What type of 220v outlet?

[ericm979]

I'm going to get a 220 line run to the garage with the idea of being able to run an electric car charger some time in the future, and also to allow using a 220v welder.

What kind of outlet do I need?

I looked at a random Everlast welder and it looks like a 6-50 plug (from the pic and I'm not an expert; could not find it in the documentation). Discussions about electric car chargers indicate they mostly use a 6-50 but some use 14-50 and many people consider that better as it has a neutral connector.

The easy place to put an outlet and charging station is ~20 feet from where I weld, is an extension cord ok?

Anything else I should think about?

 

[CNC Dan]

Yes, use a NEMA 6-50 outlet.
It has become the de-facto "welder outlet".
And many electric charging stations can use that outlet for "stage two" charging level.

As for an extension cord, 20 feet or more is just fine. Just make it heavy enough to handle the current. You could use 10 gage for up to 30 amps continuous, I'm not sure what 8 gage is rated for.

 

[yomax4]

You really need to look at cost. If you can swing 6ga wire, I would encourage that. 8ga is a great 2nd option too but anything less? do the math and go that route but I vote for 8ga minimum for a welder circuit. It does depend on what you consider a "Welder" though. Opinions vary due to needs so if you plan to run a light duty machine go light. Good Luck !!

 

[KennyG]

Wiring depends on your welder and usage. Remember that welders are intermittant so the extension cord wiring can be lighter than the actual amperage would indicate. However, matching your circuit wiring would be safest. I'm running my Lincoln 180 on a 30 amp, 10 ga circuit and I have a 50 foot 10 ga. extension cord. All works well, never tripped a breaker and the extension cord never has any noticeable temperature increase.

 

[ericm979]

I don't have a 220v welder yet, just the 110v mig welder I've had for 20 years. Whatever I get probably won't be super large, I don't see needing to weld much thicker than 3/8 steel. Glad to know that the extension cord is ok, that makes outlet placement easier. Thanks!

 

[ericm979]

One more dumb question- can I put two outlets like a 30a and a 50a or two 50a on a circuit served by a 50a breaker? It's done on 110v outlets all the time. Obviously I would not run the car charger and the welder at the same time. But it'd save having to unplug the charger when I want to weld.

 

[aczlan]

One more dumb question- can I put two outlets like a 30a and a 50a or two 50a on a circuit served by a 50a breaker? It's done on 110v outlets all the time. Obviously I would not run the car charger and the welder at the same time. But it'd save having to unplug the charger when I want to weld.

IIRC, the outlets cannot be rated for less than the breaker (with the exception of multiple outlets rated for 15 amps at the outlet, or 20 amps pass through on a 20 amp circuit), so you could mix 30 and 50 amp outlets on a 30 amp breaker, but not on a 50 amp one.
You could however, put in 2 50 amp plugs, then make a 50 to 30 amp adapter for the charger (or put a 50 amp plug on the charger cord).
You could also put in a 2 space subpanel (such as: Murray LC2GSU Load Center, 2 Space, 4 Circuit, 6A Main Lug, Indoor, Surface mount - Circuit Breakers - Amazon.com ) with a 50 and a 30 amp breaker (such as: Murray MP2523CT2 One 3-Amp Double Pole One 5-Amp Double Pole Circuit Breaker - - Amazon.com ) and put your two outlets off of that.

Aaron Z

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

IIRC, the outlets cannot be rated for less than the breaker (with the exception of multiple outlets rated for 15 amps at the outlet, or 20 amps pass through on a 20 amp circuit), so you could mix 30 and 50 amp outlets on a 30 amp breaker, but not on a 50 amp one.
You could however, put in 2 50 amp plugs, then make a 50 to 30 amp adapter for the charger (or put a 50 amp plug on the charger cord).
You could also put in a 2 space subpanel (such as: Murray LC2GSU Load Center, 2 Space, 4 Circuit, 6A Main Lug, Indoor, Surface mount - Circuit Breakers - Amazon.com ) with a 50 and a 30 amp breaker (such as: Murray MP2523CT2 One 3-Amp Double Pole One 5-Amp Double Pole Circuit Breaker - - Amazon.com ) and put your two outlets off of that.

Aaron Z

It can be rated for less when wiring welders. If using a "rated" input, it can be derated by the duty cycle (there's a formula) and if using a separate rating, such as Everlast does, you wire the breaker to the inrush and the wire gauge to the effective current.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I'm going to get a 220 line run to the garage with the idea of being able to run an electric car charger some time in the future, and also to allow using a 220v welder.

