Camera Security Systems???

[CMV]

IF it does discourage a crime, then really a fake one will work equally well. Actually, I prefer real, but defective ones! I have been in the security bus for almost thirty years. I sell camera systems to institutions and business where they are useful. I sell door intercoms with cameras that are useful. I won't sell residential camera systems, because I find them misunderstood and for the most part useless in preventing crime against my customers, and THAT is my business.

I don't really get that. After dealing with a home burglary (no security system, no cameras), I installed both. I don't think just cameras substitute for an actual alarm, but great addition to it. The cameras themselves are a deterrent - mine are placed conspicuously. Same for the alarm company stickers. But the few times we have had the alarm go off, the local PD response time was about 15 min each time. That's a LONG time for someone to be in your house. So if someone were to figure alarm or not, I've a good 10 min to grab what I can, at least i'll have some good video of them afterwards and maybe better chance of them getting caught. Box is in safe and on a UPS, so even if someone were to cut power to the house I'm still going to have 20 min or so of recording and doubt they're going to risk sticking around long enough to defeat safe with alarm going off. So I don't get "not selling camera systems to residential customers" - seems like a good companion system to an alarm. Even if not as effective as a big dog or nosy neighbors, it's a little peace of mind. Which is what a home alarm system boils down to.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Home alarm with a three dollar pizano noise maker by any chance? Cameras can provide situational awareness in real time, which can be useful. I will never sell something that I don't think makes any sense or is of little value to the customer. But the number of stupid calls I get about "catching someone" blah, blah, blah is just ridiculous and I have no interest in participating in that.

Now, if a murder has been committed, TOTALLY different story. Then, any captured video is of great value.

 

[CMV]

Probably $1.50. $3 is a lot of upgrade......

Yes, they recommended the attic mounted super-loud horn, but not knowing what the frequency of (if any) false alarms would be, didn't want that blasting from the attic. In a development on 1/4 acre lots so lots of close neighbors. While I would love all their eyes on my property in event of a fire or burglary I don't want to be a nuisance interrupting those who work from home, have babies sleeping, etc with false alarms. So I think that was a good compromise. Loud and annoying inside, but not bothering neighbors. We typically inadvertently set it off about twice per year just forgetting and opening a door or something. Usually about once every 10-12 months will get an alarm when we aren't home. Door from garage into kitchen not completely latched but appeared closed - on real windy days, that can blow open. 20lb dog isn't supposed to be able to set off motion detector, but occasionally has (or something has - assume its him).

Another thought on the value of conspicuous security cameras....the Amazon package thieves. Lots of them around our parts. None of my deliveries left at front door have been messed with and I think the conspicuous cameras are reason why. Why risk it when they can just drive down the street and get someone else's with no cameras? Mine are good enough (barely) to get good vehicle description & license plate from one that catches street, and then excellent closeup pictures approaching or at front door where packages are left.

Since I haven't had it happen, I have no idea how that works. But say you have a $300 Amazon delivery and it gets stolen. I would guess Amazon and FedEx/UPS are going to look at the tracking # and say "it was delivered" and it's not enough to turn into homeowner's insurance. So if a $300 package grows legs, you're just out $300? If so and a $300 camera system keeps that from happening, you broke even.....

 

[Industrial Toys]

Note to self. If going out to acquire amazon packages, pack ski mask!

Generally speaking my systems have never false alarmed. I used detectors that cost me fifty bucks as opposed to the nine dollar ones the industry was generally using. Also, usually four of those large 30 watt sirens. Sometimes the attic or soffit ones were on a timer so a brief alarm from entry error, would not be heard outside. All this takes time and dedication, not your mass market, lick and stick installation.

 

[goeduck]

I personally wish they would remove the word "security" when used with cameras. I mean, as far as joe blow public goes.

You don't want to get robbed, that's what REAL security is about. Having footage after you have been robbed is quite useless in my way of thinking, and certainly not security at all.

Since you are in the biz, is there a commercial grade recording unit for IP cameras that you would recommend from ADI or somewhere? I know someone who can private purchase there and they do commercial sales. I see they have Hikvision, Flir, Honeywell and Digital Watchdog.

