Is the ROPS really needed?

[CobyRupert]

You're right!

 

[yelbike]

Yup, Rops does not discriminate who ever is strapped to the seat with the Rops up there is a 99% chance they will walk away, Modify or remove and it's a crap shoot.
Smart or Stupid people, in a roll over, Rops saves either.

Years ago it used to be just farmers that bought tractors, And without Rops. So I can see how some would view them and I see why they disagree with me.

Today with all the BX's, B etc. being sold in record numbers, many people other than farmers are buying them. For most it's their first tractor. If you have to guess a few 100,000 tractors out there by now? I don't know the numbers. How many get tipped each year? I'll bet it's quite a few. How many die? very few.

As a made up example to make my point.

This young couple buys a house. The guy tries talking his wife into buying a 3 year old used Kubota with the money they were going to use for the driveway. He says he can do all the landscaping and would not have to pay anybody else and in the end keep the Kubota..(against her wishes) He finally wins out and gets the Kubota.

They have it for a few months, did quite a bit of work around the yard, even got his wife to start using it. The Rops is always up and the seat belt is alway on, they were very careful with it. One day while his wife was using it she had the loaded bucket up too high and while on a slope the tractor rolled over twice down the hill. The first time the Rops just bent and the second roll over the left side of the Rops broke off causing the tractor to break her neck.

It was later found that the Rops have been cut and welded and because the heat was too high it burned through in a few spots. It was covered up with some bondo to make it look nice, it also had a great paint job, it looked new.
So the wife is paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of her life. Should the previous owner be held responsible? or should it be chalked up to Operator error? Or buyers fault for not asking if the new like Rops was messed with?

So just because it's your tractor now, it won't be forever yours. Make other Mods to your tractor keep your Rops intact. Or remove them when selling. A removed Rops is better than one just for looks giving the young couple above a false sense of safety. At least with the "mess with" Rops off, the buyer knows he should put one on the tractor or take a risk.

This is why a Video should not be made showing everyone "How To" cut down a safety device, make the factory Rops shorter and re weld it on a very popular tractor.
Because there are a lot of HACKS out there and just a few good welders that would put their name on it.

"These tractors just don't die they will be around forever with many new owners over the years."

Now whenever I get like this trying to make my point and convincing my wife of something, She always ends up says these two words to me that always shuts me up, You're Right
Now, I'm not really sure if that means she agrees with me, or after 35 years she found a way to shut me up.:confused3: I guess I'll never really know.

No different than buying a used car. You don't know the history. If you want to be sure, like 100% sure, so you can sue Kubota if your wife dies than buy brand spanking new!

I had it modified professionally, I wasn't there when they did it. Pretty sure there wasn't bondo.

Just like anything, sacrifice everyone's freedom for the few stupid hacks.

BTW I think your right too!! .

 

[ultrarunner]

If in doubt have an independant inspection...

It wasn't that long ago that a home inspection was rare... now it is SOP.

I'm a certified welder from a different life and would not hesitate to have Paul do any work for me... it's not only his passion it is his business.

Heck.. Paul puts his name on everything he does and then makes a video of it for the masses... just how much more can a guy do?

 

[DarkBlack]

I've known many local/garage welders, including do it yourself'rs who do finer fabrication and welding than the OEM offshore factories.
In fact some of the most faulty welds I have ever seen, have been of OEM.
It's a misleading premise, suggesting that these modifications will be by default, of inferior quality.

 

[WaxMan]

If in doubt have an independant inspection...

It wasn't that long ago that a home inspection was rare... now it is SOP.

I'm a certified welder from a different life and would not hesitate to have Paul do any work for me... it's not only his passion it is his business.

Heck.. Paul puts his name on everything he does and then makes a video of it for the masses... just how much more can a guy do?

I think your missing my point. Not talking about 4shorts work, I'm talking about all the others followers after watching the video.

 

[murphy1244]

If in doubt have an independant inspection...

It wasn't that long ago that a home inspection was rare... now it is SOP.

I'm a certified welder from a different life and would not hesitate to have Paul do any work for me... it's not only his passion it is his business.

Heck.. Paul puts his name on everything he does and then makes a video of it for the masses... just how much more can a guy do?

