Flail Mower New to Me- Seppi SMO 200 Flail Mower

[Doug Vee]

New to me, definitely NOT new.

I have the mower on blocks in the shop. I was concerned about the ugly looking gear oil and not being able to drain it completely due to the drain not being at the low point of the housing. I removed the gear box and have it hanging at an angle that should allow it to drain completely...well, all that will run anyway. There will be a coating on everything that probably will not drain. I think I will let it hang for a while, then reinstall and fill it with new gear oil, then drain it after a short interval to flush out the remaining contaminates.

I started dismantling the rear roller bearing assemblies. It is not apart yet, but bolts are mostly loosened. It doesn't look like it will be very difficult to get the bearing supports removed. One bearing is completely. failed.

It looks like the left end of the rear roller has separated from the main body of the roller. I would like to remove it to try and address that, but that looks like it would be a tricky process. The roller support is lower than the bottom of the mower structure, which is what my blocking is under. The roller shaft is longer than the space between the two roller supports, so it looks like at least one roller support must be removed to completely remove the roller assembly. It appears that my roller is described as the "Prior Production" assembly in the manual, dated May of 2006. The roller and the inner shaft appear to be one part in the parts break down, so the shaft does not seem to be removable through the roller.

Does anyone have a feeling for whether it would be advisable to support the mower on the flail rotor with jack stands, at least one end? I am not sure how the fore and aft balance would be affected, but the front side would definitely get much lighter. If this would be safe to do (for me and the mower) it would make it much easier to remove a roller support.

Anyhow, I am sure I will be looking for more advice in the future. Thanks again,
Doug

 

[blitzen]

I'm definitely watching this as you bring the mower back into service! Can you tell me what hammers you have -SMW? also how long are the bolts that hold the hammers. Mine were welded on and I had to cut them to get them off. I am thinking around 3.5 to 4 inches hoping you can verify that. TIA for posting this project.

Dave

 

[Doug Vee]

I'm definitely watching this as you bring the mower back into service! Can you tell me what hammers you have -SMW? also how long are the bolts that hold the hammers. Mine were welded on and I had to cut them to get them off. I am thinking around 3.5 to 4 inches hoping you can verify that. TIA for posting this project.

Dave

Dave,

What remains of the existing hammers appear to be SMO/WM, part #13002001. The bolts are described as "Special Bolt", part #13002075, size M16x1.5x90 10.9 and the nut is described as- yes you guessed it, "Special Nut", part #30012076, size M16x1.5-10.9. I assume M16 is bolt diameter in mm, 1.5 is thread pitch in mm, and 10.9 is grade of bolt? Maybe someone can confirm that.

There is a hammer kit that is described as part #48020002, "Kit Hammer, SMO (hammer, nut, bolt)". Sounds like pretty much I would need, times 21. Sounds kind of expensive put that way.

The hammer bolt removal looks like it will be kind of a bear... though probably not as much of a pain as yours were.
I am not sure exactly when I will be out at the shop next, but I will measure the bolts and confirm with you when I do. Should be sometime later this afternoon, or tomorrow morning.

Doug

 

[Tinhack]

You need full and safe support to work on any mower. When I work on my flail mower, I have it attached to the tractor 3PH, raised to full height and have jack stands under the side panels. Tractor in 1st gear low range with parking brake set on both sides. (Brake pedals locked together--Hiway mode)

The roller most likely does not have a through shaft. Most have the shaft welded to the end caps then the caps are welded to the tube.

Here's my old Caldwell Barracuda flail. It uses the spoon flails at about $3.25 each. It leaves a manicured finish that's better than any of the rotary cutters I have including the Bad Boy ZTR. I like using it in the fields after the initial knock-down with the rotary.

 

[Tinhack]

M16x1.5x90 10.9 is pretty common. What's "special" about it and the nut? Have a photo?

Here's an equivalent SAE size.

