Brush mowing steep slopes

[KentT]

Just bought an overgrown 15 acre farm that has some steep hillsides -- at least 30 degrees, maybe more -- to mow and clear up. I can clear a lot of it with my Power Trac and 48" brushcutter, but there's some places too steep or too constrained (no runout, no turnaround, etc.). Plus, my Kohler's pressure-lube oil system is limited to 25 degrees. I have all sorts of needed attachments for the PT that makes it a "must-keep" scenario for use... so changing to a Ventrac or Steiner is not an option.

So, I'm looking for something 2-wheeled to handle the steeper areas, the treeline, etc., to minimize the use of a weed-whacker/brushblade. After a lot of research, I'm leaning toward the following USED machines:

1. Used DR weed/brush mower, with pressure lube engine AND locking differential. From what I've found, the locking diff came and went over the years, and I have to make sure the machine has both those features. That would allow me to also use it to mow the lawn which also has steep spots.

2. Used BCS tractor, but I am unsure of which models would be best suited. The BCS approach would allow me to initially clear it with a brush-cutter, then later maintain it with a sicklebar, while also replacing my 20+ year old Troybilt tiller at some point...

I've so far eliminated the following:

1. Gravely - because they're heavy, most (if not all) are splash lubed, and trying to find one with steering brakes is like looking for a needle in a haystack...

2. Billy Goat & Swisher because neither have locking diff, and reviews are mixed.

Any suggestions on what specific BCS models might work, since I know little about them...

Any other alternatives that I've missed?

Any feedback on using the DR or a BCS in these types of hillsides?

How does the BCS finish mower perform for mowing the lawn?

Thanks!

 

[bcp]

Why fight it? Let the steep slopes go back to forest.

Bruce

 

[farmerboybill]

When searching for diff lock, you'll be looking for the following models - 730 w/diff, 732, 735, 737, 604, 605, 830, 850, 852 or 853.

Lets eliminate a few, shall we?

First - those without brakes. 730 w/diff, 732. Both can have brakes added after the fact, but they have a few more pitfalls. The 730 with Diff lock is very hard to find because they made them only a couple years. Most 730s are solid axle. Also, the handlebars a a little light. The 732 is a nicely built machine, but overpriced when considering the loss of brakes and lack of a third working speed.

Second, those with limited ground speed - 730 w/diff lock, 732, 735. these three have two working speeds in mowing mode - .7 mph, and 1.7 mph. This can be sped up 20% with taller tires, but they're still slow. Slow is fin when you're in tight, difficult areas, but not for open areas.

Third, those with front mount only - 604. It's a fine machine for front mount only attachments, but if you ever decide to own a tiller, you're SOL.

This leaves you with the 737, 605, 830, 850, 852, and 853.

The 737 is a good all-around machine. It has three working speeds forward and reverse. It has a reverser, and the brakes are easily used. Fourth gear is transport and in tilling mode.

The 605 is the twin to the 737 - only difference being fourth transport is in mowing mode

The 830 and 850 are the same machines, but the 830 came with smaller tires (sometimes) and smaller engines. This model has stops at every gear to make shifting easier, easily accessed brakes, and heavier duty 3 dog PTO. Transport gear is in mower mode.

The 852 and 853 are like the 605 and 737 - twins, except the 852 has transport in mower mode and the 853's transport is in tiller mode. There are other points you have to watch on these models. First, some had the brake levers on the steering column. They're a little more of a pain to access. Also, being the newest machines and currently in production (until they force the powersafe down our throats) they're gonna be the highest priced used models.

My own personal machine is an 830 I mounted an 11 hp Lombardini diesel to. It's a very nice machine.

BCP - I have about 80 acres of solid woods and it's overgrown with non-native invasives - Buckthorn, Honeysuckle, Honey locust, Multiflora Rose, etc. Right now, I need to get a skid steer mounted mulcher to take down the big stuff, but once it's cleaned out, I need to run through it with smaller mowers to keep the invasives from taking over again. I imagine Kent is thinking similarly

 

[KentT]

This leaves you with the 737, 605, 830, 850, 852, and 853.

The 737 is a good all-around machine. It has three working speeds forward and reverse. It has a reverser, and the brakes are easily used. Fourth gear is transport and in tilling mode.

The 605 is the twin to the 737 - only difference being fourth transport is in mowing mode

The 830 and 850 are the same machines, but the 830 came with smaller tires (sometimes) and smaller engines. This model has stops at every gear to make shifting easier, easily accessed brakes, and heavier duty 3 dog PTO. Transport gear is in mower mode.

