Min tractor size for repairing long gravel driveway with potholes?

[Hay Dude]

I think i'll start with open cab. I have a leanto on the property that i want to park it under and it wouldn't fit with a cab on it. Figure I can always cobble something together later if i decide i need to defend myself from the snow. Parking and navigation between trees on the forest trails is what makes me gravitate more toward trying to buy the smallest tractor that's capable of the work i have. A larger tractor than i truly need would just mean wasted fuel, higher upfront cost, higher implement cost, and higher parts costs down the road. I'd rather spend an extra hour per project and possibly be a little frustrated than waste the money -- as long as the job gets done.

--

I'm still trying to sort it all out, but it seems that the tractor market is kind of similar to the power tool in that there are a handful of manufacturers that make several major brands.
LS makes models for -> New Holland, Case + 8 others
TYM makes models for -> Branson, RK, Mahindra, Zetor + 10 others
Yanmar makes models for -> Deere, Zen-Noh
Daedong makes models for -> New Holland, Bobcat, Cub Cadet + 5 others
Mitsubishi makes models for -> Case, Mahindra, Cub Cadet, IH+ 3 others

Tractors built by other manufacturers

tractors.fandom.com

Another way to look at it is New Holland buys and rebadges tractors from several other manufactures: Al-Ghazi, Buhler Versatile, Iseki, Landini, LS, Shanghai, Shibaura, Turk Traktor

List of tractors built by other companies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Though, specs can certainly vary between what the manufacturer makes for themselves vs what they make for another company. For example, LS may make their own MT125 better or worse than how they make the NH Workmaster 25s. However, either way, if LS were to fail then you'd be out of luck with repairing a Workmaster tractor. Similarly, if Daedong were to go out of business then there would no longer be parts for the NH Boomer line. Kind of makes you have to think a bit about the perspective of which ones are the real 'off brands'.. is it New Holland, or is it LS/Daedong? Kind of like how some people are fan favorites of CubCadet and may say to avoid TroyBilts because they've had nothing but bad experiences with them.. yet they're both made by MTD. We all tend to develop or own brand favoritism, whether it is logical or not.

I'm mostly interested in looking beyond brand prestige/favoritism and simply finding the best value available. As i continue to research I'm finding that just about all of the major brands should hold up well over time and i feel I should be more concerned about features/capabilities than the sticker or paint colors. Getting the objective information about capabilities is a bit tricky though. Some people say you shouldn't bother clearing snow from a long driveway with anything less than 40HP and an 8 foot blade, yet others will use a walk behind blower because they're not worried about efficiency.

Your money, but I will say buying the smallest possible tractor to do the job usually results in a trade-in for larger down the road.
Up front cost on an older/bigger tractor are probably same as a newer/smaller tractor.
Don’t always count on larger tractor parts being more expensive, either. Filters for my Case-IH are cheaper than for my smaller Kubotas. But yes, tires cost more and usually they hold more oil in transmission, engine, rears, etc.
As far as fuel consumption cost goes, generally bigger tractors consume more. However, if a bigger tractor with an 8’ blade can grade your driveway in 1-2 passes versus a small one with a 5’ blade requiring 4 passes, the fuel consumption should be pretty comparable. Same goes with a bigger tractor with an 8-10’ bush hog making less passes than a smaller tractor with a 5-6’ bush hog.

when shopping brands, take a look around the back of the dealership. Observe how much road service equipment they have and how big their shop is. Usually (not always) more is better. Research the dealer. I buy from service-oriented dealers rather than lowest price. Just one service call/repair can make all the difference in the world. One of the dealers is massive, the other is on the smaller side, but the one thing they have in common is they LIVE to repair equipment quickly.

Just some things to think about.

 

[airbiscuit]

From my 15hp Shibaura to my 40hp New Holland - they all sip fuel. You will likely spend more on gas for your riding mowers. If the OP is using fuel usage as an argument for buying a small tractor, he seems determined to buy a small tractor no matter what anyone says. It will make a great first tractor.

 

[btarb24]

Too funny! I’m in the same area and actually looked at your house when it came on the market earlier this year! I’m certainly no expert, but I think the previous owner was on the right track with the NH they had sitting there. I took a look at one of my mapping apps because the place we ended up buying has ~500’ of driveway and I remember yours being a lot longer. I’m coming up with more like 1100’ feet of driveway for your place, which is quite a bit.

