First decision: CUT vs construction backhoe

[rScotty]

I understand some industrials have inching clutches (mine does but, it hasn't worked from my first day of ownership)

Do any tractors have inching clutches?

I don't know of any tractors that do, but some true TLBs have an inching function that you use to move the tractor forwards or reverse very lowly when you are sitting with the chair reversed in the backhoe position. It's handy & keeps you from needing to turn the chair back around to move a foot or two.

Our JD310SG TLB doesn't have it, not even sure if it is an option on the SG. The Kubota M59 does have the inching function and it works fine. Funny thing is that it isn't even mentioned in their sales brochure at the time. I had to look at the operator's manual to see what that lever did. I didn't know it had that function when we bought it.

For those saying, "What's an inching function?" It's just a lever you can reach easily without having to turn the chair back around from the backhoe position. Mechanically it isn't anything extra in the drivetrain. It tends to be a series of cables that advance the throttle just a little bit while simultaneously engaging the transmission... Notorious for getting out of adjustment and tricky to adjust. I bet your JCB is just out of adjustment because if the tractor works, the inching function almost has have the potential to work too.
rScotty

 

[Richard]

Maybe I'm using the wrong word for it (though I think it's what I was told it was)

In my case, I have a full fledged "clutch pedal"..... I was wondering why I had this clutch but the clutch didn't stop the machine!

I was told it's an inching clutch.... "the way I understand it" is...

If you are for example loading material into a dump truck, you want to get close to the truck so you can dump but not SO close, you ram into it. So you can apply the inching clutch and now, your forward/reverse movements are greatly slowed down giving you "micro-control" .

In my case, the left foot would be holding the clutch while the left hand is operating forward/reverse and the right foot is operating the throttle.

I don't know that's how it works....it's simply my interpretation of what I was told. Since I don't do anything like that and have never needed to be micro-careful, it's not a problem to me that it doesn't work.

When my chair is turned and I'm using the backhoe, I usually move the machine by reaching behind me to raise the front bucket then, use the hoe to push/pull or crab myself to a new position (which is a minor movement of machine, not something like 10 feet).

I have a hand throttle to the left of the seat (when you're facing the backhoe) so in rare occasions that I need to actually MOVE the machine forward, I will raise the stabilizers, reach behind me and raise front bucket. I can then click it into forward and use the hand throttle to gas it a little bit.

Frankly, by the time you go through these gymnastics, it's easier to simply turn the chair around and drive the machine.

For adjusting the backend of the machine though..... crabbing is the way to go. Fast, easy and can plant yourself where you want to be. Took me a couple tries to get accustomed to it because the machine can/will teeter/totter since you are only on two pivot points. Once you figure it out, it's easy to do.

 

[ovrszd]

Maybe he meant Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB)?

Those are some meaty looking rocks. A compact tractor will have a heck of a time loosening and removing those without a lot of manual labor involved too. A construction TLB will work circles around a compact, doing earthwork. Just don't ask it to mow.

If it were me, I would buy an older Case 580 or Ford 555, preferably with 4wd. Do the heavy work with it and then if warranted, trade down to a smaller machine when you feel the backhoe is no longer needed.

Yep.

In the pics posted I didn't see an area the size of a CUT that didn't have a rock sticking up?? A CUT will only aggravate the operator in these conditions.

This property will require a LOT of patience and time.

 

[ovrszd]

My full-size backhoe has a stick on the steering column with 1-4 gears and 1-4 gears in reverse. There痴 no such rodeo action. It痴 much smoother than gear drive with a clutch. Probably 99 percent as smooth and precise as a HST. I can hit my machine in 1st gear and it won稚 move until I let off the brake. You can easily ease up on the brake for precise movements. Pretty much identical to an automatic transmission vehicle except I have all gears in reverse. Not that that痴 a useful feature. I壇 rate the power shift in my backhoe or whatever term you want to call it as being equal to a HST. There痴 no foot clutch in the backhoe. You致e got neutral and a button on the loader stick that engages neutral.

