Bobcat CT120 vs Deere 2305

[ByTheLake]

Having almost no previous tractor experience. Taking a 30-60 minute test drive could I really feel or see the advantage of one vs the other?

Bobcat dealer has large dirt pile and great area behind their buildings to test machine out. They are tuned in and encourage customers to test equipment out.
Deere dealer only has parking lot and very small lawn to test drive on.

BTW posted the Bobcat specs.

This is a difficult decision. Thanks to all for your input.

 

[shot_gun]

Even if they don't let you dig you can still see how much room you have in the operator station. How does the hydro feel smooth, notchy, turning radius, can you reach the loader lever ok with out reaching for it? How does the 3pt hitch work? Loader speed of operation. Take the loader on and off. How easy is it? Put it in high range rev the throttle and take off and see how the engine handles the load. Does it bog? Can you reach all the controls easily. Chech to make sure the dealer has all common service items in stock. If you needed a part whats the time line to get a part. Dealer reputation. The machine will only as good as the CO/dealer behind it. It will not be an easy decision but a test drive will atleast give you a direction. Yuo will get all kinds of opinions on the board but you are the one that has to use the machine. That is why I think seat time is the best. A good salesman for any brand will recognize that. Hope that helps alittle.

 

[lorus1966]

Not to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but have you considered adding a Yanmar/Cub Cadet SC2400 to the comparison?

I compared it to the 2305 and chose the Yanmar. Why? Because it's made by Yanmar (the same folks that used to make the JDs before they outsourced to who-knows-where). The only part of this thing that appears to be made by CC is the MMM, which is actually quite impressive in both quality and performance.

I've got only about 25 hours on the tractor so far, but am very impressed with its ability and the way it's put together overall. Actually, the only complaint I have so far is the lack of a toolbox.

I paid about $13,500 for the tractor, 60" MMM, and FEL.

 

[Smokin Diesel]

New guy here. When I first started researching CUTs I was looking pretty heavily at the 2305. Three things that I couldn't get past though were the lack of hydraulic cooling (and the resulting reports of overheating hydraulics), low flow capacity hydraulics (slow loader), and the limited cat-1 hitch. It looks like the Bobcat you're looking at covers all of those and adds other nice things to have like a foldable rops and 3-point position control.

You're really looking at two different classes of tractor here (sub-compact vs. compact). The smaller Deere would probably be better for mowing, but the specs of the Bobcat indicate that it would have an easier time with any loader or 3-point work. Figure out what your primary use for the tractor will be and that should focus your decision pretty quickly.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

I get tired of people thinking HP makes a tractor. Comparing sub compacts to compacts is like comparing a riding lawn mower to the sub compact. You can put 50 HP to a go cart, but a tractor it doesn't make.

 

[PAB_OH]

I looked at JD and to be honest I have always wanted one. Growing up it's all I ever saw in the fields around here. I can't afford JD. Similar machines from the what some would call the second tier OEM's are THOUSANDS less. If all the money is going overseas anyway, I have no problem buying a tractor with a foreign name on it.

Good luck with your decision. I don't know much about the two you're looking at but you've got at least one person on here who has owned both (Kioti version anayway) and is willing to offer his opinion, which is what you seem to be looking for.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I have no idea what the specs on the Bobcat CT120 are, but just find a comparable Deere tractor, and get the Deere instead. When it comes to tractors, there is probably no comparison between the two brands. Deere is known for making the highest quality tractors out there. Bobcat might be good too, but with Deere you know you are getting the best quality out there.

This HAS to be true. The John Deere Marketing folks says it's so. And we ALL know they wouldn't try to trick us.

Take it from someone who's made a living with his tractors for near 40 years now. I've owned several new Deere tractors and lots of their implements. I've owned several other brands. Here's what I've learned on my own, WITHOUT falling victim to the sales propaganda from the guys in the add dept at Moline Illinois.

NO BRAND has an across the board lead in quality. SOME MODELS with-in individual brands have an advantage over some of their competition. To paint with broad strokes and say "Deere is known for making the highest quality tractors out there" is an instant loss of credibility with me. It's simply not true in broad general terms. They have their issues, they've produced their share of lemons.

Deere sells an image. They sell hype. Sure, they have a really good product in general, but from someone who's had the opportunity to own several brands and run them side by side, to think no one else has their equal in quality, craftsmanship, and value is a naive thought that just doesn't hold up to real world experience.

 

[ByTheLake]

I get tired of people thinking HP makes a tractor. Comparing sub compacts to compacts is like comparing a riding lawn mower to the sub compact. You can put 50 HP to a go cart, but a tractor it doesn't make.

So horse power is not a factor when comparing tractors?

