Really, really dumb question about difference between off road and on road diesel fuel.

[Flogger]

I buy non-tax diesel with cash money. I use ATF as my fuel treatment because of the excellent lube and solvent properties. For 50¢ a gallon my summer fuel bill is much easier to digest. I also have some 75 year old diesel engines that have never had the fuel systems touched.

 

[Flogger]

Around the Kansas law enforcement training center the training regimen apparently includes sticking fuel tanks at farm auctions.

I once had a $5000 fine levied for a water truck one of my drivers picked up from a job site. Within 45 minutes of him unloading it in the yard DOT walked onto the lot and stuck the tanks. Needless to say it didn't go to court but an individual probably would have been out the fine.

 

[DarkBlack]

I once had a $5000 fine levied for a water truck one of my drivers picked up from a job site. Within 45 minutes of him unloading it in the yard DOT walked onto the lot and stuck the tanks.

“Unloaded”, like off a trailer?
It must have been registered to you, for driving on the road, otherwise they can’t fine you

 

[MoKelly]

Random check points are perfectly legal everywhere if public safety is the issue. The difference in price of the two fuels is road tax and greed on the retailer's part. Stay legal and get over it.

You cannot randomly stop cars and search for illegal weapons.

But, you can stop diesel vehicles and check for red dye?

Really?

 

[ruffdog]

You cannot randomly stop cars and search for illegal weapons.

But, you can stop diesel vehicles and check for red dye?

Really?

Use the public roads....follow the rules.

 

[Rockbadchild]

You cannot randomly stop cars and search for illegal weapons.

But, you can stop diesel vehicles and check for red dye?

Really?

For us in Canada we can refuse at the cost of $1000...lol.. it is different laws that apply, just like vehicle inspection they can do without cause.

''In many jurisdictions, law enforcement agencies have the authority to conduct inspections of vehicles, including checking the contents of fuel tanks, without specific cause. This authority is often granted under laws related to fuel taxation and compliance.''

 

[DarkBlack]

For us in Canada we can refuse at the cost of $1000...lol.. it is different laws that apply, just like vehicle inspection they can do without cause.

''In many jurisdictions, law enforcement agencies have the authority to conduct inspections of vehicles, including checking the contents of fuel tanks, without specific cause. This authority is often granted under laws related to fuel taxation and compliance.''

In the states, off road diesel is regulated by the IRS. It has nothing to do with spill hazard, or pollution. It’s 100% a matter of taxes, and it’s considered tax evasion to run it on the road. Cops voluntarily dipping people’s tanks are simply doing the IRS’s job for them. I guess those that do, don’t have enough real police work to do. Envision a local cop showing up to go over your yearly tax return, looking for tax evasion.

 

[Rockbadchild]

In the states, off road diesel is regulated by the IRS. It has nothing to do with spill hazard, or pollution. It’s 100% a matter of taxes, and it’s considered tax evasion to run it on the road. Cops voluntarily dipping people’s tanks are simply doing the IRS’s job for them. I guess those that do, don’t have enough real police work to do. Envision a local cop showing up to go over your yearly tax return, looking for tax evasion.

I know, same situation for us (IRS equivalent) but the government is giving them jurisdiction to do inspection on the matter and issue fines, again just like road side vehicles inspection they do it on the behalf of the ministry of transportation, this happens all the time, the cops assist or acting on the behalf of other government agencies as long as the law is written to give them jurisdiction then they can, I don't understand how difficult it is to understand whether or not you agree with it. Their boss is telling them to do blitz once a year or so, so they do and plus it's back up by law. You would be surprise on the extent of jurisdiction of cops, they can do stuff that even them don't know they can. One example for us in Canada they can even give fines on the behalf of the ministry of labor, they don't because they don't know the regulation but they could.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I use off road. I only know of one station near us offering it, and seemingly no way to find other stations offering it. I don't use enough to justify my own tank and deliveries of fuel. But I do like saving $.70/gal on what I do use. I do use diesel treatment in every gallon, but that is peanuts... A bottle treats like 400gal.
Anyway, is there any way to FIND stations that carry off road? I've called a few, and the people working have no clue, they only know they have a diesel pump.

 

[LouNY]

A couple of you guys mentioned using your home heating oil in your tractors. Just as everything else, a couple people told me it's the same stuff with dye; a couple people told me it's very different.
I do it to save some money, but especially for convienience. I put a pump on top of my home heating tank, and it saves a lot of lifting and filling jugs.
Is it the same fuel or not?

Yep, it is the same stuff. In this area it has been so for several years. When the ultra low sulfer became mandated for "highway" vehicles for just a couple of years home heating oil was allowed to have a slightly higher sulfur content , no longer.
Besides which the only adverse effect from the sulfur would be if you had a DOC or DPF if not it was actually better for the fuel injection pump.

