Economical means for treating wooden fence posts

[besttec]

While I have searched posts on TractorByNet in the past, I have only just joined the Community. I am replacing wooden fence posts with like landscape "timbers". While sold to be in contact with the ground, I doubt they will last long as they come from the big box store. I have researched methods to lengthen the life span of wooden posts set in the ground and have decided to try the following mixture of diesel, used motor oil, wood ash, diatomaceous earth, borax. I plan to soak the 8' long timbers completely submerged in the mixture and have place for the timbers to "dry" once completed and before having to handle and install them, of course using appropriate gloves. I have two questions... 1) does anyone have an economical suggestion for a "tub" that will hold timbers 8' in length and the soaking solution? The vessel would have to be resistant to the components of the mixture and substantial to hold the weight of the mixture and however many of the posts I can soak at one time. My thoughts have been a galvanized stock tank at least 8' long, but I may have to trim my posts to fit and those tanks are a little more $ at that size than I wish to spend. Something in the 8-10 foot length, 2' wide, and about 2' deep(high) would do the trick. 2) I have a planter constructed of 2"x6" boards on 4"x4" posts that I had planned to use with some kind of liner to contain the "soak". Can anyone recommend a material that would be resistant to the components I have listed that I can use as a liner in this trough? I am considering a sheet of PVC Shower Pan Liner but am not sure the PVC will withstand the diesel/motor oil/ash, et al mixture. I have a protected area to leave this soak out of the weather, but a leak of the material would be an unwelcome mess. I have considered plastic sheeting but fear that would develop leaks.

The post treatment is based on old-timer's recommendations and research I have conducted online. These will be installed in a rural setting after they have had time to absorb the treatment and drain off and collect any excess mixture when removed from the soak.

Any ideas to answer these questions or suggestions regarding treating the posts are appreciated. I have looked at "asphalt" treating the post bottoms, using a sleeve to protect the bottom, and other methods that I feel leaves too much exposed to the elements (weather, insects, microbes, etc.). If anyone has experience with a good recommendation for my application is appreciated. I suspect my existing posts are less than 10 years old and I would like to be able to at least double the anticipated life of these posts. I am considering setting the posts in concrete with "domed" tops to drain away rain water...

Thanks in advance, everyone! If this post is not in the best location, I welcome a moderator re-positioning it in the best location to generate results.

 

[cqaigy2]

Ground contact:
I seem to remember my dad soaking the bottom of post in a barrel with diesel and something else in it. They lasted quite a few years. I'm sure the "something else" was the magic sauce and probably isn't available anymore. That was for ground contact as it fence post.

For protection from the sun:
I did read an article from many years ago, about somebody using a mixture of spar varnish, paraffin wax and a solvent. The lumber was soaked for a few weeks. I think it was a study that National Parks did, i think it was from the 70's.

 

[ponytug]

You might look at a sheet of UHMW polyethylene for a liner. If it is thick enough, you might think about digging a hole to hold everything, if you have a way to keep water out.

For long term posts, I highly recommend metal caps, or at least sloping the top so the water drains. If you cut the tops, the cut portion will require retreating. The fifty year posts that we have had sheet metal tops. Granted, they had much more potent preservative treatment.

The fine print on "ground contact" pressure treated wood around here is... that contact with the ground voids the warranty. I think that the ground contact use requires a liner / soil barrier to keep the wood from ever actually touching soil.

Not to be a nervous Nelly; you don't indicate where you are, but there may be environmental and water regulations that you might want to be aware of.

FWIW: When I put in a new wood fence ten years ago, I came away with the impression that steel 3-4" posts were the rot resistant way to go, but for the cost, I could put in several wood fences using standard 8x8" pressure treated posts. So far, there are a few "looser" posts that clearly have some underground decay, but probably fewer than one in twenty over ten years.

All the best,

Peter

 

[NoTrespassing]

As an aside, I've dug up old black locust fence posts on my property that I know were well over 50 years old. They were as solid as can be. They are very difficult to drive fasteners in for fencing though.

You can buy black locust 4x4's but they are very pricey.

As someone else mentioned, I would treat the bottom of the posts you are going to use and I'd probably use creosote. I always backfill with pea gravel, it tightens up as it settles, at least in my clay soil. Angle cut the tops and stain them.

Kevin

 

[Cougsfan]

In my experience, anything you try is hit and miss. One of the biggest factors is the wood itself. Some woods (redwood, cedar) will last a lot longer than others. Even if made from the same wood, some pieces of wood will last longer than others with ground contact. Old fashion creosote is probably the best home applied preservative. However when you just dip the end of the post in a bucket you will get mixed results based the porosity of the wood, the temperature of the creosote (hot is better) and how long you let it soak. Commercial wood preservatives are not usually very effective.

Commercial pressure treatment, though, is probably better than any home mixture and treatment, and is quicker, cheaper and a lot less bother, and has just as good if not better chance to last a long time. I wouldn't be so quick to look past that solution if I were you.
.
PVC liners or sleeves are not always a great solution as they can retain moisture just as well as keeps it out. The same with concrete.

The soil moisture and retainage conditions are as important as the wood selection. Drainage is a the big issue. What you do with the backfill is important to the life of the wood. If the soil can drain and not retain moisture it will help a lot. Sand and gravel are good drainage materials. Moving to a desert where it never rains is the best solution .

 

[fried1765]

While I have searched posts on TractorByNet in the past, I have only just joined the Community. I am replacing wooden fence posts with like landscape "timbers". While sold to be in contact with the ground, I doubt they will last long as they come from the big box store. I have researched methods to lengthen the life span of wooden posts set in the ground and have decided to try the following mixture of diesel, used motor oil, wood ash, diatomaceous earth, borax. I plan to soak the 8' long timbers completely submerged in the mixture and have place for the timbers to "dry" once completed and before having to handle and install them, of course using appropriate gloves. I have two questions... 1) does anyone have an economical suggestion for a "tub" that will hold timbers 8' in length and the soaking solution? The vessel would have to be resistant to the components of the mixture and substantial to hold the weight of the mixture and however many of the posts I can soak at one time. My thoughts have been a galvanized stock tank at least 8' long, but I may have to trim my posts to fit and those tanks are a little more $ at that size than I wish to spend. Something in the 8-10 foot length, 2' wide, and about 2' deep(high) would do the trick. 2) I have a planter constructed of 2"x6" boards on 4"x4" posts that I had planned to use with some kind of liner to contain the "soak". Can anyone recommend a material that would be resistant to the components I have listed that I can use as a liner in this trough? I am considering a sheet of PVC Shower Pan Liner but am not sure the PVC will withstand the diesel/motor oil/ash, et al mixture. I have a protected area to leave this soak out of the weather, but a leak of the material would be an unwelcome mess. I have considered plastic sheeting but fear that would develop leaks.

The post treatment is based on old-timer's recommendations and research I have conducted online. These will be installed in a rural setting after they have had time to absorb the treatment and drain off and collect any excess mixture when removed from the soak.

Any ideas to answer these questions or suggestions regarding treating the posts are appreciated. I have looked at "asphalt" treating the post bottoms, using a sleeve to protect the bottom, and other methods that I feel leaves too much exposed to the elements (weather, insects, microbes, etc.). If anyone has experience with a good recommendation for my application is appreciated. I suspect my existing posts are less than 10 years old and I would like to be able to at least double the anticipated life of these posts. I am considering setting the posts in concrete with "domed" tops to drain away rain water...

Thanks in advance, everyone! If this post is not in the best location, I welcome a moderator re-positioning it in the best location to generate results.

Find a source of used plastic 55 gallon drums, and cut the tops off.
Stand the posts up in the drums.
You do not need to treat the entire length of the posts, just the portion of the post that will be in the ground.
If you want to later protect the above ground portion of the posts, just use several coats of good quality paint.

 

[Gee Ray]

I did 1 x 8 cypress boards for the siding of a house/barn by making a box out of 2 x 6 and then a piece of poly builders plastic as a liner. I soaked them in linseed oil and mineral spirts before I hung them in a board and batten pattern. I cut cypress fencing boards in half lengthwise as the batten.

The wooden tub worked well and used the boards in the house so it only cost the price of the roll of plastic.

Are you looking at the landscape timbers that are rounded on 2 sides and flat on 2 sides from the big box stores? I have seen them used as fence post and they did not hold up very well. They are not the best cuts of wood. They look nice as new posts but age out quickly. Buy a better grade of wood for your post. IMHO.

The pressure treated wood that you by from big box stores is not the same PT that you could buy years ago. Fine a lumber yard that sells marine grade PT. It will last a lot longer.

 

[TractorTYMe]

A mixture of old engine oil and paint thinner or diesel for soaking up works wonder from old skool point of vew.

 

[ponytug]

X2 on the importance of drainage, and gravel below the post.

If you are lucky enough to be able to get locust, that is definitely the way to go. It is extremely rot resistant.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Have tractor did travel]

You don't say where you're located, so don't know if this link is good for you or not, but maybe good for others. I get my creosote treated lumber from Marine Timbers

You could also use coal tar extract driveway sealer. Outlawed in many locations. It goes on like paint, so try not to damage the finish when dropping into the ground.

As others have mentioned, good to dig a foot deeper than the post is going, and fill that extra depth with gravel, asphalt millings, or sand - something that will allow water to drop to the bottom of the hole. Keep that water away from the open grain of the post. That will also keep your posts from freeze/thaw heaving (if you're in the north)

 

[Have tractor did travel]

I don't know what happened with the link. Here we go again.

