a tractor can break in half?

[treesmiths]

I went to my local Massey dealer yesterday to see what they offered in the 25 to 30 hp range and he showed me a slightly used (223 hours) 33hp that they were putting back together and could make me a deal on. The engine and transmission serve as the frame on this model and the engine block broke in half, and the engine was bieng replaced! YIKES!

Is it just the Massey product or do most small tractors stand a chance of breaking in half? This is inconcievable to me. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Why no frame?

The dealer went on to say that the prior owner had put a backhoe on it and had abused the machine by dropping the front end loader down for stability while operating the backhoe. Sounds like something I might do. Shouldn't any tractor be able to withstand its own hydraulic pressures and stresses?

I stopped by the Kubota dealer and picked up a brochure on the new L3400 priced at 15995.00 and I've also been impressed with the Cub Cadet 26 hp at 13500.00 but I never see Cubs in rental fleets. I wonder if they break in half? Any suggestions? Thanks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Egon]

There are many tractors that have been built without a frame going back years and years. Never heard of one breaking but then my knowledge is very limited.

Egon

 

[BB_TX]

You occasionally hear of a tractor breaking in half and seems it almost always involves the use of a backhoe. Frameless tractors is probably the most prevalent design for many years.

 

[SteveM]

Yeah most tractors do not have a 'frame' because the integral drivetrain is the frame. While I would not suggest buying this particular Cub (nothing abused should be purchased in my opinion) there is no reason to avoid the Cub - they are made largely by Mitsubishi, and there is a worldwide respect for their tractors. Loaders and backhoes can be improperly used and can place unbelievable stress on the tractor...just watch a commercial backhoe working fast, and you see the thing bouncing and stressing...yikes.

I heard of a guy in my area who broke a BX22 basically in half trying to use his backhoe as a battering ram or something. Actually tried to make a warranty claim /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anything can be broken. Way back in my past I remember seeing an old kubota L225 split at the tranny seal when it was being used to ballast a bunch of steel beams being lifted by an excavator. oops. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Woodbeef]

That is what is called structural construction. You'll find more tractors built that way then with some type of frame.

I've seen a few tractors split before. All had loaders. Some were from bolts loosening up,some from having too big of loaders installed,others from outright abuse.

 

[spencer200]

This happens it is usually from abuse. We usually see one a year that has split in two piece normally at the bell housing. I have seen this happen with all brands so it is not something happens to just one.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue">The dealer went on to say that the prior owner had put a backhoe on it and had abused the machine by dropping the front end loader down for stability while operating the backhoe. Sounds like something I might do. </font>

Sounds like something we all do!

I always put my loader bucket on the ground when using the backhoe. Normally with the teeth of the tooth bar sticking into the ground so I am sure the tractor stays where I put it.

There have been threads in the past about possible broken tractors caused by 3PH backhoes, and at least one report of a a broken tractor in addition to yours.

I think the consensus here is that a subframe is preferable, but that in most cases a 3ph hoe that is properly designed can also work well if the tractor is designed for use with a hoe.

Personally, if a backhoe were in my future that tractor would not be. Especially if it happened like the dealer is reporting.

 

[jimg]

"but I never see Cubs in rental fleets."
Heres a data point. The state of NH bought a small fleet of Cubs for road side mowing. If you're really interested in the Cub and how they held up I could make some calls and get back to you. jimg

 

[Youare]

My brother worked for a New Holland dealership for a number of years. He has told me of CUT's and some larger tractors breaking apart as you describe. Seems like 90% of the time a backhoe is installed on these tractors. That is not to say the backhoe broke the tractor, the operator broke the tractor.

One particular tractor broke twice when the operator drove over rough ground too fast too long. There is a lot of weight hanging off the back of a tractor with a BH attachment. I would venture to say those who put weight boxes on the 3PH to counter balance a loader can stress the "frame" of a tractor driving too fast over bumpy ground.

My brother told me if I want to put a BH on my tractor to look for one with a full sub frame that is designed to take the stress off the main frame. Don't go larger than the manufacturer recommends.

You can break anything if you try. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Randy

 

[virgil]

yes they can and will break in half. Some times it is a result of abuse. The several that I have seen (they were all from the big 3) were caused by a light duty loader. That is to say, a less expensive, light duty loader mounting system is not desighned to do heavy work. there is a lot of stresses involved with FELs. You could compare this to pickup trucks... there are the little bitty ones, the full size 1/2 ton, 3/4, 1 ton and up and up and up. You would not expect the short bed sporty 1/2 ton to do the same work that a full size 1 ton. Same with loaders. Most FELs are capable of picking up way too much weight for the tractor and OPERATOR to handle safely. Front End Loaders are front end loaders, not bull dozers or track loaders. There is a big differance between getting rid of horse poop, or spreading a load of base material for your road and DIGGING a stock tank.
The break out force that is advertised on FELs is onle part of your consideration. How strong is the mounting system? What kind of use are you going to put it to? A lighter loader costs less. and will do less.
The FELs that go with the tractors I sell are mounted front, center, and all the way to the rear end... It is MASSIVE and it cost more, and they can do more without damaging the tractor.
Choosing the right machine for your needs can be very frustrating. There are a lot of very helpful folks on this forum. Find you a dealer who will set down and talk to you... Buy from him (her), and it will save you money in the long run.
I hope I have helped.

