CodeMonkey
Silver Member
Additional question - can the BCS drive the PTO driven trailer/carts like the Grillo?
Brush mowing steep slopes
- Thread starter KentT
- Start date
- Views: 60516
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
Unfortunately, most of the land I want to work on is downhill of my house and shop, where I want to move some of the wood to. I have a house and shop that is on the upper portion of the land, which has a part time creek bed in it dividing much of the land from the section the house/shop are on. The creek bed has pretty good slopes on either side of it with mature conifers and one side has a lot of brush, the other side is much clearer.
So I would really like to be able to somehow move wood uphill through a forest on a relatively narrow trail (too narrow for a 4 wheel tractor, maybe too narrow for an ATV).
I don't need to do much work on the far side, but I do want to keep the trails clear (I suppose I can keep the steepest trail clear with the hand power tools).
The portion nearest the house and above it are not as steep but just a lot of brush. I could rent something to clear it, but then I would want to maintain that clearing. I also will need to do tilling in the terraced garden area I want to create and mow whatever trails I can a couple of times a year. So for those tasks I can see the purchase of a 2 wheel tractor could be justified, but it would be nice to be able to use it on the steeper sections of the land too.
In the winter when the windstorms come through some small and even large trees fall across the trails so I need to take care of those from time to time. Probably won't try to get a tractor of any sort in there in the winter as the ground would be too sloppy to get back out and I don't want to leave a tractor out in the woods for a long time or struggle with getting it out. It would be fun enough to get in and out in the summer.
I've used a Troy tiller in the past, but for my purposes I think I need something more versatile. I like the idea of using a PTO with the implements. Also, a lot of this ground has never been worked - not sure how hard it will be.
At the very least I am thinking I will need something to deal with brush, and something to deal with tilling up sod and terracing. Also it would be nice to have a log splitter and maybe a blade to spread gravel around on my driveway and maybe use it to help with the terracing.
farmerboybill
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 782
- Location
- Southwestern Wisconsin
- Tractor
- BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel
I don't think you're going to have much luck pulling more than very small stuff up steep hills with anything two-wheeled. Dragging dead weight requires lots of traction. Two wheeled tractors are great, but they lack THAT kind of traction. Have you looked into a 120volt winch at the top of the hill and a couple hundred feet of cables and chains?
BCS did have a powered trailer long ago. As far as I know, only a handful of the trailers made it into the US. You're probably not gonna be able to nail one down. That said, Grillo will probably be your best bet if you really wanted to have a powered trailer. Frankly, I'd be inclined to buy a Diesel Kubota utility vehicle. They have a smaller payload, but are faster, more maneuverable, more comfortable, and you can bring a couple friends to help out. You can get Hyrdaulic power ports on them to power your wood splitter, among other attachments.
Now, keeping trails clear would be right up the Grillo or BCS's alley. Mate it up to a Berta flail mower, and go. The Berta will shred anything up to 1 inch woody material. The Berta rotary plow will work great for terracing. As it goes forward, it has a set of blades that scoop the dirt out of a furrow and throw it from a couple feet to 6 feet, depending on how fast you have the engine running. It will also break your sod. If you don't have a splitter yet and really want one for the Grillo or BCS, Joel offers two - the BCS model and a model he builds himself.
BCS did have a powered trailer long ago. As far as I know, only a handful of the trailers made it into the US. You're probably not gonna be able to nail one down. That said, Grillo will probably be your best bet if you really wanted to have a powered trailer. Frankly, I'd be inclined to buy a Diesel Kubota utility vehicle. They have a smaller payload, but are faster, more maneuverable, more comfortable, and you can bring a couple friends to help out. You can get Hyrdaulic power ports on them to power your wood splitter, among other attachments.
Now, keeping trails clear would be right up the Grillo or BCS's alley. Mate it up to a Berta flail mower, and go. The Berta will shred anything up to 1 inch woody material. The Berta rotary plow will work great for terracing. As it goes forward, it has a set of blades that scoop the dirt out of a furrow and throw it from a couple feet to 6 feet, depending on how fast you have the engine running. It will also break your sod. If you don't have a splitter yet and really want one for the Grillo or BCS, Joel offers two - the BCS model and a model he builds himself.
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
Thanks.
I was thinking that the tractors probably don't have enough weight on the tires to do good climbing and at the same time I know from my off-roading experience the heavier something is the harder it is to climb with it.