Marine Timbers | bayouforest

Bayou Forest Products offers long-lasting Marine Timbers, including 12" square piles, treated for saltwater (Creosote, CCA) and Freshwater (Ec0-friendly).

www.bayouforest.com

 

[denchen]

My understanding is that a `pressure' treatment plant works by, The timber is put in an air tight container, The container is filled with the treatment liquid. A vacuum is applied to the tank. A short time is allowed, then the pressure is released. Another time limit is allowed. The liquid is drained off, The timber is removed and allowed to drain. This method is so the liquid is drawn into the timber, instead of just waiting for it to soak in. Perhaps a small unit could be made with a small vacuum pump.

 

[mwemaxxowner]

My understanding is that a `pressure' treatment plant works by, The timber is put in an air tight container, The container is filled with the treatment liquid. A vacuum is applied to the tank. A short time is allowed, then the pressure is released. Another time limit is allowed. The liquid is drained off, The timber is removed and allowed to drain. This method is so the liquid is drawn into the timber, instead of just waiting for it to soak in. Perhaps a small unit could be made with a small vacuum pump.

Almost, you're missing one step.

We pull a vacuum, hold it, then valves open and the work solution fills the cylinder. Then it is put under pressure, we hold the pressure for a time, then put it under short final vacuum to wring the excess out of it. For the most part, it's drawn into the cells of the wood through the end grain.

 

[besttec]

I already have the landscape timbers and also need to use some of them to replace deteriorated ones surrounding landscaping features. I am just interested in making them last as long as possible with as little extra expense as possible. I have about 50 of them and about half or more will be used to replace like posts that are rotted or otherwise deteriorated in the ground. The landscape application are all deteriorated as well. I was hoping to find a suitable "tray" or "tub" of sufficient length to completely treat the timbers in for both applications. The shower pan liner is an idea I came upon as I recently had a shower replaced and we used the PVC liner for it, but I am not sure it will hold up to the chemical reactions. If I have to buy a pre-cut one, I may have to glue sections together to get the length I need, and the bonding glue would then be suspect to fail. A pit in the ground would have worked 80-90 years ago, like when my deceased grandfather used to treat railroad ties he cut for the railroad before the depression. I am in SE Texas and we are having rain several times a week this year, and this is at our future retirement location away from my ability to monitor them if I need to let them soak more than a couple of days.

I appreciate everyone's ideas and look forward to any more shared, as well as being involved in the community moving forward. Hopefully, I will be able to share something the helps others too.

BTW, I have been very pleased so far with my Branson 4815 ch (now just over a year old). I bought with the FEL and Backhoe, and have used both enough to appreciate them. Otherwise, Pallet Forks are the most frequently used attachment so far, and most appreciated.

Blessings!!!

 

[NoTrespassing]

In that case, if it were me, I would make a frame out of wood as suggested before and line it with heavy duty plastic. Poor a bunch of creosote in it and let several of them soak at a time.

Set up a drying rack out of timbers and rotate them through. Again, I'd use pea gravel under and around the posts as back fill.

Sounds like a messy job though.

Kevin

 

[besttec]

Almost, you're missing one step.

We pull a vacuum, hold it, then valves open and the work solution fills the cylinder. Then it is put under pressure, we hold the pressure for a time, then put it under short final vacuum to wring the excess out of it. For the most part, it's drawn into the cells of the wood through the end grain.

Thanks for the response, and thanks to all. I don't suppose I will be creating a pressure treatment vessel at this point though... although I am interested in making these last longer than 3-5 years. I would like to get 20 years but doubt that will happen. I would be reasonably happy to get 10-15 years.

 

[tallyho8]

In the rainy Louisiana swamps I have seen several fences where people use old coffee cans to preserve the tops of the posts.

 

[hube2]

In that case, if it were me, I would make a frame out of wood as suggested before and line it with heavy duty plastic. Poor a bunch of creosote in it and let several of them soak at a time.

Set up a drying rack out of timbers and rotate them through. Again, I'd use pea gravel under and around the posts as back fill.

Sounds like a messy job though.

Kevin

Rather than plastic, I might look into using epdm pool liner or roofing. Not as economical as using plastic, but much less likely to spring a leak. You may be able to get a single sheet that is large enough so that you don't need to worry about sealing seams.

 

[newbury]

You've a backhoe, land, and posts.
Dig a ditch of suitable length, determine what you want for a durable liner and solution, lay it out, let them soak. Fold the liner over the ditch keeping it so the rain doesn't get in.
I'd make a 2 ft deep pond either with pool liner or billboard vinyl.

 

[Egon]

Bluestone will work well.