The 852 and 853 are like the 605 and 737 - twins, except the 852 has transport in mower mode and the 853's transport is in tiller mode. There are other points you have to watch on these models. First, some had the brake levers on the steering column. They're a little more of a pain to access. Also, being the newest machines and currently in production (until they force the powersafe down our throats) they're gonna be the highest priced used models.

My own personal machine is an 830 I mounted an 11 hp Lombardini diesel to. It's a very nice machine.

Thanks! This is exactly the kind of feedback that I was looking for...

And yes, it is overgrown with non-native invasives in several areas. I may selectively leave some native trees, but the rest needs to be brought under control. Thank goodness that I've seen no evidence of Kudzu at this point, largely honeysuckle and privet hedge...

 

[leonz]

Just bought an overgrown 15 acre farm that has some steep hillsides -- at least 30 degrees, maybe more -- to mow and clear up. I can clear a lot of it with my Power Trac and 48" brushcutter, but there's some places too steep or too constrained (no runout, no turnaround, etc.). Plus, my Kohler's pressure-lube oil system is limited to 25 degrees. I have all sorts of needed attachments for the PT that makes it a "must-keep" scenario for use... so changing to a Ventrac or Steiner is not an option.

So, I'm looking for something 2-wheeled to handle the steeper areas, the treeline, etc., to minimize the use of a weed-whacker/brushblade. After a lot of research, I'm leaning toward the following USED machines:

1. Used DR weed/brush mower, with pressure lube engine AND locking differential. From what I've found, the locking diff came and went over the years, and I have to make sure the machine has both those features. That would allow me to also use it to mow the lawn which also has steep spots.

2. Used BCS tractor, but I am unsure of which models would be best suited. The BCS approach would allow me to initially clear it with a brush-cutter, then later maintain it with a sicklebar, while also replacing my 20+ year old Troybilt tiller at some point...

I've so far eliminated the following:

1. Gravely - because they're heavy, most (if not all) are splash lubed, and trying to find one with steering brakes is like looking for a needle in a haystack...

2. Billy Goat & Swisher because neither have locking diff, and reviews are mixed.

Any suggestions on what specific BCS models might work, since I know little about them...

Any other alternatives that I've missed?

Any feedback on using the DR or a BCS in these types of hillsides?

How does the BCS finish mower perform for mowing the lawn?

Thanks!

Hello Kent,

I will candidly tell you that a 2 wheel tractor or any rubber tired tractor is not for this mess and I will tell you why.

The angle of attack and the angle of the slope are the two issues you are dealing with; as you say there is no means of turning around you have NO angle of attack which is the angle the tractor approaches the incline.

You will be much better off renting or hiring the largest skid steer loader with tracks that has a brush mower on it as the angle there is much more than 45 degrees and that is unsafe to walk with a 2 wheel tractor or any 2 wheel tractor!!!

The other thing is that side hill mowing is out of the question as the angle is much greater than 15 degrees as well.

You do not appear top have enough room from bottom to top to create switchbacks to allow you to ascend or desend the slope anyway.



Its a situation where a lot of weed killer is the only solution as the contractor or owner had no desire to fix it when the home was built but if you have drilled well that is not a good combination.The issue is stability and a two wheel tractor foes not and will have enough weight, traction or tread to deal with this.

Having someone come in with a mulcher head on an excavator or a timberjack tracked tree feller is the best way to deal with this angle as the tree feller can tilt to maintain a level machine at all times.

Its just to steep to work safely with a 2 wheel tractor as the tractor will run out of adhesion before it runs out of hill and gravity will not be your friend in this case.

 

[KentT]

Hello Kent,

I will candidly tell you that a 2 wheel tractor or any rubber tired tractor is not for this mess and i wil tell you why.

I appreciate the candid response. However, paying someone to come with expensive machinery on a regular basis to maintain it is simply not an option -- I can't afford it. I'll just have to do what I can safely do, and go from there...

The first item is to see how far I can climb those slopes with my Power-Trac with the brush-cutter raised, before losing traction. Note that the Power-Trac also lifts and tilts its front-mounted cutter, so I can handle that angle of attack, where I do have runout at the bottom.

 

[pacerron]

I appreciate the candid response. However, paying someone to come with expensive machinery on a regular basis to maintain it is simply not an option -- I can't afford it. I'll just have to do what I can safely do, and go from there...