From what i understand, Bobcat released their first couple of models this past fall and will be releasing several more compacts in 2008 (hopefully b-4 summer is over). For a total of 9.

 

[IXLR8]

Ultimatly they will have as many models as Kioti makes.

 

[ByTheLake]

Jim,

I see you have a Kioti tractor.
How long have you had it and would you buy another?

So Bobcat and Kioti are the exact same machine other than paint scheme?

 

[mark.r]

Jim,

I see you have a Kioti tractor.
How long have you had it and would you buy another?

So Bobcat and Kioti are the exact same machine other than paint scheme?

Loader is different. Bobcat uses a Rhino loader I believe. Also I would be shocked to see Bobcat build the larger models, anything larger than the DK45 would shock me . . . if indeed they go that large. That would put them in the AG market and I just don't see it.

 

[Dmace]

So Bobcat and Kioti are the exact same machine other than paint scheme?

The tractor is the same but the attachments (loader & backhoe) are different. Rhino loaders and I don't know who makes the backhoe. Also, I beleive the Rhino loaders have less lift capacities than the Kioti loaders.

 

[crabjoe]

Well I looked at a lot of tractor brands over the last year, and IMO, I came to the following conclusions:

Highest quality = Deere

Best ergonomics = Deere

Highest resale value (not that I plan on ever selling my tractor) = Deere

Best parts availability = Deere

Best dealer network = Deere

You sure about "Best parts availability?"

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/jd-owning-operating/115437-i-need-better-way-move.html

Based on the guy's signature, it's a '95 and he can't get a steering arm for it.

 

[Gittyup]

So horse power is not a factor when comparing tractors?

From what i understand, Bobcat released their first couple of models this past fall and will be releasing several more compacts in 2008 (hopefully b-4 summer is over). For a total of 9.

Of course HP is a factor when buying a tractor. But, today marketeers use it hype up a tractor, like most of the cheap riders you can buy today. Years ago, before all this hype, most lawn tractors were 10 - 12 HP. Those old "low horse power" machines will out perform most of todays 18 - 24 HP machines. It's not just about HP, but how it's applied.

For CUTS (CT120) and subCuts (2305), the HP is only part of the equation. The real business end of these is the tranny and the hydraulics. That is why it is important to look at all the specifications, AND TO DRIVE THEM. You may find that while the CT120 is "more tractor", it may be more than you want and you like the smaller size of the 2305. Or you find just the opposite. The point is that these two tractors are really two different beasts altogether. The 2305 is more in line with the Kubota BX's, and other subcuts offered by New Holland, Massey, and the like. I'm not sure Deere really has a machine right now in a new model that is directly comparable to the CT120.

All of these machines are quality products. So, then it's not unlike buying a Chevy versus a Ford - personal preference. But, you must drive them, and study the specs so that you can make the best informed decision for YOU. Having said this, buy a bit bigger than you think you need. Don't buy too small and then regret it, regardless of color.

 

[IXLR8]

BTL- I bought it used, I have only had it a few months. So far it has done all I have asked of it. The loaded rear tires do add enough extra weight so I need to be a little mindful of how dry the lawn is before I go across it. The Kioti is a heavy machine, the loaded tires just make it that much heavier. If you are looking for a machine to mow with, or spend lots of time on your lawn... it might be too heavy for that, a Kubota or JD would be better. I didn't like the ergonomics of the Kubota, otherwise I probably would have gone with the Kubota. I did get the Kioti cheaper than I would have gotten the Kubota, but Kubota has a very good dealer 10 miles away. My nearest dealer is 55 miles away and is not rumored to be the best. So far I have not needed a dealer so no issue. There are also lots of great online dealers ready to help, one even on Sunday's. The Bobcat is a Kioti machine, same assembly line, different color, different loader. I am guessing Bobcat is using a different loader to not associate themselves with the issue that Kioti had with cracking loaders on the smaller machines, CK20-35, until they redesigned the loaders. The only item that needs to be addressed on my machine is the backhoe was used heavily and one of the hoses has some wear on it from rubbing on the boom where it goes inside the boom and I should replace it in the next few months. The Kioti does have some features as standard that are options on other machines, which helps to add value to the machine. The JD machines do have features that make adding/removing implements easier.. but at a large cost. I still check out other machines and I have not found one that I like better, or a better value than the Kioti. It fits ME well, it might not fit YOU. You do need to go try out as many different tractors as you can, even ones you have no interest in. You might find some feature that you really like, or dislike. That is where I found what machines fit me best and the ones that just didn't work for me ergonomically. You need to find which one you are comfortable with as YOU will be the one to spend lots of time in the seat.
HTH

 

[AchingBack]

So horse power is not a factor when comparing tractors?