Yep. Very useable and controllable.

rScotty is proficient in his descriptions of what he's familiar with. But he's not all inclusive.

 

[Coach v]

What is the deal with the Kubota l48? They seem to run less expensive than the l45 and l39.

 

[Coach v]

Yep.

In the pics posted I didn't see an area the size of a CUT that didn't have a rock sticking up?? A CUT will only aggravate the operator in these conditions.

This property will require a LOT of patience and time.

We started building on the property 13 years ago. After finishing the build, which was like a marathon sprint, I have done everything by hand. I am getting older and need some sort of tractor. Leaning hard toward l45 or deere 110.

 

[ovrszd]

Isn稚 that what the brakes are for? You can hold the machine locked with the brakes and either ease up on the brakes or increase the throttle until it moves as easy as you want. I agree probably not as smooth as a HST but I致e never seen a full size backhoe have that option.

I agree. In all of rScotty's self proclaimed experience I wonder if he's ever operated a good torque convertor setup. Not a human alive that can run a dry clutch as smooth as a good torque convertor in any traction situation.

With my 30 yr old TLB, at an idle on flat hard ground, I can engage my forward shuttle and get out of the tractor and walk away. It will simply sit there. Only will move if rpms are added.

For the OP I believe this setup to be the best for his situation. Money is going to be the limiting factor.

 

[ovrszd]

We started building on the property 13 years ago. After finishing the build, which was like a marathon sprint, I have done everything by hand. I am getting older and need some sort of tractor. Leaning hard toward l45 or deere 110.

I think those would be very good choices and serve you very well!!!

 

[rScotty]

I agree. In all of rScotty's self proclaimed experience I wonder if he's ever operated a good torque convertor setup. Not a human alive that can run a dry clutch as smooth as a good torque convertor in any traction situation.

With my 30 yr old TLB, at an idle on flat hard ground, I can engage my forward shuttle and get out of the tractor and walk away. It will simply sit there. Only will move if rpms are added.

For the OP I believe this setup to be the best for his situation. Money is going to be the limiting factor.

Yes, expertise is sef-proclaimed on the internet. Nobody really knows who (or what) anyone is. I rightly claim a lot of expertise. PM me if you are curious. Otherwise, take it all with a gain of salt.

BTW, I disagree on the smooth torque converter vs good smooth dry clutch....but does it really matter? What we are talking about is ice & hillsides, not dry ground. I'd go along with you on dry ground. But on ice the tires will spin in the same situation that you describe because as I said the friction is too low to hold the machine in place. And on a hill it may slide.
Can you use one in that situation?? Well, of course you can. In fact I do. I use ours just like that. But I get out of shape sometimes too. And the coach is a newby and I've got 50 years experience. He's looking for advice; not answers.
rScotty

 

[ovrszd]

Yes, expertise is sef-proclaimed on the internet. Nobody really knows who (or what) anyone is. I rightly claim a lot of expertise. PM me if you are curious. Otherwise, take it all with a gain of salt.

BTW, I disagree on the food torque converter vs good smooth dry clutch....but does it really matter? What we are talking about is ice & hillsides, not dry ground. I'd go along with you on dry ground. But on ice the tires will spin in the same situation that you describe because as I said the friction is too low to hold the machine in place. And on a hill it may slide.
Can you use one in that situation?? Well, of course you can. In fact I do. I use ours just like that. But I get out of shape sometimes too. And the coach is a newby and I've got 50 years experience. He's looking for advice; not answers.
rScotty

Yep, and I contend if tire slippage happens with the properly operated torque convertor machine it's going to happen with the dry clutch machine as well.

I also contend, for a novice, the torque convertor machine is much easier to learn to operate.

