An Old Goat Ranch in Texas

[looknlearn]

Great thread, terry.dinerman.:thumbsup: I just decided to look at it today and then read thought the whole thread. The way you write is very entertaining and it cracked me up at many times. Keep at it and take care as you ship out.

 

[terry.dinerman]

Great thread, terry.dinerman.:thumbsup: I just decided to look at it today and then read thought the whole thread. The way you write is very entertaining and it cracked me up at many times. Keep at it and take care as you ship out.

Thank you Tucker! I will be careful....:thumbsup:

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Terry, keep on posting bro'. Every now and then (mostly now) I detect your NY accent in your writing. In fact, I now read it too myself in NY dialect but not sure on the accent. You know I haven't been there but am old enough to know how much it varies just crossing a bridge.

Hope you have a safe and relatively uneventful work trip.

 

[terry.dinerman]

Terry, keep on posting bro'. Every now and then (mostly now) I detect your NY accent in your writing. In fact, I now read it too myself in NY dialect but not sure on the accent. You know I haven't been there but am old enough to know how much it varies just crossing a bridge.

Hope you have a safe and relatively uneventful work trip.

Thanks for reading Kyle....you are not the first person to tell me my accent is so thick it comes thru in print...:laughing:

...even with the dilution of 30 years in Texas, if you want to hear me go 100% Noo Yawk on ya, take a ride with me in heavy traffic in Houston...

Precious Bride says I sound somewhere in between Andrew Dice Clay and Danny DeVito, and just a hint of Phil Gramm...

(I didn't know Phil Gramm swore that much....)

I will definitely be careful...I have THINGS to do when I get home...

BE SAFE!

Terry

 

[dcyrilc]

Happy Thanksgiving to you and BP, Terry. When do you actually ship out?

 

[terry.dinerman]

Happy Thanksgiving to you and BP, Terry. When do you actually ship out?

Thanks, My Brother! The same to you and yours.

I have been on the ship since the 17th....

As we have in the past, the family will just have to put an another feast when I get home...til then, have some buttermilk pie with a blob of Homemade Vanilla for me...:licking:

T

 

[scoutcub]

I have been on the ship since the 17th....



T

Keep an eye on the horizon, I also arrived in country on the 17th......but I'm 6/6.....so I think you'll be enjoying the next holiday with PB!
Hope you had a better meal than me.....I asked for a ham/egg/onion sandwich for lunch, got a tomato/onion/egg/cheese sandwich.......

Worst thing is, I said "not bad" after trying it out......

Frank

 

[terry.dinerman]

Keep an eye on the horizon, I also arrived in country on the 17th......but I'm 6/6.....so I think you'll be enjoying the next holiday with PB!
Hope you had a better meal than me.....I asked for a ham/egg/onion sandwich for lunch, got a tomato/onion/egg/cheese sandwich.......

Worst thing is, I said "not bad" after trying it out......

Frank

"...not bad..."???!!!! That's GOURMET, Fellah...!

During a particularly crummy week during a crummy job in a crummy town, my group had to live on a Conex full of kosher "Humanitarian Daily Rations"...the yellow ones designed to be dropped from 10,000 feet without benefit of a parachute ...they looked like cluster bomb sub-munitions and had to be recalled to keep folks from picking up the wrong yellow thingies....

But they were good enough to feed to us...

I got a box from 2001...I am here to tell ya guy can only go so far on potatoes, lentils, beans and rice, to be eaten on pieces of drywall they called "flatbread" slathered with some sort of "strawberry jam"-like substance that smelled a lot like cosmoline, peanut butter solidified into a nut-scented tarball all gently aged in the sun for 5 years in plastic bags within a plastic bag in a steel box...

FEH...

It's things like that that make you appreciate a nice Waffle House...

Yep...this is the first time in 5 years I will spend Xmas and New Year at home with family!

The Dafter plans to roast a leg of lamb and make a bunch of sides, so I don't have to cook...but if I don't bake a bunch of my buttermilk pies and some yeast bread, Precious Bride will make me eat at McDonalds ....

Like Marcel Johnson used to say...."NOBODY don't like PIE..."

As always, I will hoist a glass to ALL my "Afwesig Vriende" (absent friends), and this year, you too shall be held in that number.

Stay sharp...you only have 5 weeks left...

T

 

[mojoinco]

Ha-ha!
Hey, how long afore you pronounced Houston the correct way?
Wife (North NJ) told me about a friend that went to NYC recently and asked for Houston Street. Apparently it took a bit to realize that it is so properly pronounced 'House-ton' there.

I got a kick out of it.

Especially when a local town here is so inundated with Texan's that Buena Vista is pronounced 'Buna Vista' by a lot of the residents.

 

[terry.dinerman]

Ha-ha!
Hey, how long afore you pronounced Houston the correct way?
Wife (North NJ) told me about a friend that went to NYC recently and asked for Houston Street. Apparently it took a bit to realize that it is so properly pronounced 'House-ton' there.

I got a kick out of it.

Especially when a local town here is so inundated with Texan's that Buena Vista is pronounced 'Buna Vista' by a lot of the residents.

...twern't nuthin but a thang, Bubba...

I fell in with a good bunch from the start...I found out quickly that the merciless picking about my accent and all things Yankee, was in fact, a show of their affection for me...so I just returned fire...

...and the REST, as they say, is HISTORY...

PB says I belonged here...my parents hadn't got around to immigrating yet, so I took up for them...

I am now at that point where all the hard feelings from the "Great Yankee Migration" have long ago worn off, and I automatically reply: "Texas" when asked where I am from....I DO know how to properly pronounce "Houston" ("Eee-YOO'-ston"), I know that it takes smoke to barbecue and fire to grill, I can conduct myself honorably at a proper dance-hall (Gruene, Texas), a Dallas game, a Wafffle House, hunting lease and any number of flavors of houses of worship, I know how to properly wave at people as you pass them on "FM" roads (The "Full House", the "Index Finger 12 O'Clock Steering Wheel Salute" and the "Chin Lift"), I learned to take the husk OFF the tamale, I had several people in tears when I read "Travis' Letter" aloud to my Native Born Precious Bride and our 10 and 8 year-olds at the Alamo, and I can tell you EXACTLY how deep the San Antonio River is under the bridge at the corner of Commerce and Lo Soya....

But I still look as natural as a chicken in socks when I try to wear a Stetson....

Some things just AIN'T gonna happen, Pal...

Be Safe!

T

 

[terry.dinerman]

The "Commissariat of Power" line crews have been spotted at TOGR! :cool2:
Just as "Joe the Inspector" promised, they swarmed the place and apparently knocked it out in one day.

None of my usual co-conspirators have had the nerve to throw the main breaker yet, so it looks like the honor will be mine....

I have some Christmas lights to decorate the meter pole for the deer...

This is a BIG step in the Master Plan....the only other development issue that requires any form of inspection out there in the unincorporated areas of my county is the septic system...

So - I am putting together my materials list for the next leg...a 300' run to the barn and a sub-panel...

One project done, another begun....I believe I will have me a cee-gar...

 

[jinman]

Major congrats!:thumbsup: Power, waterwell, and septic are the "comfort trinity" that make all the difference.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm really enjoying your progress and challenges. It's been a fun ride to follow along.

Thanks for a great thread,
Eddie

 

[terry.dinerman]

I'm really enjoying your progress and challenges. It's been a fun ride to follow along.

Thanks for a great thread,
Eddie

Thanks, Bub!

And don't forget YOU started it....

A funny thing....I was re-reading your water-main advice the other day while I was working up a sketch and materials bill for TOGR....and wondering.... how are things going up in Tyler?

BE SAFE...

T

 

[terry.dinerman]

CALLING ALL ELECTRICIANS ... !

While working up my materials list for a barn power feeder, I have run into a speed-bump in the form of dueling wire size calculators ...

The specifics of the job are, I intend a 60 amp 240VAC single phase service from main disconnect panel adjacent to my transformer with a 300 run of 3 THHN copper conductors in buried conduit to the barn sub-panel, where a #4 copper ground to a ground rod to provide the discrete ground required by a sub-panel service.

The loads anticipated are a steady state of 4,000 watts if the AC in the office, the freezers, small appliances, all the lights in the place are on and every receptacle has an appliance plugged in and running at one time, and an additional surge of 2,400 watts if I crank up my wire feed welder....

The first calculator inputs 1/2 of the run in its calculation and gives #4 copper wires as a result, the second asks for 100% of the length of the run and returns #2 ....

#1 Wire Size Calculator

#2 Wire Size Calculator

So ... which calculator is correct in this situation?

In addition, in consideration of the high cost of wire I would like to compare the cost of aluminum vs copper for this application.

Another question regarding the service....Would it be better to :

• Run the conductors for the barn sub-panel directly off the busses in the main panel and let them be protected by the 200amp main breaker (this is a feed-thru type breaker panel) and install a 60 amp main breaker at the barn sub-panel...

OR

• Run the feed to the barn off a 60 amp breaker in the main panel and use a load center at the barn....

As usual, all opinions, advice and anecdotes are welcomed ...

 

[bdeboer]

CALLING ALL ELECTRICIANS ... !

While working up my materials list for a barn power feeder, I have run into a speed-bump in the form of dueling wire size calculators ...