The first item is to see how far I can climb those slopes with my Power-Trac with the brush-cutter raised, before losing traction. Note that the Power-Trac also lifts and tilts its front-mounted cutter, so I can handle that angle of attack, where I do have runout at the bottom.

Has the area in your pictures been strip mined in the past? If so be very careful of what outcrops might be hiding in the brush and of sinkholes.

 

[KentT]

Has the area in your pictures been strip mined in the past? If so be very careful of what outcrops might be hiding in the brush and of sinkholes.

No stripmining... just steep hills.

There's shale rock that is close to the surface in some areas... most of the land is of zero value for anything other than pasture -- and privacy.

 

[DKCDKC]

I'd consider renting or obtaining a small heard of goats. They do wonders here at cleaning invasives off slopes.

 

[KentT]

I'd consider renting or obtaining a small heard of goats. They do wonders here at cleaning invasives off slopes.

I've considered that... as a last resort, but goat-proof fencing can be a challenge all its own, as I understand it. It has 4 strands of barbed wire around it, but that won't contain goats, I don't think...

 

[AchingBack]

I am on my second DR mower. The first one I purchased in the early 1990's. It is the large wheeled 8hp model, with no reverse. It is still in use at my neighbor's house, as his ground is all flat, and mine is hilly, and my sand filter mound for my septic system is at a 30 degree angle. The old DR handled it with no problem. I gave it to my neighbor because I really needed reverse, and all terrain tires.

In the late 90's I bought a used DR electric start, 12.5 hp, Techumsa engine, with differential lock, all terrain tires, 4 forward gears, and reverse. It had very little use, and I was blessed to have paid only $900. Techumsa is going out of business, and recently when I had to replace the carburetor; there were only 2 in stock, at around $100.00. So, parts can be expensive, and possibly hard to obtain for some machines.

I mowed the sand filter with both of my DR mowers, and both did a very adequate job of cutting high grass and weeds. I have other slopes with blackberry, and saplings, and both mowers did well. Now days I use my brush hog because I am almost 70 years old, and would rather not walk and mow at the same time.

What I like so much about being a DR customer - they have fantastic service!

 

[leonz]

The problem with your site again is that it is too steep and the minute you attempt to climb it your two wheel tractor will want to fall to the left or right and roll over.


It happens with front end loader operators that stupidly push material up a stockpile face and think they are doing something of benefit while the stockpiles are being filled with an overhead conveyor.


The only absolute way that you should even consider doing this is with a Ramsey winch attached to the 2 wheel tractor and a second person operating the winch at the top with the winch mounted on a heavy pick up truck 3/4 ton with ballast.

 

[washita]

no experience with BCS, but my BIL has personally destroyed two hydrostatic drive transmissions in two different brands of brush cutters, I ruined the motor on my Gravely commercial 10A due to lack of proper lubrication because of steepness of grade while brush cutting (bought a PT 425 to replace Gravely), years ago we owned a ''slope mower'' 2 cycle engine and 20'' cut? self propelled , basically it traversed the slope in an arc while you stood at the top of the hill holding the rope that was attached to it, hmm wonder what ever became of it?, me personally ''day labor'' could possibly work if you do not mind having strangers wandering all over the property

 

[KentT]

I'll just have to see what I can do with loaded tires/wheel weights, wheel spacers and perhaps dual wheels and/or even tire chains. One of the reasons for trying it with a 2-wheeled tractor is that should the machine slip and roll, I'm not on it, but rather safely behind it -- on the opposite end from the cutter...

If I can get it cleared the first time, I think it could be maintained with a sicklebar, with dual wheels for stability.

Meanwhile, there are solutions for steep slopes, but perhaps not common in the US:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94ox1iK9MxA&feature=related"]Brielmaier Motormäher am Hang mit 3,5m Mähwerk und Hillrake - YouTube[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hpoV_4p4OQ&feature=related[/ame]

 

[farmerboybill]

Hmm, we musta been typing at the same time, Kent...

Hi Leon,

I looked again at Kents pics and don't see anything unacceptably steep for a two wheel tractor. It looks no steeper than my farm.