I might get an ATV with a utility bed later, but what I want to do is clear some of the closest land to put in a good garden and I am pretty sure I can do that land with a 2 wheel tractor. The steep stuff is a lower priority, I can use hand power tools for a lot of that.
I just went out for a walk on the property to refresh my memory and took some pics so I will post them later.
I have virtually no power tools. All I have is a farm truck and some dirt bikes and an anemic bank account after buying this property.
When my family sold the farm pretty much everything went with it and I've been living in the city until this year when I bought this property on a mountain not too far from the farm (it is weird going past the farm every day on my way to work - a lot of memories there). I had no room or need for anything except a lawn mower. I need to get a lot of stuff.
A winch would need to be 12 volt as the top of the trail where it goes into the woods is about 100 yards from any power. I am rethinking how much I would need to haul any wood out of there - it just would not be worth it and probably unnecessary.
One thing I would like to have that I haven't seen offered for the 2 wheel tractors is a power auger implement.
I was thinking that the tractors probably don't have enough weight on the tires to do good climbing and at the same time I know from my off-roading experience the heavier something is the harder it is to climb with it.
I might get an ATV with a utility bed later, but what I want to do is clear some of the closest land to put in a good garden and I am pretty sure I can do that land with a 2 wheel tractor. The steep stuff is a lower priority, I can use hand power tools for a lot of that.
I just went out for a walk on the property to refresh my memory and took some pics so I will post them later.
I have virtually no power tools. All I have is a farm truck and some dirt bikes and an anemic bank account after buying this property.
When my family sold the farm pretty much everything went with it and I've been living in the city until this year when I bought this property on a mountain not too far from the farm (it is weird going past the farm every day on my way to work - a lot of memories there). I had no room or need for anything except a lawn mower. I need to get a lot of stuff.
A winch would need to be 12 volt as the top of the trail where it goes into the woods is about 100 yards from any power. I am rethinking how much I would need to haul any wood out of there - it just would not be worth it and probably unnecessary.
One thing I would like to have that I haven't seen offered for the 2 wheel tractors is a power auger implement.
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
What would seem neat would be a power wheel barrow that had its wheels powered by the PTO like some of the trailers are, instead of just the tractor power unit pushing it.
farmerboybill
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 782
- Location
- Southwestern Wisconsin
- Tractor
- BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel
The powered trailers aren't powered by the attachment PTO. They are powered by a secondary PTO above the attachment PTO. If you have your heart set on a powered trailer, you will need to buy a new tractor with the trailer PTO kit on it.
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,540
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
Or use the attachment PTO to run a hydraulic pump that powers a hydraulic motor which drives the trailer axle.
Aaron Z
Aaron Z
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
Thanks again. Good feedback.
I had some good feedback from another forum (non-tractor): I should check out something like the Toro Dingo too.
While those are quite a bit more expensive than a BCS, they might be pretty useful. They are more of an industrial tractor, like a skid-steer (saw a New Holland skidsteer in craigslist for $6K).
Which I could use if I can add implements as varied as those for a 2 wheeled tractor. An auger, a front end loader, a grapple, etc., those kinds of things would be useful to have too and are less about gardening and more about managing various other work tasks that would come up on a forested property.
Probably be lower priority to get though.
I had some good feedback from another forum (non-tractor): I should check out something like the Toro Dingo too.
While those are quite a bit more expensive than a BCS, they might be pretty useful. They are more of an industrial tractor, like a skid-steer (saw a New Holland skidsteer in craigslist for $6K).
Which I could use if I can add implements as varied as those for a 2 wheeled tractor. An auger, a front end loader, a grapple, etc., those kinds of things would be useful to have too and are less about gardening and more about managing various other work tasks that would come up on a forested property.
Probably be lower priority to get though.
farmerboybill
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 782
- Location
- Southwestern Wisconsin
- Tractor
- BCS 850 diesel and 735 diesel
The Dingo is a walk-behind skid steer. I don't know a lot about it, but it is primarily used for landscaping work where a skid steer can't go. They do have a lot of attachments for them - almost as many as a full size skid steer.
I'd be wary of buying a skid steer of any size unless you have a strong knowledge of them. They have come a very long way in the last 15 years. Many attachments of today cannot be used on older models. If you buy an old NH with a 13 GPM system and no auxiliary hydraulics, you won't be able to run so much as a grapple bucket. Many more complicated attachments such as mowers and snowblowers will require higher flow hydraulics, auxiliary hydraulics, electric over hydraulic systems, etc. These can be added to older machines, but at a high cost. My skid steer is a 2007 John Deere 317 and it will not run some attachments I would like to have.