The specifics of the job are, I intend a 60 amp 240VAC single phase service from main disconnect panel adjacent to my transformer with a 300 run of 3 THHN copper conductors in buried conduit to the barn sub-panel, where a #4 copper ground to a ground rod to provide the discrete ground required by a sub-panel service.

The loads anticipated are a steady state of 4,000 watts if the AC in the office, the freezers, small appliances, all the lights in the place are on and every receptacle has an appliance plugged in and running at one time, and an additional surge of 2,400 watts if I crank up my wire feed welder....

The first calculator inputs 1/2 of the run in its calculation and gives #4 copper wires as a result, the second asks for 100% of the length of the run and returns #2 ....

#1 Wire Size Calculator

#2 Wire Size Calculator

So ... which calculator is correct in this situation?

In addition, in consideration of the high cost of wire I would like to compare the cost of aluminum vs copper for this application.

Another question regarding the service....Would it be better to :

• Run the conductors for the barn sub-panel directly off the busses in the main panel and let them be protected by the 200amp main breaker (this is a feed-thru type breaker panel) and install a 60 amp main breaker at the barn sub-panel...

OR

• Run the feed to the barn off a 60 amp breaker in the main panel and use a load center at the barn....

As usual, all opinions, advice and anecdotes are welcomed ...

The second method of running from a 60 amp breaker is the correct way, or you have to size the wire for the 200 amp breaker. There are exceptions to this if the conductors are under 10 feet etc.

Have you considered going to a 100 amp panel? When you start adding a microwave etc.

 

[CurlyDave]

I don't think you will be allowed to run these wires directly from the busses in the main panel. You must use a 60 Amp breaker in the main panel for them.

If you use a 60 Amp breaker in the main panel, this ampacity chart Ampacity Charts shows you will need 6 ga copper wire if it is THHN.

If you are willing to drop down to a 50 Amp breaker 8 ga wire is OK.

Your ground wire can be on size smaller than the current carrying wires, i.e. 10 ga if you use 8 ga main wires, or 8 ga if you use 6 ga main wires.

I would really recommend using 240 volt service (3-wires). With 8 ga wires and a 50 Amp double breaker at the main panel, you can have the capacity for 12000 watts in the barn.

 

[bdeboer]

CALLING ALL ELECTRICIANS ... !


The first calculator inputs 1/2 of the run in its calculation and gives #4 copper wires as a result, the second asks for 100% of the length of the run and returns #2 ....

#1 Wire Size Calculator

#2 Wire Size Calculator

So ... which calculator is correct in this situation?


As usual, all opinions, advice and anecdotes are welcomed ...

Are you planning using direct burial, or are you going PVC with individual conductors? Using #4 copper the voltage drop would be about 4.9% vs. 3.1% for the #2.

Voltage Drop Calculator

 

[terry.dinerman]

The second method of running from a 60 amp breaker is the correct way, or you have to size the wire for the 200 amp breaker. There are exceptions to this if the conductors are under 10 feet etc.

Have you considered going to a 100 amp panel? When you start adding a microwave etc.

I had a feeling the "breaker at the panel" was going to be the correct method...keeps you from having a nuclear meltdown should the feeders get hung-up by some dummy on a tractor.......but it's always nice to get independent verification...

As far as "upgrading" top 100 amps....I really don't think the anticipated loads and surge would warrant more than 60 amps...the cost of copper wire is scaring me at 60 amps...I was dumbstruck at the price of the high voltage conductors and the transformer...and that was at the Commissariat of Power's prices.....the labor was actually pretty reasonable...

Anyway, thanks for the input, Brother....I like to do my learning before I put the shovel in the dirt and your advice will definitely go into the decision-making...:thumbsup:

BE SAFE!

 

[terry.dinerman]

I don't think you will be allowed to run these wires directly from the busses in the main panel. You must use a 60 Amp breaker in the main panel for them.

If you use a 60 Amp breaker in the main panel, this ampacity chart Ampacity Charts shows you will need 6 ga copper wire if it is THHN.

If you are willing to drop down to a 50 Amp breaker 8 ga wire is OK.

Your ground wire can be on size smaller than the current carrying wires, i.e. 10 ga if you use 8 ga main wires, or 8 ga if you use 6 ga main wires.

I would really recommend using 240 volt service (3-wires). With 8 ga wires and a 50 Amp double breaker at the main panel, you can have the capacity for 12000 watts in the barn.

OMG - ANOTHER chart / calculator....:confused2:

You know the old saying...."A man with one watch knows what time it is....a man with two watches is never sure..."

I AM going for 240VAC via three conductors, buried in conduit...

I rather hope your chart is right....your conductors seem a bit small according to the other "calculators"....

My math skills are right up there with my abilities at diplomacy, so I am hoping somebody can help me navigate the Code and make some sense of all this...

Thanks for the link...I will study this some-more and get back to you...!

BE SAFE!