 

[Coach v]

And the coach is a newby and I've got 50 years experience. He's looking for advice; not answers.
rScotty

Yupp, definitely a newbie. I have about 30 hrs on the skid steer in the 1st pic, 8 hrs on a case 580, and limited (1 or so hrs) on b21, mini ex, front loader, farm tractor).

I guess it comes down to a $10-15k 2x4 construction backhoe or a $25-35k l45 or jd 110.

 

[rScotty]

What is the deal with the Kubota l48? They seem to run less expensive than the l45 and l39.

I don't know that there is anything wrong with them. They just sort of got left behind when Kubota brought out the M59 at the end of the l48 model run. And the M59 has a lot more features. But that doesn't make the L48 a bad machine. It's got pretty much the same engine as the M59 but without the turbo, and a similar transmission but without the addition of the two-speed electo/hydraulic split shifter kind of rear axle. The M59 is just a tiny bit larger and has more hydraulic capability.

We bought our M59 iin 2008, and the l48 was one we considered. There was even one on the lot for about 45K. I ran it and it seemed fine. But the M59 was 52K and clearly a step up in lots of ways & had 5 years 0% financing. I ran the l48 and frankly might have gotten it except I'm a fairly large guy with big feet and couldn't spin the seat around backwards to the backhoe position without standing up and half stepping off the tractor. That probably wasn't a big deal, but my wife had her eye set on the M59. So I did the wise thing and didn't argue. Today she loves "her" M59 and is proud she chose it. Who would want to change that?

But if I saw a good L39 or L48 I wouldn't hesitate. The L39 are pricy because their size is just so darn handy and they are really overbuilt. So maybe the L48 was sort of caught in the middle between two more popular models. I don't hear any problems, though. Maybe someone else knows more.

Check out that old 60 page TBN post on M59s?? There was one guy who had an L48 & posted a lot then.
I'll look and see if I have some L48 literature.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Yupp, definitely a newbie. I have about 30 hrs on the skid steer in the 1st pic, 8 hrs on a case 580, and limited (1 or so hrs) on b21, mini ex, front loader, farm tractor).

I guess it comes down to a $10-15k 2x4 construction backhoe or a $25-35k l45 or jd 110.

The JD110 is a beautiful machine and I wish they still made it. But they don't, they did have some mechanical problems and weren't quite heavily enough constructed...., and parts are expensive.But the concept was terrrific. But they are older now and I'd stay away unless you find a really clean one with low hours. Even then I concluded that the Kubota is a better machine. In fact, all the Kubota TLBs are a lot like second generation JD110s. Sad JD didn't stick with it.

Uh...I see you looking at the L48 and the L45 both. The L48 was first, from 2000-2009 with a 3 speed HST, then the L45 from 2009 to 2016 (and had HST+ tranny; the good one), and now it is the L47. All good as far as I know. For some reason the mid-size TLB just never sold as well as Kubota TLBs both smaller and larger.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Just for comparison, here is a good closeup view of the M59 and JD310 backhoe buckets. Originally I thought that both were 24" buckets but now that I look closer at the photo I think that I have the 12" wide bucket on the M59. I'm kinda guessing because 24" buckets on both have 5 teeth and that bucket on the M59 bucket looks to have only 3.

Anyway, what I'm trying to show comes through. You can compare how heavily they are built, how the depth of "bite" differs, pin size, tooth size etc.

And I guess I just proved to myself that from the side it's hard to tell backhoe buckets apart. Even when they vary in width a lot, the profile from the side doesn't change much at all. From the side both the M59's 12" and the 24 inch wide buckets look the same.
rScotty

Oh, and here's a picture showing both the M59 and the L45. We were talking about that earlier...
rS

 

[fried1765]

I don't know that there is anything wrong with them. They just sort of got left behind when Kubota brought out the M59 at the end of the l48 model run. And the M59 has a lot more features. But that doesn't make the L48 a bad machine. It's got pretty much the same engine as the M59 but without the turbo, and a similar transmission but without the addition of the two-speed electo/hydraulic split shifter kind of rear axle. The M59 is just a tiny bit larger and has more hydraulic capability.

We bought our M59 iin 2008, and the l48 was one we considered. There was even one on the lot for about 45K. I ran it and it seemed fine. But the M59 was 52K and clearly a step up in lots of ways & had 5 years 0% financing. I ran the l48 and frankly might have gotten it except I'm a fairly large guy with big feet and couldn't spin the seat around backwards to the backhoe position without standing up and half stepping off the tractor. That probably wasn't a big deal, but my wife had her eye set on the M59. So I did the wise thing and didn't argue. Today she loves "her" M59 and is proud she chose it. Who would want to change that?

But if I saw a good L39 or L48 I wouldn't hesitate. The L39 are pricy because their size is just so darn handy and they are really overbuilt. So maybe the L48 was sort of caught in the middle between two more popular models. I don't hear any problems, though. Maybe someone else knows more.

Check out that old 60 page TBN post on M59s?? There was one guy who had an L48 & posted a lot then.
I'll look and see if I have some L48 literature.




I think the L48 will be a great play machine (for me).
Two weeks ago I bought a 2006 model, from an original owner, with 250 total hours.
32K....not cheap, but exceptionally low time.
4 remotes, hydraulic QA loader bucket pins, backhoe QA bucket.
Looks new, except for some areas of fading paint.
Needs seat repair.
I will give it a partial repaint.

 

[Coach v]

So, where is the best place to look for a used backhoe? Equipmenttrader, machinery trader, Craigslist?

 

[rScotty]

So, where is the best place to look for a used backhoe? Equipmenttrader, machinery trader, Craigslist?

First of all, figure out what you are looking for. Not model, but is it condition or price? My own preference is for low hour excellent condition and and I figure that Im going to pay top dollar but I save over the price of new. I don't mind if a conscienscious owner puts the first 600 hours on my new-to-me machine. In fact, I could even see that as an advantege. Even more so if he took ten years to put on the hours.

last two real good deals on tractors I ran into were at the dealership chatting to the sales manager - not just any salesman. The sales manager is always the person who knows of people thinking of trading good used machines in so that they could get brand new ones. He knows because his salesmen discuss it with him. One tractor I bought (M59 demo coming back from the state fair) & one I should have - a 310 that belonged to a homeowner/hobbyist who had it for many years for doing retirement projects around his place. The 310 owner didn't want to trade it in, he was getting too old and mentioned it to the salesman - now the sales manager - who had sold it to him originally.

The other place is at the coffee shops where rural people hang out. Often in a small town. They sometimes have an old cork bulletin board or maybe a local website just for people in the area who have machines for sale .
rScotty

 

[Rmart30]

In your situation myself id buy a used backhoe and not look back. CUT and these micro tractors with backhoes to me are just aggrevating once you have ran full sized backhoes and trackhoes.

Knock all your tough work out with it and sell it when done and recoup most if not all of your purchase price. A backhoe will shame a tractor (unless its 80hp+) with what it can do and the quickness of it. Once all the hard stuff is done then id buy me a tractor to keep up the maintenance of the property.

 

[ovrszd]

RScotty, I'm curious why you keep pushing him toward a $30-40-50K machine when you know he can't afford that?

For example, I think you should buy a $250K Dozer or Grader to do smoothing work around your place.

 

[ovrszd]

In your situation myself id buy a used backhoe and not look back. CUT and these micro tractors with backhoes to me are just aggrevating once you have ran full sized backhoes and trackhoes.

Knock all your tough work out with it and sell it when done and recoup most if not all of your purchase price. A backhoe will shame a tractor (unless its 80hp+) with what it can do and the quickness of it. Once all the hard stuff is done then id buy me a tractor to keep up the maintenance of the property.

I agree. Buy one within your budget. Only crank it to do tasks that a tractor won't. Minimize wear/tear and potential breakdown. Then sell it to someone just like yourself.