That, and skid steers are generally not good for traction once you get them off concrete or gravel. I get two inches of rain or 12 inches of snow and my skid steer isn't going anywhere near a wooded slope. I can usually dig my way out of trouble, but I have had to pull it out with my 125 hp John Deere 4430 a few times.
I'd be wary of buying a skid steer of any size unless you have a strong knowledge of them. They have come a very long way in the last 15 years. Many attachments of today cannot be used on older models. If you buy an old NH with a 13 GPM system and no auxiliary hydraulics, you won't be able to run so much as a grapple bucket. Many more complicated attachments such as mowers and snowblowers will require higher flow hydraulics, auxiliary hydraulics, electric over hydraulic systems, etc. These can be added to older machines, but at a high cost. My skid steer is a 2007 John Deere 317 and it will not run some attachments I would like to have.
That, and skid steers are generally not good for traction once you get them off concrete or gravel. I get two inches of rain or 12 inches of snow and my skid steer isn't going anywhere near a wooded slope. I can usually dig my way out of trouble, but I have had to pull it out with my 125 hp John Deere 4430 a few times.
Skid steers with over the tire tracks will go almost anywhere if they don't roll. Remember they are weighted heavier on the rear end so you don't need huge counterweights, so unless you have a load on the front end you need to back up the hill.
They make grapples and brush mowers for mini skid steers.
They make grapples and brush mowers for mini skid steers.
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
again - thanks for the info
it has been a while since I messed with any tractors - used to be a tractor mech (worked my way through college at a couple of JD dealers) but that was decades ago.
it has been a while since I messed with any tractors - used to be a tractor mech (worked my way through college at a couple of JD dealers) but that was decades ago.
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
This is the area I want to terrace and is the relatively flat area on the downslope from my house.
The upslope from the house is flatter but has mature conifers I want to leave alone.
The rest of the property, probably about 16+ acres, is much more steeply sloped.
At the very least I want to terrace the area above and work it as a garden.
The upslope from the house is flatter but has mature conifers I want to leave alone.
The rest of the property, probably about 16+ acres, is much more steeply sloped.
At the very least I want to terrace the area above and work it as a garden.
bought gravely, good machine, well built, but did not do what i wanted. they are too low to get over rough ground. now have dr mower with brush mower, good machine and will cut one inch saplings, briars, weeds etc., without problem.
SPYDERLK
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2006
- Messages
- 12,549
- Location
- VA
- Tractor
- JD2010, Kubota3450,2550, Mahindra 7520 w FEL w Skid Steer QC w/Tilt Tatch, & BH, BX1500
This has to be a % slope designation. Regardless of width, a 60 degree would require a traction coefficient of 1.7. You dont get this on any dirt surface unless youre driving spikes into the ground.Thanks - will do. I hope to try it out (without the ags mounted) on some spots next week. I've located a 30" brush/weed deck for it locally so I'll install it and take it for a test run. After researching these old Gravelys more, the only real concern I have going into it is the splash-lubed Kohler engine. From the Kohler manuals:
That 23 degrees with the carb-side downhil is due to oilpan and crankshaft's oil slinger configuration. I'm really not worried about the machine's ability to stick to the slopes, because older L-model Gravely owner's manuals said their slope capability was 60 degrees, when running duals. That was, of course, the pressure-lubed Gravely engine.
In comparison, my PT-425's CH-25 is rated at 25 degrees on sideslopes (doesn't differentiate sides). So, I may end uphill mowing up and downhill with the Gravely in those areas with no runout or turnaround. I'll just have to wait and see... meanwhile I've ordered another set of ags and one set of chains but they won't be delivered and installed for next week's test run...
And, I'll learn how to operate it down in the hollow where it is safe...
larry
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
Finally got something.
About a month ago I got a Stihl Kombi system and after about three weekends of using that I could tell there was no way I was going to keep up with the growth, much less make headway, so I decided to go ahead and look at Gravelys. But then I started comparing a BCS and found a used 730 for only a little more than any running Gravely that was on the used market. The BCS I think is a better tractor, especially for what I have to do.
So today I went and got the used 730 with a tiller for $1300 and then went to another place and got a used BCS Bio100 chipper/shredder at a rental shop for $1000.
The 730 needs the PTO engagement lever worked on; it is frozen at the bottom and won't rotate because the PO never rotated the unit. I also need to get taller wheels - the current wheels are not tall enough to move the chipper/shredder around. I will probably also get axle extensions to widen the stance as my land is steep in places and rough everywhere - it would be all too easy to tip it over.