 

[Flogger]

“Unloaded”, like off a trailer?
It must have been registered to you, for driving on the road, otherwise they can’t fine you

Hauled in on a semi and it was a tagged vehicle but he ran into a little problem by just walking onto the lot with no notification. I put the paste in stock and made all my delivery and service trucks keep it on hand across the state. The whole incident seemed like a setup. It was the only time in my 25 years with the company that they came on the lot and stuck a tank.

 

[dodge man]

In Illinois the road tax totals up to $0.70 per gallon. The fine for running it on the road if caught is $1000 fine the first time, the second time it’s a felony and $5000. I also saw the clause about having a sticker in a conspicuous place that says “dyed fuel, off road use only”. That’s how they got the guy I talked about earlier for not having a sticker on his transfer tank in his pickup.

One thing you have to realize is at the state level in Illinois motor fuel tax is one of the few taxes that actually gets used for its intended purpose. Instead of it going into a giant slush fund that can get misused it goes to local governments for road repairs.

 

[Hay Dude]

In Illinois the road tax totals up to $0.70 per gallon. The fine for running it on the road if caught is $1000 fine the first time, the second time it’s a felony and $5000. I also saw the clause about having a sticker in a conspicuous place that says “dyed fuel, off road use only”. That’s how they got the guy I talked about earlier for not having a sticker on his transfer tank in his pickup.

One thing you have to realize is at the state level in Illinois motor fuel tax is one of the few taxes that actually gets used for its intended purpose. Instead of it going into a giant slush fund that can get misused it goes to local governments for road repairs.

PA’s road tax is used to fund the PA State Police.

 

[bdhsfz6]

PA’s road tax is used to fund the PA State Police.

Tolls on the PA Turnpike also go to the State Police. Arguably, it's now the most expensive toll road in the US!

Most expensive toll roads in the US

If you travel a lot, it is quite likely that you end up passing through some toll booths along state highways. Therefore, it is important that you properly plan your route and figure out the toll costs for your trip.

www.linkedin.com

 

[Lastkidpicked]

Out here, they have proposed a big change and you're not going to like it.

The proposal is no more keeping off-road diesel separate. Instead, ALL diesel will be taxed at the higher rate up front and then you apply for reimbursement.

If you buy 500 gallons for your off road tractor, forklift, backhoe, or excavator, then you pay the higher tax and submit documentation to be refunded the tax you paid.

Now, those of you who enjoy numbers are already a step ahead of my post. You are thinking,

"If a farmer gets busy and forgets to submit reimbursement on the $500 fuel he bought, then the Govt wins. They keep the extra tax money. You add that up over lots of farmers, lots of excavators, and lots of diesel powered generators and you are talking about millions of dollars in extra tax revenue"

And you would be correct.

 

[Lastkidpicked]

This is part of the instructions for reimbursement for farm use or off road diesel. (You are the claimant on this paperwork)

Caution: Claimant has the name and address of the person who sold the fuel to the claimant and the dates of purchase. For claims on lines 1c and 2b (type of use 13 or 14), 3d, 4c, and 5, claimant has not waived the right to make the claim.For claims on lines 1c and 2b (type of use 13 or 14), claimant certifies that a certificate has not been provided to thecredit card issuer.

And just so you don't need to ask:

Yes, this would mean the Govt hiring more Govt employees to track this extra paperwork.

 

[MoKelly]

Use the public roads....follow the rules.

Like the Constitution of the United States. That pesky rule?

 

[mcmxi]

Man, what a beat-to-death topic.
Worry about things that might actually be worthy of worry.
No cop is gonna dip a pickup unless you’re known all over town for bragging about running red as OTR fuel.

Isn't that the truth. Up here in the great state of Montana, when a city cop or state trooper pulls you over for speeding and you tell them that you have a revolver on your hip, a machine gun and shotgun behind the seat, and a thousand rounds of ammo on board, they pet your dog, ask you what you do for living, tell you that they also have a Ruger or whatever, as well as an AR15, then tell you to slow down a bit and have a great day.

I've pulled trailers all over Montana and Wyoming, many thousands of miles, and have never been stopped, never been told to get on a scale, never had a load inspected, and never had my fuel checked. Heck, I drove this M1078 back from Seattle with no plates, no registration, no insurance, and red diesel in the 60 gallon tank (came off barge that way), all while pulling my Jeep behind on a custom tow bar. I passed many cops and was passed by many cops and none of them had the slightest bit of interest in me.

All of this fear-mongering is laughable.

Added in edit: Or maybe not.

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

I used to buy off highway diesel for the farm, but found that Costco prices are usually within 10-15 cents and sometimes even lower than the cost of off highway fuel. So, I just fill my transfer tank at Costco and then I can use it in whatever machine I want and not have to worry about getting checked, not that I do anyway. Unless your hauling commercially, I don't think anyone really cares that much.

I never see a Costco with diesel

 

[ning]

I never see a Costco with diesel

https://www.costco.com/gasoline-diesel.html