Whatever you end up doing, if you buy new definitely hit a few dealers. I was looking at NH and Kubota and was leaning toward a NH Workmaster 75 because the first Kubota dealer I spoke to just quoted me straight MSRP for everything and it would have been at least a 3-month wait for anything I ordered. Tried another Kubota dealer and ended up buying an M4 that was on the lot for close to $10K under MSRP.

Well that sure is a coincidence. I also like how you joined the site just to share it - fun! We had driven up from Pittsburgh the morning after it was listed. By that same evening there were already 8 offers on it. We definitely significantly overpaid on it, but we're happy with the choice. The one thing that keeps making us smile about the NY area is how no matter where we go everyone is always waving and saying hi as you go by. So many people are genuinely nice and polite here

Yea, you're right. I'm not sure how i had 650' for the driveway stuck in my head, but it's closer to 1100-1200'. Though, either way, I wont be in too big of a hurry to clear it. I sit at a desk all day for my job so I always look forward to chores and projects that are outdoors. The culverts that are in the driveway now aren't very effective and the driveway has very poor drainage. One part of the plan is to connect all the culverts with a ditch and create a crown to help reduce the standing water and washout on the driveway. All the heavy rain we got this year really did a number on it in short order. I'll likely be buying a mini excavator for that job though, i suppose if I find a used tractor with a hoe then i may give it a whirl with that.. not too hopeful but maybe it'll surprise me.

Here's an interesting video where a sub compact struggles with a full 5' box. I realize this would be some serious frustration for some, but I think i'm in the camp with this guy and wont really mind cutting the load in half/making more passes as long as the job is ultimately able to get done.

Here's another one with a more standard 4' box on a 1025R and it seems to work well enough with the scarifiers for me. Struggles a slight bit, but not too badly. The tractor definitely wont impress my neighbors, but does seem to be adequate for the job.

The more i research it the more the 25hp subcompact feels like it will be a good fit for us.

 

[dodge man]

One thing with JD and Kubota, they both make subcompact tractors, they also make a compact tractor similar in horsepower but with larger tires and chassis. These don’t cost a lot more, maybe $2k to $3k more. You get some more capability for the money.

Don’t let the size overwhelm you. I had a Kubota BX for 10 years and have a JD 2025r for two. When I first got on the larger JD it seemed huge but I adjusted quickly. The subcompacts seem more like the size of a riding mower to a beginner but if you go larger you will adjust quickly.

 

[big bubba]

i'd be looking at an entry level L series (low 40's hp), all the better if you can find a good one used, then put savings into implements

 

[jjp8182]

One thing with JD and Kubota, they both make subcompact tractors, they also make a compact tractor similar in horsepower but with larger tires and chassis. These don’t cost a lot more, maybe $2k to $3k more. You get some more capability for the money.

Don’t let the size overwhelm you. I had a Kubota BX for 10 years and have a JD 2025r for two. When I first got on the larger JD it seemed huge but I adjusted quickly. The subcompacts seem more like the size of a riding mower to a beginner but if you go larger you will adjust quickly.

Very true .... it's almost like tractors shrink once you've got them on the property and have been using them for awhile.

Really does come down to size/weight/power vs. time to do a task - and with modern electronic fuel injection a larger engine doesn't necessarily equate to more fuel usage all the time.

Granted modern Tier 4 engines aren't exactly fuel guzzlers either .... generally burning less than a gallon/hour with my L3560 (running wide open most of the time). Not exactly costly given the amount of work that can be done in an hour.

......now that I think about it, I may actually be using less fuel to mow my whole property now (with a 72" 3pt finish mower) than I used with the prior gas riding mowers to mow 1/2 to 1/3 of my property. However, I know it's doing a lot less turf damage since the grass has recovered from the wear of the smaller/lighter riding mowers.

 

[RVL]

Well that sure is a coincidence. I also like how you joined the site just to share it - fun! We had driven up from Pittsburgh the morning after it was listed. By that same evening there were already 8 offers on it. We definitely significantly overpaid on it, but we're happy with the choice. The one thing that keeps making us smile about the NY area is how no matter where we go everyone is always waving and saying hi as you go by. So many people are genuinely nice and polite here

Haha, yeah I’ve been lurking around here since we bought our place and I started looking for my own tractor, but I had to say something when I saw your post. There was a crazy amount of interest in your place. It’s a very nice house but the acreage wasn’t exactly what we were looking for, and I’m thankful for that because I wouldn’t have wanted to be in that bidding war! Congrats on the purchase though, when you know you’ve found the perfect place for you, you can live with over paying a little.

 

[fried1765]

I think i'll start with open cab. I have a leanto on the property that i want to park it under and it wouldn't fit with a cab on it. Figure I can always cobble something together later if i decide i need to defend myself from the snow. Parking and navigation between trees on the forest trails is what makes me gravitate more toward trying to buy the smallest tractor that's capable of the work i have. A larger tractor than i truly need would just mean wasted fuel, higher upfront cost, higher implement cost, and higher parts costs down the road. I'd rather spend an extra hour per project and possibly be a little frustrated than waste the money -- as long as the job gets done.

--

I'm still trying to sort it all out, but it seems that the tractor market is kind of similar to the power tool in that there are a handful of manufacturers that make several major brands.
LS makes models for -> New Holland, Case + 8 others
TYM makes models for -> Branson, RK, Mahindra, Zetor + 10 others
Yanmar makes models for -> Deere, Zen-Noh
Daedong makes models for -> New Holland, Bobcat, Cub Cadet + 5 others
Mitsubishi makes models for -> Case, Mahindra, Cub Cadet, IH+ 3 others

Tractors built by other manufacturers

tractors.fandom.com

Another way to look at it is New Holland buys and rebadges tractors from several other manufactures: Al-Ghazi, Buhler Versatile, Iseki, Landini, LS, Shanghai, Shibaura, Turk Traktor

List of tractors built by other companies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Though, specs can certainly vary between what the manufacturer makes for themselves vs what they make for another company. For example, LS may make their own MT125 better or worse than how they make the NH Workmaster 25s. However, either way, if LS were to fail then you'd be out of luck with repairing a Workmaster tractor. Similarly, if Daedong were to go out of business then there would no longer be parts for the NH Boomer line. Kind of makes you have to think a bit about the perspective of which ones are the real 'off brands'.. is it New Holland, or is it LS/Daedong? Kind of like how some people are fan favorites of CubCadet and may say to avoid TroyBilts because they've had nothing but bad experiences with them.. yet they're both made by MTD. We all tend to develop or own brand favoritism, whether it is logical or not.

I'm mostly interested in looking beyond brand prestige/favoritism and simply finding the best value available. As i continue to research I'm finding that just about all of the major brands should hold up well over time and i feel I should be more concerned about features/capabilities than the sticker or paint colors. Getting the objective information about capabilities is a bit tricky though. Some people say you shouldn't bother clearing snow from a long driveway with anything less than 40HP and an 8 foot blade, yet others will use a walk behind blower because they're not worried about efficiency.

One more time!
BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR!

 

[btarb24]

One more time!
BUY ENOUGH TRACTOR!

While I appreciate the advice. I'm curious how you would quantify what the threshold of having enough tractor is.

Do you perhaps know of any videos or stories of a subcompact failing at the snow blowing or box blade tasks? I'm ok with a bit of a struggle.. it's only the flat out failure that i would spend money to avoid.

 

[4570Man]

While I appreciate the advice. I'm curious how you would quantify what the threshold of having enough tractor is.

Do you perhaps know of any videos or stories of a subcompact failing at the snow blowing or box blade tasks? I'm ok with a bit of a struggle.. it's only the flat out failure that i would spend money to avoid.

Given enough time a BX would do anything. Men have done more with less for thousands of years. But that doesn’t make it a good option. A bigger tractor would be a lot better. And most of your logic is flawed. More fuel burned per hour isn’t the measurement. 1/3 gallons per hour vs 1 gallon per hour for 1/3 as long. Who really won? More expensive parts? Not really. They’re all sky high. Not breaking to start with because it’s too small and being abused would be a lot better. The implement buying cost for a BX vs a L isn’t considerable. And there’s no way I’d buy a machine without a cab with the main use being snow removal.

 

[airbiscuit]

Those small rear tires on a BX are going to have far less traction than any larger tractor (even a B series Kiubota). A B series Kubota will be just as nimble in the woods and more stable. I'm not saying a BX won't get the job done one way or another, but the day will come when you will wish you had purchased a bigger tractor.

You seem dead set on getting a SCUT, so why are you asking for advice on this forum?