 

[Diggin It]

Short of fortification (which can be illegal), deter, detect and identify is the best most can hope for. But to effectively identify, cameras need to be placed properly. You can't really identify unknown people with only a picture of the top of their head.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have been using Hikvision DVRs for a while. I have also had good luck with Digital Watchdog cameras. I wouldn't give you a nickle for Honeywell CCTV! You are talking decent stuff. Not the mass market, package of junk.

Just as a note, I used to sell Multiplexers that would put 16 B&W cameras on a security VHS DVR at around seven thousand dollars a pop! Another reason, the new res. CCTV market doesn't interest me much!

I have some awesome lenses that came out of the NSA, that I would still like to use someday. I wonder if you can even get C-Mount cameras anymore.

 

[dragoneggs]

More camera research and now I am leaning toward Reolink brand. Does seem to be best bang for the buck.

Now I have to figure out the interface between them and my existing QNAP NAS system. I would rather not have to buy a stand alone NVR.

I think the answer is I need to buy some software called 'Surveillance Station' that will allow control of the cameras. And also a router with enough ports that handle PoE. My current router is full.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ You don't need a router. There should generally only be one of those on a network. You need a POE switch, or a standard switch with separate POE injectors.

 

[Overtaxed]

Something I know a lot about. I have cameras all over my property, and I'm an IT guy by trade.. So, I've done a lot of research on it, and wound up with Ubiquiti. They are the leader in "commercial grade" but consumer priced gear. I'll warn you though, it's not "cheap". It works great, it lasts (I have installs that are over 5 years old still working great) and it is wildly configurable. So, that said, let's figure you what you need:

Cameras (get as many as you need):
UniFi Video G3-FLEX Camera






– Ubiquiti Networks
(There are other options too, these are just the most cost effective)

Location 1 (allows for up to 5 cameras, if you need more, get a bigger switch) :
Switch: UniFi Switch 8 (15W)






– Ubiquiti Networks
DVR/controller: UniFi Cloud Key Gen2 Plus






– Ubiquiti Networks
Signal transmitter to location 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NN1J4K/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Location 2 (allows for up to 7 cameras, if you need more, get a bigger switch):
Switch: UniFi Switch 8 (15W)






– Ubiquiti Networks
Signal transmitter to location 1: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NN1J4K/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With this system, you'll need to run cat 5/6 cable to all the cameras. You may what to hire this done, making up Ethernet ends isn't hard, but, if you've never done it before, it could be frustrating. Terminate everything into a punch down block and then plug it all in. I can add pictures of my installation if you'd like to see it, I have 5 cameras on my barn and 5 cameras on my house. Still have some blind spots, but, it's pretty good. I can also point you at the right cable to use (DO NOT use the cheap alum with copper coating (CCA), you'll hate yourself for it, pay the extra, get real copper) and the racks/punch downs/etc. If you had all the equipment ready and called a guy to come do the cable runs for you, you're probably looking at a few hundred bucks (assuming there's no crazy attic/underground/etc work).

All in, I've probably spent about 2K on my setup. I also have WiFi in my barn too, it's real easy to add that to this setup, and it works as a mesh, so when I walk from the house to barn, I have WiFi the whole way and it hands off seamlessly. It's a very nice and very reliable system.

 

[Diggin It]

^^ I've got mixed feelings about 110 punch blocks/patch panels. It can be hard for a novice to lay down the right color codes. I prefer terminating cable runs on Keystone jacks (still 110) that lock into patch panels and then use patch cords from there to the switches or other devices (routers, POE injectors, etc.).

 

[dragoneggs]

Something I know a lot about. I have cameras all over my property, and I'm an IT guy by trade.. So, I've done a lot of research on it, and wound up with Ubiquiti. They are the leader in "commercial grade" but consumer priced gear. I'll warn you though, it's not "cheap". It works great, it lasts (I have installs that are over 5 years old still working great) and it is wildly configurable. So, that said, let's figure you what you need:

Cameras (get as many as you need):
UniFi Video G3-FLEX Camera






– Ubiquiti Networks
(There are other options too, these are just the most cost effective)

Location 1 (allows for up to 5 cameras, if you need more, get a bigger switch) :
Switch: UniFi Switch 8 (15W)






