8N doesn't start

[Soundguy]

No data plate or tag.. it's a sn weakly hand stamped into the block.

Before i ran a thread chase downt he spark plug holes I'd simply try to hand thread in a new plug.. if it ain't great, then I'd consider the chase.. but keep in mind.. you actually don't want to remove metal. grease up the ID threads and grease the tap.. less is more when chasing spark plug threads..


soundguy

 

[GPintheMitten]

Well, your neighbor is lucky to have you guys to help him.

You have the hood off? That will make it a lot easier. The distributor is not difficult. It has been about 10 years so I'm going by memory. But you remove the coil (the big squarish looking cube) and then two nuts on either side, and then you replace the condensor and points. Gap the points according the specs Soundguy gave you. Look the cap and rotor over. Probably needs a new rotor. The rotor is simple it only goes in one way. These parts are not expensive.

Maybe Soundguy or someone can explain (and possibly have pictures for) positioning the tang on the distributor while setting the timing mechanically and at what position it should be when setting the gap. It is easiest to understand with the pictures in the manual.

I hope your neighbor is in a position to pay for the parts and manual. He's getting a great deal from you helping him here and it will pay off in having a good running tractor.

 

[tommu56]

Craig look on this thread http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/massey-ferguson-owning-operating/156177-20-electrical-short.htmlon post 10 the schematics should help you

Tom

 

[Soundguy]

Here's where the manual will be of benefit.. IE.. static timing a front mount. requires some measurement and a straight edge. no real easy way to explain it in text, vs looking at the pic in the manual. however.. a simple point replacement doesn't mean you can't slap it back in without dinking with the timing. if it was close before.. it should be close now.. the timing screw adjustment on a front mount really isn't very much.

.015 witht he rubbing block on the high part of the lobe.. add some grease tot he leading edge of the rubbing block to prevent block and cam wear.. there is a specific grease for this.. though a lil lithium grease will do in a pinch.. int he old days they gave you a capsule of grease for this int he points package.. but I havn't seen it in years. Synthetic rifle grease inthe lil grease cups you used to be able to get at milsurp stores also will work well.

Ont he front mount.. it is as gp said, remove the wire tot he coil, pop the bail, set coil off, snap 4 nipple crab cap off and then run 2 bolts out to remov ethe distrib.. when you repalce it, spin the rotor with your finger as you hand seat the distrib back tot he engine.. the unit is offset tang driven by the cam.. you can't really get it back in wrong unless it is wore slap oout AND you use a hammer... spin it till you feel it drop in.. then take the bolts down... sometimes the primary contact ont he bottom of the coil.. the lil pig tial one.. gets bent.. gently stretch it so it sets int he special cup shaped screw for the points.

soundguy

Well, your neighbor is lucky to have you guys to help him.

You have the hood off? That will make it a lot easier. The distributor is not difficult. It has been about 10 years so I'm going by memory. But you remove the coil (the big squarish looking cube) and then two nuts on either side, and then you replace the condensor and points. Gap the points according the specs Soundguy gave you. Look the cap and rotor over. Probably needs a new rotor. The rotor is simple it only goes in one way. These parts are not expensive.

Maybe Soundguy or someone can explain (and possibly have pictures for) positioning the tang on the distributor while setting the timing mechanically and at what position it should be when setting the gap. It is easiest to understand with the pictures in the manual.

I hope your neighbor is in a position to pay for the parts and manual. He's getting a great deal from you helping him here and it will pay off in having a good running tractor.

 

[CraigM]

Soundguy, does the grease keep the chips out of the cylinder, or just lubricate so that the tap doesn't cut too much? I did find the model and S/N. Knowing where to look helped as the characters are just about completely painted into invisibility. I could make out 8N, but nothing more. Could barely tell that there were other numbers there.

GP, don't have the hood off just yet. Junior unbolted it all, but we still have to remove the 3 switches that are sort of painted on to the right side of the hood. Owner says that they are not original, but they are still there 'holding' the hood. Once it's off and we have the plug situation under control, we'll consider the distributor. From what you and Soundguy say, it doesn't sound all that bad..famous last words. It's all going to have to wait until it warms up, which sounds like it may be a week. We didn't even make it to 10 degrees today.

Tom, Thanks for the schematics. That will help when we start messing with those extra switches. Owner says that they don't do anything, but I can see wires going to them. Maybe we can figure out what they do and clean it all up and get his lights to work again.

 

[GPintheMitten]

Ok, sounds like your feeling better about the whole project as well.

It's brutal cold here too. 4 degrees F right now. I think the high today was 7.
Too cold for that kind of work even in a garage.

Although I did change my starter on my 2N about 15 years ago in a snow storm about halfway down a 1200 foot driveway.

Stay warm if you can.

 

[Soundguy]

yes.. keeps chips to a minimum.. besides.. if only chasing.. hopefully not many chips.. that's why i said to run a good plug in there first.. may just be damaged threads on an old plug ( keep fingers crossed ).

soundguy

Soundguy, does the grease keep the chips out of the cylinder, or just lubricate so that the tap doesn't cut too much? I did find the model and S/N. Knowing where to look helped as the characters are just about completely painted into invisibility. I could make out 8N, but nothing more. Could barely tell that there were other numbers there.

 

[DJ54]

Not that it's better than a tap, but years ago one of the old fellows in our club showed me to take a used plug, knock the porcelin, and tip out of it. Take a hacksaw, and make two cuts in an X across the bottom, up through the threads making your own tap. Clean it up well to get any cuttings from it. Just watch not to cut the starting part of the thread. Or get cross threaded, getting started.

He was a mechanic that worked on pumping engines in the oil patch.., and worked with what he had...

I've done this more than several times to clean plug threads.., and works well..!!

 

[Soundguy]

It's a pretty common trick to make 'cheap' thread chases using a hard bolt of the correct size with a relief groove cut in it to catch the chips. I think I'd go with something harder than the oem spark plugs though.. the idea is you want to reform the threads in the head without galling moreso than cut them. ..at least not cut more than you have to anyway.. In some cases I've seen people crank down a set of antifoul adapters using some loctight sleave retainer on them, thus making new threads for a plug... In practise, with a soft cast or aluminum head.. just about anything should work fine.. even the old spark plug idea.. just start with one with good threads.. etc.

soundguy

 

[Eagleview]

It is possible to have good spark but not at the correct time , the timing may have slipped . The valve timing could also be out . I am not familiar with this engine but it is possible for gears to slip on the cam , chains to jump and tangs to shear off . I would take off the tappet cover and make sure number 1 cyl rockers are loose and number 4 cyl rockers are on the rock when the crank pointer says TDC . Then check the dissy as to where the rotor is pointing , this will confirm valve and ignition timing is correct as at TDC compression stroke number 1 .