 

[IndyJay]

Given enough time a BX would do anything. Men have done more with less for thousands of years. But that doesn’t make it a good option. A bigger tractor would be a lot better. And most of your logic is flawed. More fuel burned per hour isn’t the measurement. 1/3 gallons per hour vs 1 gallon per hour for 1/3 as long. Who really won? More expensive parts? Not really. They’re all sky high. Not breaking to start with because it’s too small and being abused would be a lot better. The implement buying cost for a BX vs a L isn’t considerable. And there’s no way I’d buy a machine without a cab with the main use being snow removal.

My 34HP Massey 1250 used ~30 gallons over 16-20 hours to mow my field. My 45HP Kioti uses 12 gallons to mow the same area in about half the time. Smaller doesn't always translate to more economical.

 

[the old grind]

I say go small if you will but not so small you give up having a third transmission range or 3PH position control. IME lacking either would have an owner ask a friend to kick their couch cushion within a week. (20 yrs with 4 23-35hp CUTs) When I bought more tractors they were/are the same size. Rotating seats vs attachments on three such HST CUTs now, only one bought new btw. Different tasks but IMO the general size does the most for the lest and any one can back up another if I'm willing to pull a few pins.

 

[fried1765]

Those small rear tires on a BX are going to have far less traction than any larger tractor (even a B series Kiubota). A B series Kubota will be just as nimble in the woods and more stable. I'm not saying a BX won't get the job done one way or another, but the day will come when you will wish you had purchased a bigger tractor.

You seem dead set on getting a SCUT, so why are you asking for advice on this forum?

EXACTLY !!!!

 

[bcp]

Figure out what size tractor closely fits all your needs, then buy one size larger.

Bruce

 

[JWR]

This has been an interesting 70 posts so far. Every peanut gallery self-appointed expert like me has an opinion. We still have a very limited glimpse of your circumstance and not a lot to go on -- you have almost 1/4 mile of driveway with a short 10% slope steep end to maintain (both snow removal in Albany NY region and grading/surface and drainage, etc.), on the order of 40 some acres of woods and some trails, you intend to cut grass with a Zero Turn, and you don't expect to cut grass and brush with this tractor. You have plenty of dealers not too far away. You plan or at least mention an excavator for drain/ditch/road related stuff. By osmosis we smell that the 1/4 mile long drive is the #1 priority for this tractor -- both snow and grading the base & surface. Don't know if forrest and trails matter much, overhanging limbs, removal of dead tree parts, etc.

Many of us have advised against getting too small a tractor for what you have to do. You think it is a ho-hum tradeoff between time it takes and size of machine. Everyone knows you need 4wd. A BX1800 ain't big enough and a 95hp rig is too big. The former owner had a TC33 size tractor but that does not seem to impress you as a data point.
I say get something around 40hp or a little bigger, be damn sure it is 4wd, a good 5ft snowblower, a 7ft grader blade, and a front end loader. Quick. If you want to enjoy the blizzard without a cab have at it. We don't care. Most of the time the cab would be a hindrance anyway.

Silly discussion tangents have gone off on things like fuel economy -- fuel expenditure is well below whale crap in priority in this kind of situation. Negligible. Parking !? You gotta be kidding. In the middle of somewhere between 40 and 50 acres...?? Putting a crown on a 1/4 mile long stone driveway ? Do you have help or are you alone on these outdoor chores? Have you ever operated farm tractors and/or heavy equipment ? [Not questioning your capacty, just saying it matters.] We don't know if you have a small garage, a barn, a spacious equipment shed or no shelter at all or plans to build one.

You have very little time left to do SOMETHING before the first winter in your new place hits you. That's why I said QUICK above. It takes a lot of time to acquire the tractor, fix the inevitable bugs, get comfortable operating it and fit all that in with being a new property owner. Even if you goof and have to revise your stable before August 2022 that is better than no decision in time to cope with the winter of 21-22.

 

[metalbender]

Take a hint from your dear old mother. Like when she bought your clothes, she always bought a bit bigger because you will GROW into them.

 

[btarb24]

You seem dead set on getting a SCUT, so why are you asking for advice on this forum?

Thus far i've seen enough videos of 25hp subcompacts getting the job done successfully that the next rational stage in the process is to learn when/how/why a 25hp scut would be insufficient. The general feedback thus far seems to be buy oversized so you don't regret it, but that's a rather wasteful approach in my eyes. I'd much rather discuss, debate, and logically reason though the data to determine the most optimized result.