 

[virgil]

youare is right... you can break anything if you try.

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue">This happens it is usually from abuse. We usually see one a year that has split in two piece normally at the bell housing. I have seen this happen with all brands so it is not something happens to just one.
</font>

spencer200,

Reports of tractors broken in half have been pretty elusive here at TBN, as far as I can remember. I do remember a couple, but very little specific information.

Can you tell us a little more of your experience with them? I have a real interest in the subject, as the owner of a Kubota B2910 with a Kubota 3PH backhoe on it.

Maybe you can give me the reason I need to upgrade to a L3430 with the BH90 subframe hoe on it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

What Brands/models of CUTs have you seen broken in half? Was this caused by backhoe use, or some other reason, like falling off a truck or loading dock? Are these “frameless” tractors you are referring to, or tractors with frames as well? Even better, any pictures?

Nothing would be better than pictures of several different broken tractors to show the wife, as proof of my need to get that “more reliable” L3430! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One per year at one dealership [town, locality, whatever] is an amazingly high frequency in my mind. I for one would like to hear more specifics!

By the way, it would take more than broken tractor pictures to cause a new tractor to appear in our driveway... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue"> yes they can and will break in half. Some times it is a result of abuse. The several that I have seen (they were all from the big 3) were caused by a light duty loader. That is to say, a less expensive, light duty loader mounting system is not desighned to do heavy work. </font>

Virgil,

Yours is the first report that I have heard (or at least that I remember... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) of a loader being the cause of a broken tractor. And loaders are much more common on CUTs than backhoes from what I can see.

Were these aftermarket loaders added to tractors, or loaders that came were provided by the manufacturer of the tractors?

I have given thought to possible damage to the my tractor from the 3PH hoe, but have concluded that if I use it in a reasonable manner that it should perform well, since it was designed and provided by Kubota, along with the tractor.

I may be the last to realize it, but I never even considered that I might damage my tractor using the loader! I always figured that if I tried to do too much, the loader would not be able to, and that would be the end of it. Now I would not try to pick up something heavy with a chain on one end of the loader...but I might catch a tooth of the tooth bar under a rock or something at the end of the bucket. Still, I expect I would notice this and not expect such a thing to break the tractor...since my loader was designed by Kubota for this tractor.

Like to hear more details if you have time...

 

[Soundguy]

Like the others said... Many many tractors use the engine/tranny/diffy castings AS the frame.. That said... I've only seen a tractor break in half at the engin to tranny castings, and these were due to backhoe instalations that didn't use a sub frame. I soppose the engine block could break in half.. but I've never seen it.. anythings possible I guess.

Soundguy

 

[Harv]

It happened to me a few years ago. Made the repairs myself.

See attachment.

 

[OkeeDon]

Harv, I'm curious about the motive power in your tractor. Does she pedal really hard, or is she just half fast?

 

[treesmiths]

I think I'd like to take you up on that offer. Might help me get off this dang fence and buy something. Thanks!

 

[higgy]

Egon have a look at this, it does happen, just not often.

This picture came from a thread earlier or from a tractor safety site.

I did not see it. I have a better one at home that I will send where it broke while backhoeing.

Dane

 

[markie61]

Another backhoe story: When I was shopping last year, I found a good deal ($20000) on a TC45D/17LA/SS/500hrs with a Woods backhoe from a Deere dealer who took it in on trade for a 110. Being suspicious (if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is), I got the s/n and called a NH dealer who looked it up on their service system. Turns out, the backhoe cracked the transmission housing to the tune of a $4000 repair. I called the original owner who said it cracked while he was using it. He also said that the original frame wasn't designed properly and they added a newer frame to keep it from happening again. He seems flummoxed that he couldn't do with it what he pleased. He stated that he pushed it hard, or words to that effect.

Everything felt "hinky" so I walked (actually ran) away from it. Bottom line: they CAN break, but seldom do. The main structure is the engine/trans/driveline - other components are just bolted on to subframes. They common element in most stories I heard have been backhoes.

Mark

 

[jimg]

OK, standby then...Ill post my findings here.