The almost first thing I did was remove the tape around the engine shutoff safety lever on the handle as when I tried the tiller out on some hard ground it got away from me and sent me flying off into some brush. The tiller propelled the machine much faster than the wheels would in low gear.
It seems to me that the wheels are constant speed whereas the PTO isn't. I am used to it being the other way around (IIRC from my tractor days - I could be wrong) - which is okay, I prefer the wheels to go a set speed when I am using it for ground work.
The high gear though is so fast I have to trot along to keep up with it. If I use that for snow removal or even just transport, I am going to have to get a sulky or something.
I am looking for a used flail attachment, which is what I really really need - but having no luck. Probably going to have to buy a new one. Oh well - I saved enough on the rest that it won't hurt too much.
About a month ago I got a Stihl Kombi system and after about three weekends of using that I could tell there was no way I was going to keep up with the growth, much less make headway, so I decided to go ahead and look at Gravelys. But then I started comparing a BCS and found a used 730 for only a little more than any running Gravely that was on the used market. The BCS I think is a better tractor, especially for what I have to do.
So today I went and got the used 730 with a tiller for $1300 and then went to another place and got a used BCS Bio100 chipper/shredder at a rental shop for $1000.
The 730 needs the PTO engagement lever worked on; it is frozen at the bottom and won't rotate because the PO never rotated the unit. I also need to get taller wheels - the current wheels are not tall enough to move the chipper/shredder around. I will probably also get axle extensions to widen the stance as my land is steep in places and rough everywhere - it would be all too easy to tip it over.
The almost first thing I did was remove the tape around the engine shutoff safety lever on the handle as when I tried the tiller out on some hard ground it got away from me and sent me flying off into some brush. The tiller propelled the machine much faster than the wheels would in low gear.
It seems to me that the wheels are constant speed whereas the PTO isn't. I am used to it being the other way around (IIRC from my tractor days - I could be wrong) - which is okay, I prefer the wheels to go a set speed when I am using it for ground work.
The high gear though is so fast I have to trot along to keep up with it. If I use that for snow removal or even just transport, I am going to have to get a sulky or something.
I am looking for a used flail attachment, which is what I really really need - but having no luck. Probably going to have to buy a new one. Oh well - I saved enough on the rest that it won't hurt too much.
gravelys need a smooth place to operate. they are low on the ground and will become high-centered on a small stump, rock, etc.. also, the differential puts power to the spinning wheel, so the wheel on high ground will spin and machine will stop. also, if cutter gets lodge on something, machine will put power to cutter and machine will stop moving.
CodeMonkey
Silver Member
My land is anything but smooth or flat. Even the lawn is rough.
aczlan
Good Morning
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2008
- Messages
- 17,540
- Tractor
- Kubota L3830GST, B7500HST, BX2660. Formerly: Case 480F LL, David Brown 880UE
Meh. I put MANY hours behind a Gravely Super Convertible L with turfs as a teenager and never had a problem with getting stuck once I put chains on it. They were some castoff chains from the garden tractor that I cut down so only there were 4 chains across the wheel, but that was enough.
Aaron Z
OP
KentT
Elite Member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 2,928
- Location
- Sevierville, TN
- Tractor
- 1993 Power Trac 1430 w/Kubota diesel engine
LOL... I just got an email notification that someone had resurrected this OLD thread. Don't know how/why I was notified now, and so many replies and time had gone by without being notified...
So, I'll provide an update. I put dual snowblower tires on the Gravely shown earlier, and it has done pretty darned well on the slopes.
I also upgraded the wheel motors on my Power Trac 425 to much larger displacement ones, gaining SIGNIFICANT torque though slowing down the top speed of the tractor. The Gravely has been used largely in areas where's there's no runout at the bottom, so I don't feel safe using the Power Trac there. Meanwhile, I've really not experienced any issues using the Gravely with it's low ground clearance. I've only gotten it "high-centered" once and that was not on these hillsides - it was trying to climb up and out of a field onto the raised driveway. Here's an update on the Power Trac copied/pasted from : http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/277326-new-wheel-motors-pt-425-a.html
The Power Trac is now a Billy Goat, and will go anywhere it will get traction. I'm running 26x12x12 ag lug tires, loaded with windshield washer fluid, and it's working well. It is SLOW however, going only about 1/2 the speed it did originally. But, that's plenty fast enough for these steep hillsides. I've been too busy using it, to provide reports about it...