Here's a couple of many European videos showing two wheel tractors on hillsides. Is this steep?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP_-u5ydgnk&feature=channel&list=UL]Mountainpress en - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fEa5Nwi05A&feature=related]Rapid REX - Der leichteste Hydrom臧er der Welt - YouTube[/ame]

These are extreme examples, but two wheel tractors are MADE for steep hillsides where a 4 wheel tractor would roll over. The second video shows a Rapid powered by a Robin Subaru EX21 7 hp motor. There's also videos showing remote controlled two wheel tractors, but I couldn't find them right away. Any two wheel tractor can be dualled up and steel wheels are available from Earth Tools that will help "hold" the hill. You can also get axle extensions and wheel weights to increase stability. Kent may need to go with a sickle mower to get a widened cutting path to stay within the wheel tracks if he needs to get very wide.

 

[RichardTX]

Sideways tilt on any engine is much less tolerated on a engine than front to back tilt. Of all the pressure lubed engines I have seen the max side tilt is around 15 degrees. Front to back tilt is usually specified at 35 degrees. Some manuals said that angles greater than 35% can be tolerated for short periods of time whatever that means. One manual said that the engine could be operated at angles up to 45 degrees but that the carb was the limiting factor.

A Gravely powered with the Gravely engine also equipped with axle extenders was advertised as being capable of mowing anywhere a man could walk. That engine was pressure lubricated.

Gravely did sell a hillside mower but it was a rebadged Harper. It too was limited to 34 degrees. 162 All Terrain Slope Mower

I have mowed hillsides up to 45 degrees using a Gravely 4 wheel tractor with a pressure lubricated CCKA engine. I always mowed downhill on the steepest slopes and went uphill on the less steep slopes. Sure that meant that I was making a big circle but it got the job done. For those unfamiliar with the Gravely 4 wheel tractor, the engine and transmission was at the very rear of the tractor. The only issue was if the slope was at it's steepest and the grass was wet. The rear tires would lose traction (I had chains on too!) and it would skid down the hill until the tires gained purchase again. Skidding down the hill was unnerving. I could steer just fine, just the speed was uncontrolled.

Mowing sideways on a steep hill is a problem. I would not do it except with a hillside mower. It is too hard on the ankles and in the case of a 4 wheel tractor, sliding out of the seat is a real problem. Don't even think about a seat belt unless a proper ROPS is installed.

I consider mowing downhill with anything except a Gravely 4 wheeler risky at best. A different class of machine is another matter altogether.

 

[KentT]

Sideways tilt on any engine is much less tolerated on a engine than front to back tilt. Of all the pressure lubed engines I have seen the max side tilt is around 15 degrees. Front to back tilt is usually specified at 35 degrees. Some manuals said that angles greater than 35% can be tolerated for short periods of time whatever that means. One manual said that the engine could be operated at angles up to 45 degrees but that the carb was the limiting factor.
......

I have mowed hillsides up to 45 degrees using a Gravely 4 wheel tractor with a pressure lubricated CCKA engine. I always mowed downhill on the steepest slopes and went uphill on the less steep slopes. Sure that meant that I was making a big circle but it got the job done. For those unfamiliar with the Gravely 4 wheel tractor, the engine and transmission was at the very rear of the tractor. The only issue was if the slope was at it's steepest and the grass was wet. The rear tires would lose traction and it would skid down the hill.

Richard, I have similar experiences with my Power Trac, with a Kohler Command CH-25. Its lube system is supposedly limited to 25 degree slopes, and to be honest, that is about the sideslope capability of the machine, since it crabs so badly in those situations. But, I've mowed up and down slopes that far exceed that.

If I have sufficient runount at the bottom, I will attempt to mow straight down the hill with it. There will likely be lots of trips back to the top, so I can mow back downhill since (a) I need the weight of the lifted brushcutter on the front for frontwheel traction to climb it, (b) it will spin trying to push the cutter up steep slopes if the cutter is on the ground, and (c) I don't have the engine power to both power the cutter and climb this steep a slope simultaneously...

My concern is areas where there is no runout, and areas where it is so steep I may not be able to safely turn the articulated machine. That's where I'm looking for a 2-wheeled solution...

 

[Davestc29]

What about renting a dozer and leveling off some of those steep slopes

 

[KentT]

What about renting a dozer and leveling off some of those steep slopes

Not sure I understand -- how do you level them? As it is, where they've cut in a road down into that hollow, they've left me with areas above it that now have no run-out, making it even more a challenge.

The third pic below shows how little topsoil there is on that "road" bank, before you get down to "cracked/layered shale" . ..

 

[Davestc29]

I see what you mean, I've seen brush mower here in my neck of the woods mounted on the side of a tractor with sort of an excavator ARM and a brush mower to get the sides of the canals over here there similar to this but with a lot more reach and on the center of the tractor