Wrong tool for the job

[Phillip w]

Had a tree i was tired of and decided to push it with the tractor thinking it would up root and i would not have a stump to mow around. Well, as you can see in the photo it broke about even with the ground. I just told a guy on here that one of these little tractors would dig out a stump. I was totally off base with that idea. I jumped on mf because of ease and operational convenience. The little massey didn't do to good. Not enough hp, push power, hydraulics, and weight. It is not just my little massey, i think any of these little tractors would have trouble. Little tractors are not the right tool for stump removal.

 

[4570Man]

Tractor FELs against 14" stumps are a joke. Tractor backhoes aren't much better. A real backhoe and preferably an excavator is leaps and bounds better.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Using pretty much ANY SIZE FEL for such a task is the wrong tool.

Maybe a little clue in the "loader" part of the description.

 

[4570Man]

Using pretty much ANY SIZE FEL for such a task is the wrong tool.

Maybe a little clue in the "loader" part of the description.

They’re made for LOADING not digging stumps. But if I had to push stumps out I think a 988 cat would be better than a compact tractor.

 

[Phillip w]

Fuel man supposed to bring me fuel tomorrow, im just about out. I got faith in the allis. If im pushing and lifting at the same time i think i can get it. I've only had the back end of the allis off the ground once and that is an erie feeling. The little massey is alway trying to come off the ground. However, i did think the massey should have done a better job digging around the stump that it did. Usually something like a stump or big rock you have to dig out. Other than size and weight, you also dont have to have the engine screaming to get any hp out of it. Just 2nd gear, barely crack the throttle a little and let it push. To much throttle and you loosing traction and spinning wheels. That old allis and i have pushed alot of stuff, old barns, trees and all kinds of stuff. I just can't understand why the little mf did such a poor job digging. I figured dig around with the little one and knock it out with the big one.

 

[Thomas]

That's a LOT of work for most tractors....better than hand shovel.

 

[BrokenTrack]

Fuel man supposed to bring me fuel tomorrow, im just about out. I got faith in the allis. If im pushing and lifting at the same time i think i can get it. I've only had the back end of the allis off the ground once and that is an erie feeling. The little massey is alway trying to come off the ground. However, i did think the massey should have done a better job digging around the stump that it did. Usually something like a stump or big rock you have to dig out. Other than size and weight, you also dont have to have the engine screaming to get any hp out of it. Just 2nd gear, barely crack the throttle a little and let it push. To much throttle and you loosing traction and spinning wheels. That old allis and i have pushed alot of stuff, old barns, trees and all kinds of stuff. I just can't understand why the little mf did such a poor job digging. I figured dig around with the little one and knock it out with the big one.

Pulling stumps is not what a lot of people think. They think that it is like a tooth where the tap root goes deep. On some types of trees that is true; Ash and White Pine being some of the toughest stumps to pull, but mostly it is like glass over a puddle of water on a hard surface. It is not the tap root holding it to the soil, but rather the "suction". You got to break that suction, and that means getting under the stump. A bulldozer works well, an excavator better, but both take a lot of weight to hold the machine to the earth while it does it.

Even with the Allis you are going to struggle. Wrong geometry with no where near the breakout forces needed.

I had a stump many years ago; small and rotted for a few years. I dug at it for quite awhile with my front end loader and was not making much headway. Finally I turned around, put a chain around it, and hooked it to my drawbar. Pulling it, it drug it right out of the ground without even spinning a tire.

 

[mcfarmall]

I've had better results pulling with the drawbar than pushing with anything except a dozer.

 

[M5farms]

chain saw , and a burn barrel will have the stump burnt down below ground level in fairly quick

 

[Grandad4]

The pictures make it look like that tree had a lot of dead wood in the center. If that's correct, it was likely to break like that no matter what you were pushing with. Also pretty dangerous because a weakened tree will be unpredictable in which way it will fall. If it had been a solid, healthy tree, your tractor probably would not have been big enough to pop the roots out so the tree could fall. You need big iron to shove over anything larger than maybe an 8" or 10" tree. But I got rid of many,many trees by dropping them with the chainsaw and digging out the stump with the backhoe. As a senior citizen, I can say from experience that this is young man's work!