 

[blitzen]

Dave,

What remains of the existing hammers appear to be SMO/WM, part #13002001. The bolts are described as "Special Bolt", part #13002075, size M16x1.5x90 10.9 and the nut is described as- yes you guessed it, "Special Nut", part #30012076, size M16x1.5-10.9. I assume M16 is bolt diameter in mm, 1.5 is thread pitch in mm, and 10.9 is grade of bolt? Maybe someone can confirm that.

There is a hammer kit that is described as part #48020002, "Kit Hammer, SMO (hammer, nut, bolt)". Sounds like pretty much I would need, times 21. Sounds kind of expensive put that way.

The hammer bolt removal looks like it will be kind of a bear... though probably not as much of a pain as yours were.
I am not sure exactly when I will be out at the shop next, but I will measure the bolts and confirm with you when I do. Should be sometime later this afternoon, or tomorrow morning.

Doug

Thanks Doug, my hammers are SMW(short neck) size not SMO(long neck) On the back of the hammers it is cast into them mine has the SMW casting. I have attached a screenshot for the nuts and bolts. The 90 is the length in mm in inches it is equal to 3.54330709 inches--not from Seppi just curious what you/people think.

 

[Doug Vee]

M16x1.5x90 10.9 is pretty common. What's "special" about it and the nut? Have a photo?

Here's an equivalent SAE size.

The bolts are around 3-1/2" long. I don't know what is special about them. The bolts are fine threaded and the nuts look like nylon locking nuts. Maybe that is what makes them special?

Doug

 

[Doug Vee]

Thanks Doug, my hammers are SMW(short neck) size not SMO(long neck) On the back of the hammers it is cast into them mine has the SMW casting. I have attached a screenshot for the nuts and bolts. The 90 is the length in mm in inches it is equal to 3.54330709 inches--not from Seppi just curious what you/people think.

blitz,

I have not looked on the back of the hammers yet. The fronts are so worn, I doubt that there is anything legible still on them, but possibly.

I did not know what the SMO/SMW nomenclature meant. I learned something new...always a good thing.

Concerning the bolt length, the heads are recessed into the tab part way, so that measurement is probably really accurate. I suppose a backing wrench is not needed to prevent the bolt from turning...now stopping the rotor from turning is the problem. One issue at a time.

Doug

 

[Doug Vee]

blitz,

I have not looked on the back of the hammers yet. The fronts are so worn, I doubt that there is anything legible still on them, but possibly.

I did not know what the SMO/SMW nomenclature meant. I learned something new...always a good thing.

Concerning the bolt length, the heads are recessed into the tab part way, so that measurement is probably really accurate. I suppose a backing wrench is not needed to prevent the bolt from turning...now stopping the rotor from turning is the problem. One issue at a time.

Doug

I was able to work on the mower some the past couple of days. I removed the rear hatch. The pivot/hinge bolts were almost complete wore through. One broke as I was turning it, the other I cut off because I did not have a 11mm Allen wrench. The hatch adjustment holes on the right side are a little jacked up. One of the holes will need a little welding action to get it reliable again. The bottom edge of the hatch is worn from riding directly on the roller because of the completely worn out bolts. Otherwise the hatch is in straight condition.

I removed the rear roller bearings. One was completely failed (for a long time), and since it was not addressed, it ruined the stub shaft on one end.

Also, the inner bearing support brackets were nonexistent. This allowed a little over an inch of sideways play, which may have been responsible for the, what looks like a separate end cap, to slide apart and become slightly cocked within the main body of the roller.

I will remove the roller and investigate further. I am thinking the end cap can be squared up and reseated, and maybe some small tack welds on the seam. As far as the ruined stub, I am thinking a local machine shop can remove and reweld a replacement stub on the end of the roller. I may price a replacement roller and bearing assembly and compare to see if repairing the roller would be competitive with new.

With the rear hatch off, it is much easier to see the hammers. While peering under there yesterday, I noticed one of the hammers had a missing nut. I pulled the bolt and was able to get a picture of the hammer.

I removed the gearbox so I could drain it easier. It has been draining for a couple of weeks now. Not sure if I will flush it or not. I am in no hurry to reinstall it so, I will jut let it do its thing..

Anyway, the fun continues. Comments are appreciated.

Doug

 

[blitzen]

Wow, you are getting after it! here are a couple photos of the SMW hammer. After market from Clean Cutter Tiller Blades. item name MAZ07. Here is a picture of the SMW hammer front and back.

 

[Doug Vee]

Wow, you are getting after it! here are a couple photos of the SMW hammer. After market from Clean Cutter Tiller Blades. item name MAZ07. Here is a picture of the SMW hammer front and back.

Ha! Your first sentence are the exact words my brother in law used.

Apparently the existing hammers on this machine are not original equipment.

I was able to remove the roller yesterday. The end cap with the good stub shaft that was askew in the last pictures came off without too much of an issue. The end with the bad stub shaft is another story. It appears is was rubbing so long on the end cap, that the joint between the stub shaft and the rest of the end cap is not whole. I tried tapping down on that stub to see if the end cap would come loose like the other end...no cigar, stub hub broke loose from the end cap.

There are no separate parts listed for the end caps/stub shafts, so I am assuming it will need a machine shop rebuild OR an entirely new complete roller. $$$$

The gearbox is apparently done draining. As noted earlier, there is no hurry to refill, but I have a question on the gear oil level...there is no level plug. I guess that is not too big of deal, a piece of wire could act as a dipstick. The question is- What should the oil level be? I have three other mowers with gear boxes, and it appears that the oil level on all three of them is "a little lower than the center of the gear set/output shaft". The bottom of the level plug is about 1" lower than the center on the 5' rotary cutter (New Holland), and maybe 1/2" lower on the 6' John Deere belly mower. I can't quite see good enough on the 6' Kubota front deck to know exactly, but it is around there.

Doug

 

[blitzen]

Ha! Your first sentence are the exact words my brother in law used.

Apparently the existing hammers on this machine are not original equipment.

I was able to remove the roller yesterday. The end cap with the good stub shaft that was askew in the last pictures came off without too much of an issue. The end with the bad stub shaft is another story. It appears is was rubbing so long on the end cap, that the joint between the stub shaft and the rest of the end cap is not whole. I tried tapping down on that stub to see if the end cap would come loose like the other end...no cigar, stub hub broke loose from the end cap.
View attachment 863729
View attachment 863731
There are no separate parts listed for the end caps/stub shafts, so I am assuming it will need a machine shop rebuild OR an entirely new complete roller. $$$$

The gearbox is apparently done draining. As noted earlier, there is no hurry to refill, but I have a question on the gear oil level...there is no level plug. I guess that is not too big of deal, a piece of wire could act as a dipstick. The question is- What should the oil level be? I have three other mowers with gear boxes, and it appears that the oil level on all three of them is "a little lower than the center of the gear set/output shaft". The bottom of the level plug is about 1" lower than the center on the 5' rotary cutter (New Holland), and maybe 1/2" lower on the 6' John Deere belly mower. I can't quite see good enough on the 6' Kubota front deck to know exactly, but it is around there.

Doug

I spoke to one of the guys at Seppi, they said that they don't have the old roller anymore and have a new design, they have incorporated to work with the older mowers. I am not clear on how to check the level of gear oil to make sure it is correctly filled. When I look into the gear box I am seeing a little better than half full and seems to work fine for me.

 

[Doug Vee]

I spoke to one of the guys at Seppi, they said that they don't have the old roller anymore and have a new design, they have incorporated to work with the older mowers. I am not clear on how to check the level of gear oil to make sure it is correctly filled. When I look into the gear box I am seeing a little better than half full and seems to work fine for me.

blitzen,

I did note that there are two roller assemblies listed in the manual. One is described as "prior production". Mine looks like the prior production part. The roller support brackets appear to be different between the two iterations of the roller. So, if I can't have the roller repaired, I guess I am stuck with an all new roller assembly, with brackets, bearings, etc.

Concerning oil level in the gearbox- "around half full" must be the level to shoot for.

Thanks again,
Doug

 

[blitzen]

Yup, on the roller assembly. Yup on the gearbox too.

You're welcome...