Then certify the ROPS and remove all doubt.:thumbsup:

 

[DarkBlack]

Why do we need to try so hard to save stupid people?

Stupid people have money that sellers want to take. If you push for 'dumb' safety, then you have a larger buying market. ( in the interest of safety of course, it's not about money )

 

[WaxMan]

I've known many local/garage welders, including do it yourself'rs who do finer fabrication and welding than the OEM offshore factories.
In fact some of the most faulty welds I have ever seen, have been of OEM.
It's a misleading premise, suggesting that these modifications will be by default, of inferior quality.

There default because they lack certifacation and would not be allowed on a tractor, I would not want my son or my wife be the test pilot to see if it holds up in a roll over.

 

[WaxMan]

Stupid people have money that sellers want to take. If you push for 'dumb' safety, then you have a larger buying market. ( in the interest of safety of course, it's not about money )

Do you even know what you're talking about or do you just throw stuff out there?

 

[DarkBlack]

Go to local racetracks and see all garage/hand built roll cages, with most of high quality. Joining multiple round tubes at various angles for high speed protection pretty much makes welding a simple ROPs tube child's play in comparison.

 

[ultrarunner]

ROPS can be modified and recertified... I have no idea how one would do this in Canada.

Most here probably don't have the equipment to attempt it and I'm certain the number is even less in the general public.

I worked in a Tool and Die Shop under contract for the space shuttle... welds I made were bought and paid for by the NASA... some were x-rayed and not all...

I'm not trying to convince anyone because at the end of the day we will all make our own decisions.

I did find the video interesting because I have a 7' door that is about 1" too short to leave my ROPS up all the time.

Even thought about buying a shorter top section if something would work...

If anything, Paul presented how it could be done should someone do it...

 

[LD1]

Again, it all comes down to the two types of people. Those who want to blame everyone else, and then the rest of us.

I should be able to do whatever I want to my tractor, regardless of how unsafe it makes it. It is up to the BUYER to make sure it is safe for HIM. It isnt my job to do it for him. Thats the point of "as-is". And buyer can ask whatever they want. So unless I lie about something or blatantly try to hide the truth, tough luck.

So if the buyer doesnt feel comfortable inspecting, and looking it over, then they should hire someone, and if they still aint comfortable, then dont buy used.

Again, all comes down to two types. I'll take responsibility for my own actions and pay the consequences whatever they may be. I wont be looking for a lawsuit and a way to get rich quick by blaming someone else because I was stupid about something.

 

[DarkBlack]

Years ago it used to be just farmers that bought tractors, And without Rops. So I can see how some would view them and I see why they disagree with me.
Today with all the BX's, B etc. being sold in record numbers, many people other than farmers are buying them. For most it's their first tractor. If you have to guess a few 100,000 tractors out there by now? I don't know the numbers. How many get tipped each year? I'll bet it's quite a few. How many die? very few.

Do you even know what you're talking about or do you just throw stuff out there?

Don't snap at me, it's your statement.
Like you said, the comapnies are targeting Harry homeowner with 1/2 acre. 40 years ago the lawn would have been mowed with a 3hp push mower. Today the tractor companies are enjoying big $ selling a $20k mini 'tractor' to do the same job, and it needs a ROPS to keep the company from loosing $$ in a 'stupid' lawsuit.

 

[WaxMan]

Stupid people have money that sellers want to take. If you push for 'dumb' safety, then you have a larger buying market. ( in the interest of safety of course, it's not about money )

What you wrote here is not what I wrote, that's just what you understand it to be. Like I said do even know what your talking about or just throw stuff out there.

Go to local racetracks and see all garage/hand built roll cages, with most of high quality. Joining multiple round tubes at various angles for high speed protection pretty much makes welding a simple ROPs tube child's play in comparison.

The Rops do not have all cross members in every direction so with that lack of support at every angle the only two places must be certified because there is not side to side support so it has to be extra strong its dsigned not to fold over sideways Without all the cage that you speak about. You can't assume every one that modifies the Rops is a Garage owner or race car builder or 4shorts.

He should have done it for his friend and just kept it quiet, Instead he, in not so many words gives the OK this is how its done video. The do as I say not as I do gets old.
If he is running out of ideas for his videos He should STOP when he starts cutting up Rops that are design and certified for tractor owners safety.
Like I said before he wouldn't drill 1/4 inch hole in his Rops and makes a big deal never ever mess with a Rops at that time.