 

[Industrial Toys]

Used to be, a man could meander into the town hardware store (I think Hinkles (sp?) Hardware in Clarksburg, Ontario) and grab a box of explosives for such tasks. We once (in the 80s) bought a box of forcite 40% for a weekend of fun! Surprised us, how much you actually needed for underground work.

 

[CobyRupert]

Used to be, a man could meander into the town hardware store (I think Hinkles (sp?) Hardware in Clarksburg, Ontario) and grab a box of explosives for such tasks. We once (in the 80s) bought a box of forcite 40% for a weekend of fun! Surprised us, how much you actually needed for underground work.

...that might be what you call a twofer (i.e. 2-4-1), you can get rid of the barn too!


A root ball can weigh a LOT. I don't think it takes a very big root ball to equal a cubic yard of dirt (which can be over a ton)

"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world."- Archimedes (paraphrase).
It's surprising what a cable attached 12' (or 16' 20') up the tree can do when your levering out a 3' deep root ball.

I found these numbers on the web (must be true!), but actually the weights seem a little light. These were planting guidelines, not removal, so take them with a grain of salt.
Tree diameter Root Ball Diameter Estimated Weight
1.0 - 1.5" 19" 150 lbs.
1.5 - 2.0" 24" 300 lbs.
2.0 - 2.5" 26" 400 lbs.
2.5 - 3.0" 28" 550 lbs.
3.0 - 3.5" 35" 900 lbs.
3.5 - 4.0" 40" 1,500 lbs.
4.0 - 4.5" 45" 2,200 lbs.
4.5 - 5.0" 51" 3,200 lbs.
5.0 - 6.0" 57" 4,600 lbs.
6.0 - 7.0" 65" 5,500 lbs.

 

[oosik]

I'm just really fortunate. I've cut my pines for firewood, had them selectively logged and dropped a few due to pine bark beetle. Never worry about the stump - with time Mother Nature will rot it away.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I would have used a subsoiler as close to the tree as possible and ripped the roots on all four sides prior to pushing it. Getting all the feeder roots cut reduces the root ball and makes it easy to push over trees without a long taproot.

 

[Doofy]

I would have used a subsoiler as close to the tree as possible and ripped the roots on all four sides prior to pushing it. Getting all the feeder roots cut reduces the root ball and makes it easy to push over trees without a long taproot.

I just ordered a subsoiler for this exact purpose. Takes to long to dig out with a small hoe. Hope it works.

 

[Phillip w]

Used to be, a man could meander into the town hardware store (I think Hinkles (sp?) Hardware in Clarksburg, Ontario) and grab a box of explosives for such tasks. We once (in the 80s) bought a box of forcite 40% for a weekend of fun! Surprised us, how much you actually needed for underground work.

Old timers used to used a mixture of sugar and pot ash. I dont know the recipe formula. I wish i did. But apparently it is highly explosive. Apparently if they got the recipe a little wrong, it turned the stump in to toothpicks. Anyone know the recipe?

 

[JRobyn]

When we were kids, we'd make homemade gunpowder with ground charcoal, sulphur, and saltpeter (potassium nitrate).

 

[Doofy]

There is no better fun than to blow something up! To bad we are the last generation to enjoy this activity growing up. Loved Cherry Bombs and M-80s and the occasional sticks of dynamite.

 

[micdelbo]

There is no better fun than to blow something up! To bad we are the last generation to enjoy this activity growing up. Loved Cherry Bombs and M-80s and the occasional sticks of dynamite.

Thank God black powder is still available. Not for the tree shown since it was too close to the building, but anywhere else... Quart can of black powder buried under the stump, stand behind a good size tree and bye bye tree stump.

 

[Coyote machine]

Ripper tooth on a tractor frame mounted hoe levels all comers. It's necessary to break or dislodge roots all the way around most stumps before they are able to be pushed over by the FEL.
FEL's by themselves are not designed to do digging- loading and some pushing straight on to center of loader, NOT corners.
Drawbar is only place to pull from, again NOT the FEL. Otherwise one can flip a tractor in short order.