Dave

 

[Doug Vee]

Yesterday Pape got back to me with a parts order quote. Bad news about the roller. The bearing supports, and bearings are no longer available for use with the old roller (once repaired, if possible). The complete, current style replacement roller assembly would be $3K, shipped from Italy (half is the assembly, the other half is shipping).

I will contact a couple of shops next week to see what might be possible in regard to repair/rebuild of the existing roller. If that is possible (depending on cost), I will need to source some sort of bearing replacements, and the inner bearing supports, called a "labyrinth" on the parts breakdown.

Can anyone recommend a supplier that might be able to help with the above noted items? And possibly replacement hammers/bolts for this machine?

If the parts cannot be sourced, and the roller cannot be repaired, then I guess I would be over the proverbial barrel. I think the balance of the machine is worth a new roller, but obviously it would be my preference to not buy a new roller, but probably would if need be...

Thank you all,
Doug

 

[Doug Vee]

Just did a quick check on the "Lets Talk Flail Mowers" thread. Looks like Carrie at Flail Masters might be a person to check with. I also did a quick Google search on the roller bearing and had many hits to check into next week.

I would still appreciate any input one might have time to provide.

Doug

 

[Doug Vee]

This project is moving, albeit slowly.

I was able to have the roller rehabilitated. A prior owner had changed the bearing setup on it and now I know why. It was not feasible, at least for me, to go with all Seppi parts. The bearings are both grease-able Timken bearings in Timken pillow blocks. A local machine shop did the shaft repairs and re-welded the end caps to the pipe.

I was able to get all the worn out hammers off the rotor. Some I had to cut off, but many of the nuts threaded off. My shoulders and hands were sore for a couple of days after, but it is done. New hammers and bolts are ordered from Flail Master and should be here mid to late June.

My next project though, is removing the rod that the front deflector plates hang from. I want to change from the deflector plate system to deflector chains.

Some mounting holes for the rear hatch are waller-ed out, so I need to weld in and re-drill...might rent a mag drill for that. Also, one of the offsetting link arms of the hitch has a small crack. I will grind it out and re-weld it.

Doug

 

[Doug Vee]

I removed the deflector rod and all the shot deflector plates yesterday. I may buy a new 3/4" rod and weld the bolt tab to it. The current rod apparently started as an 18MM rod, is closer to 17.5MM now. I want to switch to deflector chain, but am wondering what size chain would fit on a 3/4" (pretty close to 18MM) rod. Obviously, the ID width of the link would need to be large enough to slide on the rod. Looking on line it appears that 1/2" chain has an ID large enough for that, but that size chain does not seem like what I see hanging on mowers in on line pictures. The optional Seppi chains don't appear to be 1/2" in the parts pictures. Suggestions/ideas would be appreciated.

Concerning rotor balance- with the rotor completely stripped, I notice that when I spin the rotor by hand, it always comes to rest in the same location. That seems to indicate an out of balance condition. I inserted one bolt/nut at a time opposite the "heavy" side until it stopped settling in the same place. It took 3 bolts/nuts to balance the rotor. I weighed the 3 assemblies and they total 1 pound-5.31 ounces. My question(s) is(are)- how close to perfectly balanced are rotors on other peoples machines and if not perfectly balanced, is the vibration significant or tolerable?

Thanks again for the input,
Doug

 

[blitzen]

Just wanted to chime in and say that last week I received my hammers and nuts & bolts for my Seppi, here is a picture of the drum. I am well pleased with how this mulches up the 6 foot plus weeds and woody stemmed bushes. Here is a picture of drum with attached hammers!! I will try to get some pics or video(if I can figure that out) of the mower in action.

 

[leonz]

Just wanted to chime in and say that last week I received my hammers and nuts & bolts for my Seppi, here is a picture of the drum. I am well pleased with how this mulches up the 6 foot plus weeds and woody stemmed bushes. Here is a picture of drum with attached hammers!! I will try to get some pics or video(if I can figure that out) of the mower in action.

Happy mowing blitzen, I look forward to drooling over my keyboard watching your mowing videos.


Leon