What kind of outlet do I need?

I looked at a random Everlast welder and it looks like a 6-50 plug (from the pic and I'm not an expert; could not find it in the documentation). Discussions about electric car chargers indicate they mostly use a 6-50 but some use 14-50 and many people consider that better as it has a neutral connector.

The easy place to put an outlet and charging station is ~20 feet from where I weld, is an extension cord ok?

Anything else I should think about?

Neutral is for a dedicated 110 circuit, so it can be run safely without having to utilize the ground as the return path. Circuits with stoves or dryers have a 110V circuit for clocks and timers. A welder does not need nor require it or benefit from it.

 

[vvanders]

For an EV you'll probably want a 14-50. That's what Tesla uses and I think the others do as well. We had to swap out the welder outlet for one when we got ours.

 

[kevinwak]

One more dumb question- can I put two outlets like a 30a and a 50a or two 50a on a circuit served by a 50a breaker? It's done on 110v outlets all the time. Obviously I would not run the car charger and the welder at the same time. But it'd save having to unplug the charger when I want to weld.

I am doing similar in my garage right now. Was adding the welder and started wondering if I should put outlets for some commercial grade woodwork tools. Now my plan is to have a simple 8 spot subpanel and then run the various outlets I could want just below it.

 

[WranglerX]

Why are you worrying about electric vehicle you do not have....

Wire in the 50 amp 6-50 plug for welder....

If you get electric vehicle later make adapter cord with 6-50P plug on one end and the 14-50R receptacle on other end for cord from electric vehicle you may or may not purchase later....

Dale

 

[vvanders]

I'm 95% sure that type of adapter isn't code compliant and if anything happens (say adapter catches on fire and burns down your house) you can bet your dollars insurance will reject any homeowner claim.

 

[LittleBill21]

I'm 95% sure that type of adapter isn't code compliant and if anything happens (say adapter catches on fire and burns down your house) you can bet your dollars insurance will reject any homeowner claim.

not remotely true. home owners are covered for stupid, not for arson. i have asked 6 different insurance agency and all have agreed. code constantly changes, knob and tube is still insured here.

 

[vvanders]

Sure, if it was compliant at the time of installation then you're covered however if you make any updates you have to match code or they will deny the claim. I asked our agent and he was pretty clear on that.

Also, do you want to risk $100k+ on that assumption? I sure wouldn't.

Lastly NEMA 6-50 doesn't have a neutral, NEMA 14-50 does so you can't physically adapt them without breaking code. Had to deal with that when we swapped it out, was lucky that the plug was basically adjacent to the panel which made pulling a neutral simple.

 

[WranglerX]

So pull in 3 wire with safety ground and put in transfer switch, one side of switch to 6-50 (minus neutral) and other side of switch to 14-50 with neutral.. Transfer switch eliminates both receptacles be energises as same time, therefor eliminate some of the issues of putting two different receptical on same circuit and inadvertently trying to use the two at same time and overloading circuit...

Dale

 

[ericm979]

Dang, I suspected asking a question involving 220 would start a heated discussion. It seems overly complicated.

All the car chargers I have looked at (not for Tesla) have 6-50 plugs. The transfer switch is a good idea.

 

[WranglerX]

This brings up what is "standard" for out in the world charging stations?

And do you carry your own cord or does "station" supply umbilical?

Dale

 

[Sodo]

I have a TIG and a MIG. I got tired of unplugging. I did it like this.

Someday I will weld TIG with my right hand cuz I'm right handed. While at the same time running the MIG with my left (cuz MIG is easier). That way I can get my welding done without exceeding the duty cycles and of course the horrible, and frequent PITA of wasting time while the machine cools down.

:laughing:

:laughing:

Yeah but it's real nice to NO longer have to plug & unplug welders.

 

[yomax4]

I have a TIG and a MIG. I got tired of unplugging. I did it like this.

Someday I will weld TIG with my right hand cuz I'm right handed. While at the same time running the MIG with my left (cuz MIG is easier). That way I can get my welding done without exceeding the duty cycles and of course the horrible, and frequent PITA of wasting time while the machine cools down.

:laughing:

:laughing:

Yeah but it's real nice to NO longer have to plug & unplug welders.

I did very similar.