From what i understand, Bobcat released their first couple of models this past fall and will be releasing several more compacts in 2008 (hopefully b-4 summer is over). For a total of 9.

Here is my limited understanding of how in some cases, horsepower might not be as much of a factor. A tractor's main job is pulling. It takes traction in order for the tractor to move. A light weight tractor with 25 horsepower, has less traction than a heavier tractor with identical horsepower. Overall, the heavier tractor is getting more out of its horses.

So, when comparing models you may find weight to be a bigger advantage.

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

I'm sorry if I misled you a bit, but I got you thinking. In general what I was trying to get accross was that for the loader and ground engagement work that you are planning on doing, the heaver tractor (Bobcat Kioti) will out do the lighter tractor even with more HP. Be sure you compare your lift capacities and lift capacities, as more will make your tractor more efficient and useful.
While I am here, I will suggest you check out the Mahindra 2415 or 2516 tractors, as the 0% for 60 month financing makes it an attractive bargain. Very nice tractor for the money.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Loader is different. Bobcat uses a Rhino loader I believe. Also I would be shocked to see Bobcat build the larger models, anything larger than the DK45 would shock me . . . if indeed they go that large. That would put them in the AG market and I just don't see it.

Bobcat is targeting the industrial tractor market, not the ag world. Anyone who's trying to garner a piece of the industrial tractor pie is competing with Caterpillar/Challenger and Deere for the most part. As an example, Deere is just now releasing an 85 HP small-framed tractor/loader w/3-point hitch based on the 110 loader/backhoe chassis. There's a lot of use for tractors above 45 hp in the construction world. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to see a Bobcat model well above 45 hp.

In the construction industry, it's VERY common to see equipment leased. Bobcat has a successful lease program. I'd suspect they'll put quite a few of their "new" tractors in the field through that avenue.

 

[mark.r]

Bobcat is targeting the industrial tractor market, not the ag world. Anyone who's trying to garner a piece of the industrial tractor pie is competing with Caterpillar/Challenger and Deere for the most part. As an example, Deere is just now releasing an 85 HP small-framed tractor/loader w/3-point hitch based on the 110 loader/backhoe chassis. There's a lot of use for tractors above 45 hp in the construction world. It wouldn't be a stretch at all to see a Bobcat model well above 45 hp.

In the construction industry, it's VERY common to see equipment leased. Bobcat has a successful lease program. I'd suspect they'll put quite a few of their "new" tractors in the field through that avenue.

That makes sense. So are you saying to expect a white/red DK55/65 clone? Or something built using them as a basis? I call the DK55/65/90 AG tractors and I don't see them being used in the Industrial world without modification to make them "industrial" ready. However, if Bobcat is going to use them as a starting point to build there own higher hp industrial range, that make sense.

 

[daTeacha]

In all this, I see very little mention of the features that seemed big when I was shopping. The proximity and quality of the dealer are important, of course, but other factors that I tossed around before settling on the Case included:

Transmission controls -- Deere made a big deal over their 2 pedal HST versus the rocker pedal

Seat -- size, height, adjustability, angle, etc. Kubota seats made me feel like I was falling forward off the seat. Kioti made me feel like I was standing up. Deere had the highest back, good some of the time, bad other times as when looking behind the tractor. CNH had a good firm seat, tough cover, and it pivots.

Loader controls -- how far do you need to reach when operating the thing?

Overall height -- the Kubota and Deere ROPS in my size machine were sufficiently high that I would be constantly lowering them to get the tractor in the garage/shop door. With the Case, I had to crank a couple of extra turns into the spring to raise the door a little higher, but it fits.

Reachable service items -- fule filler, filters, dipsticks, radiator, etc. With and without the loader in place.

Vulnerabilty of hoses, wires, etc. on the belly of the machine. Several brands have the fuel filter hanging so low I just knew I would break it off on a log or rock running around in my woods. Ditto hydraulic hoses.

Know how and where you will use the tractor, then look it over for things that might be damaged during use. Sit the seats and reach for the controls you will use a lot. Measure the height and width of the openings you need to drive through. Prioritize your uses literally, on paper, giving a value to each. Then go sit, drive, talk, look, walk around the dealership, etc.

For me, it was pretty much up in the air between Kubota, Deere, CNH after eliminating several others for various reasons ranging from dealer location to perceived weakness of design for my use. I finally decided on a machine after visiting a dealer and being treated very graciously by a guy who sold 3 brands with no personal bias toward any of them. He told me the Kubota would be excellent, the Case maybe not quite so good, and the Cadet less so. Even with that, he owned and drove Case for his personal uses. I sat, measured, drove, and chose the Case. No complaints in 300 hours.