– Ubiquiti Networks
DVR/controller: UniFi Cloud Key Gen2 Plus






– Ubiquiti Networks
Signal transmitter to location 2: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NN1J4K/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Location 2 (allows for up to 7 cameras, if you need more, get a bigger switch):
Switch: UniFi Switch 8 (15W)






– Ubiquiti Networks
Signal transmitter to location 1: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078NN1J4K/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With this system, you'll need to run cat 5/6 cable to all the cameras. You may what to hire this done, making up Ethernet ends isn't hard, but, if you've never done it before, it could be frustrating. Terminate everything into a punch down block and then plug it all in. I can add pictures of my installation if you'd like to see it, I have 5 cameras on my barn and 5 cameras on my house. Still have some blind spots, but, it's pretty good. I can also point you at the right cable to use (DO NOT use the cheap alum with copper coating (CCA), you'll hate yourself for it, pay the extra, get real copper) and the racks/punch downs/etc. If you had all the equipment ready and called a guy to come do the cable runs for you, you're probably looking at a few hundred bucks (assuming there's no crazy attic/underground/etc work).

All in, I've probably spent about 2K on my setup. I also have WiFi in my barn too, it's real easy to add that to this setup, and it works as a mesh, so when I walk from the house to barn, I have WiFi the whole way and it hands off seamlessly. It's a very nice and very reliable system.

Quick look at the UniFi cameras but these don't appear to have close the same resolution at the Reolinks. 1080 vs 1440. That is important to me.

Question: Does one simply plug a PoE switch into an existing router?

 

[Diggin It]

Question: Does one simply plug a PoE switch into an existing router?

Generally, yes. There should be at least one non-POE port to use as an uplink port.

 

[dragoneggs]

Generally, yes. There should be at least one non-POE port to use as an uplink port.

Gonna have to look, hang on...

 

[Industrial Toys]

Unfortunately most people don't have the luxury of comparing video equipment side by side and I have found, that is often the only way you can compare. Like the old TV stores or departments.

I have had (security system) customers go out and buy big box CCTV systems, believe it or not pharmaceutical companies, to meet health canada requirements. Those cameras gradually degraded to zero performance. I have had cameras fail, but never degrade. Notwithstanding old vidicon tube cameras! There is some real junk out there.

 

[goeduck]

I picked up a bunch of Axis cameras off of a contractor liquidation for a prayer a few months back, most new still in boxes. No one knew what they were including one a PTZ with a 32x zoom. A number of 5 MP cameras, all POE. I have seen Axis cameras in commercial buildings so I know they are not cheap. A nice Vigitron Hi POE 24 port switch as well. Now I just need the head end and to pull the Ethernet cables. I might look at one of those Hikivison units.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Unfortunately a lot of that high end stuff is quite proprietary. I just put in some cameras (Hikvision) that provide 1080P over coax, but they only work on the new Hikvision Recorder. It was an Evil plan. One of two outside cameras had failed and when I replaced it with 1080P suddenly the customer didn't like the old cameras anymore and requested I replace them all.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Quick look at the UniFi cameras but these don't appear to have close the same resolution at the Reolinks. 1080 vs 1440. That is important to me.

Question: Does one simply plug a PoE switch into an existing router?

Yes, i have a couple poe switches. You can also buy a cheap poe injector for just one camera.

 

[dragoneggs]

Generally, yes. There should be at least one non-POE port to use as an uplink port.

Gonna have to look, hang on...

Well my router, Netgear GS108T seems to support PoE. Making progress.

Richard, the Lorex system worked okay for me out of the box but as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I regretted the proprietary cables. I want a system that uses Cat 5/6 so my options are open. I don't know if you can add other brand cameras to this system but maybe that isn't important to you. If you do go Lorex, check Costco.

 

[vvanders]

Any router will support PoE, it's all in the switch/pass-through that injects power into the final cable. I use the US-8-60W here Ubiquiti Networks - UniFi(R) Switch 8 that gives me 4 PoE ports. Two of them run my two access points and the third runs some other hardware that I have.

PoE is the way to go IMO. Brings power and data right to the camera which is hard to beat for simplicity.