Anybody here have much experience with either 3 point or tow backhoe?

[m7040]

After I got the minix I have never used the backhoe mounted to the 3 point on the the old MF203. It is too slow and difficult to mount if not already mounted. Mounting only as a 3 point will require additional bracing like mine . In my case I used 3/4 inch threaded rods to connect the mounting plate of the backhoe to the frame of the front loader. it is very strong and in fact I broke the arm of the backhoe one time digging out some big rock. If it had not been braced it likely would have broken the cast iron mounting points on the rear transmission case

 

[5030]

I just rent one when I need one. Much less expensive overall.

 

[4570Man]

I used to have a subframe mounted Kubota BH 90. It was all I’d ever had at the time so I was happy. It beat a shovel and I used it to do a lot of work. It had a fixed thumb on it. It was better than nothing but pretty frustrating at times.
Then I sold the Kubota and bought a Deere 310. The Deere was a big step up in machine capability. But I quickly grew frustrated with its lack of versatility. No quick change bucket, no quick change rear bucket and no hydraulic thumb was a drag.
I sold that and bought a Kubota M59. I gained the versatility I wanted but I gave up more performance than I was happy with. The M59 loader was surprisingly strong but the backhoe was lacking. Overall I think the whole machine was lacking. It was a lot better than the BH90 but nowhere close to the commercial build of the 310.
Then I sold that and bought a KX040 mini x with quick change bucket, hydraulic thumb and cab. I’ve been very happy with that machine and still have it. It’s by far the best digging tool I’ve had.

 

[Jchonline]

They’re both virtually useless especially in challenging dirt and the 3 point hoes are prone to breaking tractors. They’re more scarce than they used to be but I would look for a small mini x. They make 12” buckets for the 580 though.

I agree. You are going to be sorely disappointed in a tractor backhoe after using a miniEX and a full size backhoe. I would go MiniEx unless you have multiple other use cases for a small tractor..especially since it sounds like these are commercial endeavors.

 

[rScotty]

The OP asked for opinions on small 3pt backhoes. For years we had only a small 3pt mount BH that was marketed for 20 hp tractors. No subframe at all. We used it on everything from our little 1250 pound 16hp Yanmar up to our Category 2 6000 lb JD.
It never hurt the tractor, but then I don't tend to break things.

It was - still is, my buddy has it now - a dandy and dangerous little hoe.
Damn dangerous because it tends to throw the tractor around. And deadly if you have draft control on the 3pt...it almost got me once that way when I was applying down pressure on the hoe bucket which activated the 3pt draft control. I bailed out sideways just as the BH control levers pinched me against the back of the tractor seat....BTW, that is a common way to get killed on the farm.
The hoe was small and handy in spite throwing the little Yanmar around almost too much to be useful. I imagine a tow behind to be worse. But on the big tractor with category II 3pt hitch and some bushing adapters it got useful work done.

I think you could easily break a little tractor with that BH, but not a big category 2 tractor. Of course some people can break anything. If you are that sort then for sure do not get a 3pt backhoe; you will break your tractor. OTOH, if you are one of those old mechanics whose outdated machinery seems to seems to just go on working forever, go for it.
rScotty

Look back at California's photo in message #12 on this thread. If that's not the very same hoe that we had it is sure close. They called it "frame mounted" because there were some arms on the hoe that clamped to the trator's 3pt arms but I'd call it a 3pt hoe. Had an independent PTO hydraulic pump & res.

 

[Carl_NH]

I agree with rscotty - if you take care and are careful the 3PT BH will do fine. I had the kubota L175 with 3PT Kubota BH and it would do a lot of work but was loose and a night/day difference vs the B21 TLB.

The B21 or for that matter the TLB or rigid frame mount BH will do better than a 3 PT BH. The OP might want to consider smaller TLB like the B21 or B26 for smaller jobs - they can be found for half the price of a mini ex, but agree there is no comparison to the mini ex for digging.

 

[rScotty]

I agree with rscotty - if you take care and are careful the 3PT BH will do fine. I had the kubota L175 with 3PT Kubota BH and it would do a lot of work but was loose and a night/day difference vs the B21 TLB.

The B21 or for that matter the TLB or rigid frame mount BH will do better than a 3 PT BH. The OP might want to consider smaller TLB like the B21 or B26 for smaller jobs - they can be found for half the price of a mini ex, but agree there is no comparison to the mini ex for digging.

You know...that just makes sense. Kubota has made a small but real TLB for decades now. The first B21s are now 20 years old and have a reputation for being tough. They aren't a mini excavator, but they are a real 4000 lb TLB that will dig, carry 1000 lbs in the FEL bucket, and has a road gear.

 

[Smokeydog]

Kubota TLB legacy began in 1989 with the B20. All models favored by landscapers, golf courses and cemeteries for versatility and turf kindness compared to skidsteers. Home Depot rents a B26 TLB $235/day to try.

Never seen a excavator dig a grave but maybe?Recent article about a much sought after local fellow making a living digging graves by hand because of the aesthetics and minimal ground damage.

It really surprised at the high cost of used ag tractor backhoes. Bought farm-grade 4500 Ford backhoe and an used backhoe, bucket and thumb for my M59 for less money.

 

[4570Man]

I agree. You are going to be sorely disappointed in a tractor backhoe after using a miniEX and a full size backhoe. I would go MiniEx unless you have multiple other use cases for a small tractor..especially since it sounds like these are commercial endeavors.

I use my machines commercially or at least semi commercial. I wasn’t under the impression the OP did.

 

[Vigo327]

I never looked into a B20/B21 before but it looks like a nice upgraded version of my B8200 w/bf300 loader and subframe-mounted 6.5ft backhoe. Power steering standard, a little stronger loader, and a little better integrated backhoe with slightly smaller footprint overall. Looks like I should keep my eye out for a cheap one i could buy to fix and sell mine for net profit.

Ive never used a large backhoe but ive used a mini-ex and its true there's no comparison. One of the biggest problems you run into with a small tractor backhoe is the <180 degree swing. It sounds fine until you're doing it, but it really slows you down because you often run out of places to put what youre digging up faster than you run out of reach or depth to dig more out. Repositioning during the dig is tedious as well. In some ways I think a towable machine might be preferable to a 3pt backhoe, but if i were to build one I'd have to build one with a pivoting main body that, even if it couldnt spin circles, could at least spin 250+ degrees to make dropping dirt out of the way easier and to reduce the need to reposition the machine as often.

 

[Greench]

I know someone who broke his off. Cost him 12 grand for the lesson. If it's not a subframe mount I'd steer clear of it.

All I can add is do not rotate the boom of a full cat on your leg twice because wasp would not let you turn it off in the cab and you jumped on the back like a friggin idiot. The first time hurts. The second time when you turn it the wrong way trying to make it let go hurts more. It cost blue cross 350K

 

[anchorhd]

I use a woods bh90x, with sub frame, on a nh t2310. Would need an excavator if I didnt have it.
Only issue is putting it back on sometimes.

 

[Smokeydog]

Can’t remember if it was some Kubota information or salesman saying the B20 was inspired by the proven Case 580 design. While the later B26 has many improvements over the B20 model it is not built as ruggedly built.

 

[panamaguy]

I already have a Case 580CK backhoe. It is pretty worn out but still digs. But it does the digging with a two foot wide bucket. According to the manual it will dig a ditch 14 feet deep. My big backhoe also goes places. It needs big places because it is big. But I have a need to dig narrow ditches that are about two feet deep in places where only a small machine will go.
I did make myself a 6 inch wide bucket that affixes to the dipper and will dig two feet deep. It works OK but there is still the limitation of the big backhoe. And I have already bent the thing. The bucket is welded to a piece of 2 x 2 1/4 wall square tubing and has a 2 x 1/4 piece of rectangular stock welded to back of the square tubing, like a spine, for reinforcement. I bent the square tube anyway. About 90 degrees. Because of all the rocks.
So I keep lusting after a small backhoe with a thumb. I keep seeing pictures of 3 point backhoes on tractors the approximate size as my Yanmar YM2310. And pictures of tow behind excavators.
My soil is glacial till. It is full of rocks of various sizes. A bucket with a thumb removes these rocks much easier than digging them out. I know because I rented a small, about 4 feet wide, tracked excavator that had a thumb. Pulling rocks up and out is way easier and faster than digging them out.
So, does anyone here have any experience with these small machines? I know they will be much slower than my Case and I can live with that. But can they do actual work in rocky soil without extreme frustration?
A tow behind would make for a pretty long machine assembly, but in most places I can live with that. But it seems to me that a tow behind might be trouble because it would be so light it would get tugged around. Unless being hitched to the tractor all the time. This would at least tend to hold it in place when digging a ditch in line with the long axis of the tractor.
A 3 point hitch type would be shorter, easier to transport, and have a little more stability side to side. Or would it? I mean the sideways stability. I think I saw methods of attaching 3 point backhoes that added sideways stability.
So, are these small machines worth looking at? I would love some opinions.
Thanks,
Eric

If you have enough work for it buy a mini hoe. I have a IHI 15NX and added a thumb as the pedal and lines are already run out to the stick. Yanmar 3 cyl and has been a great machine. I retired to Panama and out of boredom bought it and put in house foundations as they do not do basements also water and power lines. It will dig just about 6 feet so more than enough for anything I need to dig. Have even dug 3 swimming pools where they could not get a big hoe in and every bucket was dumped into wheelbarrows, 6 tired kids after that

 

[jeffie]

I have a jd 1025r with the quicktach backhoe. I use it in my landscape business to tear out shrubs, and plant large trees. As panamaguy said they will fit anywhere and is a perfect match for my needs. I just crossed 700 hours trouble free just routine maintenance.

 

[Little Red Tractor]

I priced a unit to attach to my new B series Kubota. About $6500. Rental for a small excavator is about $400 a day in our market, maybe a bit less. I did the math and will rent the excavator...and won't have to store it when it's not on the tractor.

 

[racardon]

I have a Massey Ferguson 1260, 39 HP tractor with front loader and 3 pt backhoe. Previous owner put a subframe on the tractor. Definitely won't compete with your Case 580, but it is way way better than a shovel and pick. I've used my backhoe in some pretty hard soil with a few large rocks. It took a while to break through the surface, but then did fine. I've also had several hours seat time on a couple of mini-excavators. They will definitely outrun a 3 pt backhoe in a trenching contest. But, I suspect a mini-excavator is going to be a lot more expensive than a 3pt backhoe even if you have to get the subframe.
A thumb would really make grabbing rocks easier. It's always a challenge chasing them around with a bucket. Thumb also makes it easy to place larger rocks where you want them.

 

[etpm]

After reading the many replies (Many Thanks!) I have decided to look for a backhoe with a thumb that I can attach to a sub frame. It looks like the tow behind diggers are just way too light for the ground I have here and 3 point units are too risky.
Looking at my tractor I can see how to attach a sub frame unit such that it will not put the kind of load on the tractor that causes breakage.
In the mean time I'll just rent a mini excavator with a thumb for the places it can be used. The thumb is a super time saver when dealing with the kind of rocks we have.
I'm pretty sure that once I start to seriously look for a small add on hoe I'll be able to find one at a price I can afford.
Thanks Again Everybody,
Eric

 

[4570Man]

I’ve seen some mini excavators in the 10k range. I think if you had one you’d be impressed and kick yourself for not doing it sooner. I have a Deere 410 and a 4.5 ton mini excavator. The Deere will out muscle the mini but for everything else the mini is way better.

 

[rScotty]

I priced a unit to attach to my new B series Kubota. About $6500. Rental for a small excavator is about $400 a day in our market, maybe a bit less. I did the math and will rent the excavator...and won't have to store it when it's not on the tractor.

I think that "doing the math" will lead to the conclusion that renting is cheaper than owning every time, for every implement, and for every job. That's simple enough, but clearly not right.

If it was, we wouldn't need to have compact tractors, do it yourselfers, tailgate parties, or TBN.

I always suspected that math was wrong; now I know why.
rScotty