To put it into perspective, some before and after pics, of what I mowed with the brush hog and then raked the debris off with the landscape rake. View of the overgrown field below the house, from the yard - before.
Alternate view, from the dining room deck:
What it looks like now (actually last fall), from the yard. Most of that brush pile actually came from the yard, where I cleared out sprouts/saplings and low branches off the shade trees.
I've "bush-hogged" about 4 acres or so with the Power Trac cutting hardwood brush up to about 1.5" and pines over 2"... then raked up the debris with the landscape rake.
I also pulled out a section of fence a few hundred yards long, that separated the yard from the field. It was overgrown with honeysuckle vines, and a cedar tree had blown down across it. Removing it made it much easier (and safer) to go up and down those slopes.
View from the back yard, looking down into the hollow, before...
Similar view now. There's two piles of old tree trunks and stumps that run vertically up the hillside, where the field was initially cleared with a bulldozer, I'm guessing. I can't mow in there, and am contemplating just leaving them alone.
The driveway/parking area, before, as you approach the house, initially:
And now. I've spread 5 dump truck loads of fill dirt, levelling a spot (with retaining walls) to put a carport, and a better area to turn around.
I've transplanted ornamental grass and yucca plants as visual borders and "guard rails" around the parking areas on both sides. Now I just need to get another load of gravel delivered and spread.
Note the overgrown flower bed below the deck a couple pictures above. Here's what it looks like now, with the grasses and yucca moved out, and reseeded in grass.
A couple of "superflous" decks on the lower level, where the previous owners had a small above-ground pool. There were simply too many decks/porches to try to keep maintained, and I won't be having a pool...
Those two lower levels have now been removed, leaving the large 20x30 deck above. Here it is prior to final seed prep last fall:
So, I'll provide an update. I put dual snowblower tires on the Gravely shown earlier, and it has done pretty darned well on the slopes.
I also upgraded the wheel motors on my Power Trac 425 to much larger displacement ones, gaining SIGNIFICANT torque though slowing down the top speed of the tractor. The Gravely has been used largely in areas where's there's no runout at the bottom, so I don't feel safe using the Power Trac there. Meanwhile, I've really not experienced any issues using the Gravely with it's low ground clearance. I've only gotten it "high-centered" once and that was not on these hillsides - it was trying to climb up and out of a field onto the raised driveway. Here's an update on the Power Trac copied/pasted from : http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/power-trac/277326-new-wheel-motors-pt-425-a.html
The Power Trac is now a Billy Goat, and will go anywhere it will get traction. I'm running 26x12x12 ag lug tires, loaded with windshield washer fluid, and it's working well. It is SLOW however, going only about 1/2 the speed it did originally. But, that's plenty fast enough for these steep hillsides. I've been too busy using it, to provide reports about it...
To put it into perspective, some before and after pics, of what I mowed with the brush hog and then raked the debris off with the landscape rake. View of the overgrown field below the house, from the yard - before.
Alternate view, from the dining room deck:
What it looks like now (actually last fall), from the yard. Most of that brush pile actually came from the yard, where I cleared out sprouts/saplings and low branches off the shade trees.
I've "bush-hogged" about 4 acres or so with the Power Trac cutting hardwood brush up to about 1.5" and pines over 2"... then raked up the debris with the landscape rake.
I also pulled out a section of fence a few hundred yards long, that separated the yard from the field. It was overgrown with honeysuckle vines, and a cedar tree had blown down across it. Removing it made it much easier (and safer) to go up and down those slopes.
View from the back yard, looking down into the hollow, before...
Similar view now. There's two piles of old tree trunks and stumps that run vertically up the hillside, where the field was initially cleared with a bulldozer, I'm guessing. I can't mow in there, and am contemplating just leaving them alone.
The driveway/parking area, before, as you approach the house, initially:
And now. I've spread 5 dump truck loads of fill dirt, levelling a spot (with retaining walls) to put a carport, and a better area to turn around.
I've transplanted ornamental grass and yucca plants as visual borders and "guard rails" around the parking areas on both sides. Now I just need to get another load of gravel delivered and spread.
Note the overgrown flower bed below the deck a couple pictures above. Here's what it looks like now, with the grasses and yucca moved out, and reseeded in grass.
A couple of "superflous" decks on the lower level, where the previous owners had a small above-ground pool. There were simply too many decks/porches to try to keep maintained, and I won't be having a pool...
Those two lower levels have now been removed, leaving the large 20x30 deck above. Here it is prior to final seed prep last fall:
