a couple of suggestions and I thought this one would reach into my overgrown treelines and take a big bite of junk. Since I'm situated on good 'ol North Carolina red clay, I didn't expect to be doing a whole lot of sifting so the closer spacing on the bottom of the grapple wasn't much of a concern. If I do get more soil in a load than I intended, I just drop the load a couple of times and go about my business.

Now, with a little more experience under my belt and the more time I spend on TBN, I realize half the fun of finding just the right attachment is the hunt! Kinda' feel like a kid in a candy store. Again, happy hunting.

 

[firefighter9208]

Samandothers,

I have had no issues with the strength of the top of the bucket. If you look at my link of where I added the grapple I reinforced the top of the bucket with 1/2" x 4" flat plate between the loader mounts. I then welded the grapple mount on top of that.

I added a tooth bar to the front of my bucket which makes it a lot easier to pick up poles etc.... I have had no issues with picking up brush. I just push the brush into a pile, pick up the bucket and roll it forward and the "clamshell" the pile. I can pick up a pile big enough I can't see to drive. I have also picked up logs big enough to make the tractor "tippy" even with a 55 gallon drum of concrete on the back and loaded tires.

Chris

 

[IslandTractor]

By the way I had not idea about cost of the item so I called a dealer listed on WR Longs site for a ball park intial price. It was about $700 for the hydraulics needed to prep the tractor and then for the 72" root rake with two top gapples was $2700 and the open bottom design in 72" was $2000. A bit more than I was wanting to spend even though it could be the wifes Christmas gift!

That is why I pointed you to Markham. The other manufacturers of what are sometimes called "light duty" grapples like Long and Millonzi (RIP) make (made) similar open bottom grapples in the 48 inch size that work very well with CUTs. The open bottom grapples are apparently much easier to manufacture so are always less money than the clam shell type (you are calling them root rakes but that term is used for both styles). The clamshells are also almost always heavier (not a good thing generally) for a given size.

One general bit of advice: be careful not to confuse grapples intended for commercial use on big skidsteers with what would work best on a CUT. Even your 42hp tractor with 852kg lift at mid bucket is light duty compared to what the skidsteer grapples are designed to handle. Again, my 41hp Kioti DK40se has over 2700lbs lift at PP and the Millonzi 48 inch "light duty" grapple has no complaints. I lift the rear of the tractor with ballast off the ground routinely trying to pry out stumps and the grapple shrugs it off.

 

[pitt_md]

Great input thanks to all! Lots of different possibilities which is good! Now I need to read through these and visit some sites.


Pitt Md why did you select the open bottom design vs the root rake design?

By the way I had not idea about cost of the item so I called a dealer listed on WR Longs site for a ball park intial price. It was about $700 for the hydraulics needed to prep the tractor and then for the 72" root rake with two top gapples was $2700 and the open bottom design in 72" was $2000. A bit more than I was wanting to spend even though it could be the wifes Christmas gift!

With these other sites to visit

I chose the OBG design because I have large chunks of concret and big rocks to move as well as trees and brush. Clamshell designs rely on the clamping force to lift material as they can not get under an object. Part of why I chose that design was talking to Mr Long (Vance) from WR Long and telling him what I have to do. He advised the OBG type. Each design has it's pros and cons.

I would not recomend a 72" grapple for your tractor. Island tractor has pointed out the advantages of going smaller so I will not restate what he said.

One more thing...
if you intend to do any type of ag work i would recomend installing rear hydraulics. Very nice to have the ability to operate equipment on the back.

 

[IslandTractor]

One more thing...
if you intend to do any type of ag work i would recomend installing rear hydraulics. Very nice to have the ability to operate equipment on the back.

I agree. I have used both rear hydraulics and a joystick mounted diverter. Both work well (I actually prefer the rear hydraulics by a hair so long as the control lever is easily reached by dropping your hand off the joystick). The rear hydraulic set up gives you the ability to easily add a hydraulic topping lift (great for box blading) and other hydraulically powered tools in the future. The diverter costs more and is a one trick pony.

 

[farmboy12]

We use a Versatech root rake grapple on the front of our M4900. A bit bigger that yours in outer size. It works great for what we use it for, turning lage brush pile and large compost pile, carrying downed trees and such.

On thing though. Our hydraulics are a beast to hook up on our '05 M4900. Don't know if it is different on L's. With the QA up front, you'd expect things to be quick and easy. Not so with the Hydraulics.

Also, we got ours from Mcgrew Equipment in PA. Any experienced ebayer would know about the. We also got the Case 450 from them, which we have sold now.

 

[Samandothers]

Mtn. View Ranch the line to Unlimited Fabrication in Denton NC is appreciated. Good to have additional options.
I also visited Markham痴 site mentioned by Island Tractor and Happyman. Ironically they are also in Denton NC. I have requested a price from them.
As mentioned I visited WR Long's site that Maps and others mentioned. I have not called their place in Tarboro NC. I have requested a price for the Long open bottom grapple and the Kubota 3rd function valve kit via the dealer where I bought my tractor. According to dealer the Kubota valve kit could run a hydraulic motor if I ever had the need. The Long site indicates their diverter is not sized to run a hydraulic motor. Not sure yet I'll use this type of hydraulic control.

Firefighter I enjoyed viewing your install thread for the add on grapple, great job! I gotta learn to weld

Farmboy I did search for Versatech and found it on Ebay. I was beginning to wonder if all grapples were made here in NC! The price is a little over what is posted by Unlimited Fab. which I could pick up and save shipping.
Island Tractor and Pitt Md I appreciate the input on the rear hydraulics as the mechanism to control the grapple and other uses. This is something else to consider. I will also have to investigate how the rear remote controls could be installed on my tractor to allow the grapple control to be near the loader control. I understand the input on size of grapple. For the open bottom, versus clam shell grapple Unlimited Fab. only has a 63" width as smallest they offer, not sure of weight. Markham痴 smallest is 60 and 770lbs. WR Long痴 48 is 350 lbs, the 56 460 lbs., 64 490 lbs.
All
Thanks for the continued feedback and input it does help me to form opinions and narrow search. Based on your input and discussion I am leaning toward the grapple with the open bottom versus the clam shell or add on grapple. Not sure yet on size or brand, that could be driven by price. Nor have I determined the best approach to plumb the hydraulics.

 

[daveinnh]

I have a WR Long RBG2-60 grapple for use on a Kubota L4310. Not a lot of use, but it's very handy for moving small boulders ~ limit 1,200 lb. Brush gathering is good, log loading - less so.

I expected the holding power to be greater, but the upper arm doesn't have a lot of holding power - could be redesigned, IMO. I also looked at an ANBO, but couldn't justify the price extra.

 

[IslandTractor]

Our hydraulics are a beast to hook up on our '05 M4900. Don't know if it is different on L's. With the QA up front, you'd expect things to be quick and easy. Not so with the Hydraulics..

Are you having trouble releasing pressure before hooking up the quick connects? I cannot understand how it could be difficult to hook up the hydraulics otherwise.

There are some special QC fittings made that permit automatic release of residual pressure, I think Pionner sells some like that. I just make sure that I release pressure in the system before I try to hook up hydraulics on the FEL and if there is still resistance I just "gently" whack the spring loaded tips to release the pressure.