I'll still be continuing to research before making a purchase, but i was hoping the forum approach would help to offer some real life data and insight that I wasn't able to glean from watching youtube.

Does anyone happen to have any real life experience with trying to use a subCompact to do their box blade work? The companies seem to make plenty of these smaller tractors as well as the smaller 4' box blades to go with them. Surely someone out there is using them?

 

[K5lwq]

A scut can do a lot of work. A cut can do a lot more work. Weight is the difference maker.

I have done amazing things with my 8hp Speedex tractor with wheel weights. I did more work with my 15hp Satoh Beaver. But my 25HP Kioti and 48HP Branson work circles around the others I have because they are heavier. And if I went another size up, I could do quite a bit more yet.

So the answer to your question is yes you can get a lot done with a 25hp scut. It will just take longer and it will have to work hard. You will find you are always pushing the limits. Good luck with your search.

 

[mo1]

Didn’t read all responses, but I would buy an older, cheaper, heavier tractor and put a 7’-8’ blade on it instead of a modern, expensive, complex one that’s lighter with a 5’ blade.
Weight and size seem to go largely unheralded, but that combination gets the work done fast and simple.
A wider, heavier blade does a nicer job with less passes and will do a nice snowplow job, too.
Plus ya get the fun factor of some bigger HP

Weight is absolutely critical, if you don't have enough weight for the tires to get traction and pull, it doesn't matter if you have a 2WD or an MFWD, you just spin your tires. Most compact tractors are very light for their engine power and don't have all that much pulling ability compared to an actual utility tractor that is noticeably heavier. The other thing that can help a lot is having the appropriate tires, if you are concerned first and foremost about traction, you would get R1s.

I agree with Dodge Man except to say that lacking a loader is NOT the only problem! In my opinion an old, large 2WD tractor is tons of trouble for you with little or no benefit. a) no loader b) you will regret lacking 4WD every day of ownership. A 2wd tractor is a stuck tractor at some point for no good reason. You will never regret getting a 4WD. c) No belly mower possibility d) lack of many attachments you may want in the future, on and on. From what you have told us and shown us a compact 4wd in the 24-40 hp range is most appropo.

Still have not heard how much you will be mowing, how big the overall property is, etc. Brush to cut or no ?

2WD tractors are far from useless and they actually do have some advantages over MFWD tractors. They often have a noticeably better turning radius (particularly compared to a straight-axle MFWD tractor), they can't suffer from leaking seals that eventually plaques nearly all MFWD units, they can't suffer from broken MFWD hardware, and often the 2WD front axles and spindles are stouter than the analogous hardware used in the MFWD version. If ground compaction is an issue, 2WD units are usually can be set up with less weight than their MFWD version can, and they are less expensive as well. Loaders can be made to fit a 2WD tractor more closely than they can an MFWD tractor due to less worries about wheel clearance, and thus aren't nearly as much of a pain in the behind to work with. A 2WD will make you a little more judicious about ballast, but you should be properly ballasted anyway, especially with MFWD tractors lest you overload that front axle and break a lot of expensive parts.

If you are comparing an older 2WD utility tractor to a new MFWD compact, the 2WD utility tractor with filled tires and R1 tires like nearly all of them have will grossly outpull the MFWD compact. I can tell you personally that a 30 HP MFWD compact has a small fraction of the pull of a 75 HP 2WD utility tractor as I've had both and used some of the same implements with both. It's a real night and day difference in traction with at least twice the weight in the larger tractor.

Belly mowers are only an option on smaller compact tractors and a zero-turn like the original poster says they have is a much better lawn mower than anything with a belly mower. As it should be, a zero turn is a single-purpose-built tool and excels at its one designed purpose.

I am not aware of any attachments that are only available for MFWD tractors specifically, besides front fenders or front duals/triples. If you are talking about a larger utility tractors vs. compacts, a utility tractor can run about anything that a compact can and then a lot of stuff a compact can't. One of the few compact implements that a utility tractor can't run (because they are tractor-specific) is a belly mower, but see above regarding that. The only caveat is that a larger utility tractor has the weight, traction, and power to break attachments made for smaller compacts.

To the OP:
You will probably want a tractor larger/heavier than a Kubota BX to blade a driveway as those small tractors are lightweight and with pulling a blade, you will be traction limited well before you are power limited. If you wanted a 25 HP unit, going a couple of sizes up to something like an L2501 with loaded ag tires and possibly rear wheel weights as well would be more appropriate.