 

[ultrarunner]

Seems to be no shortage of fab shops offering certification...

Here is one link and I found it interesting that Canada has no national standard... certification in one Provence does not necessarily carry over...

One-stop shop for ROPS and FOPS

This certification stamp is acknowledged in every Canadian province except Quebec, which has its own set of standards

 

[skyhook]

Again, it all comes down to the two types of people. Those who want to blame everyone else, and then the rest of us.

I should be able to do whatever I want to my tractor, regardless of how unsafe it makes it. It is up to the BUYER to make sure it is safe for HIM. It isnt my job to do it for him. Thats the point of "as-is". And buyer can ask whatever they want. So unless I lie about something or blatantly try to hide the truth, tough luck.

So if the buyer doesnt feel comfortable inspecting, and looking it over, then they should hire someone, and if they still aint comfortable, then dont buy used.

Again, all comes down to two types. I'll take responsibility for my own actions and pay the consequences whatever they may be. I wont be looking for a lawsuit and a way to get rich quick by blaming someone else because I was stupid about something.

Your absolutely right, LD1... the old saying, yer dammed if you do and etc....
The blame game has and will always be played, just take a look at some dealer's,
not just for tractors either,
If i want to ride my motorcycle without a helmet, I will, Am I stupid for doing so, maybe....
Makes you wonder why I did it in the first place, But, "I" wanted too, and i did it at my own risk.
Evel Knievel and Houdini come to mind, man,,...were they ever stupid...
I don't have a ROPS on my machine, I have a cab, but if I did,
it would be to hold my light's, if it was in the way of storing my machine, it definitely would be modified.

 

[CobyRupert]

Are seat belts really needed? Is insurance really needed? No, unless it is.
The "are ROPS really needed" question is too general. The OP needs to be more specific. Such as "When are ROPS needed?"
When not tipping over, not needed.
When tipping over, needed.
It's really as simple as that.
Just like insurance and seat belts. Do you need them? Maybe.

 

[WaxMan]

Again, it all comes down to the two types of people. Those who want to blame everyone else, and then the rest of us.

I should be able to do whatever I want to my tractor, regardless of how unsafe it makes it. It is up to the BUYER to make sure it is safe for HIM. It isnt my job to do it for him. Thats the point of "as-is". And buyer can ask whatever they want. So unless I lie about something or blatantly try to hide the truth, tough luck.

So if the buyer doesnt feel comfortable inspecting, and looking it over, then they should hire someone, and if they still aint comfortable, then dont buy used.

Again, all comes down to two types. I'll take responsibility for my own actions and pay the consequences whatever they may be. I wont be looking for a lawsuit and a way to get rich quick by blaming someone else because I was stupid about something.

I hope you don't think I'm in the category as suing everyone. I'm not. Never sued in my life or anybody in my family has not sued anyone
Thats the whole problem with this country Lawyers, Ads on TV everyday, if you took this, if this happen to you, call 123 win win I hate it. Don't put me in that category.

I own my own business and I certainly don't want to be involve in someone suing me. I do things so I don't get sued. I take responsibility for my own actions. That is why I would not make my tractor unsafe and then sell it to someone else. That is taking responsibility for my own actions.



If you really felt that way about taking responsibility for your own actions you wouldn't make your tractor unsafe with all the rights in the world as you say, then sell it to someone as is and hope they don't ask any questions. If they don't your free and clear. Then blame them because they never asked, as you say above, it's their fault, It isn't my job to do it for him as you said. So much for you taking responsibility. Your the one who made it unsafe.

Wouldn't you be the one blaming someone else? Its someones else's fault as you said above. Wouldn't that be you in this case of the sale of your unsafe tractor. Your the one that made your tractor unsafe yet you want to blame the new owner because he was unaware and never asked.

So are you the first type of person as you say or like the rest of us. One that blame others or takes responsibility I can't tell from your overall statement.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Why do we need to try so hard to save stupid people?

'Cause God got tired of looking after them...

 

[TomSeller]

'Cause God got tired of looking after them...

Good one. Very funny.