Caterpillar Diverter Valve

[BukitCase]

Brandi, I feel your pain (and MINE ) - I finally quit deluding myself that my short term memory is as good as it was 20 years ago, and found a cool app for my phone called Colornote -

it's kinda like a mini-word processor, lets you choose lists or text - it also works with the microphone if you just wanna get a concept saved for later consideration, send the note as a text, etc - it auto-saves when you leave it, plus most of the usual stuff today's phones are capable of - I use it quite a bit for checklists AFTER I've told it what I'm gonna do.

My phone's Android system, dunno if Colornote is available for Apple or not, but it's worth a look -

BTW, I've been making most of my hoses using DHH's "field re-usable" ends and bulk hose - so far they do NOT offer those connectors for the more flexible hose, so anything that NEEDS that extra flexibility I still have to get from elsewhere. Fortunately ONE of the two local hyd. shops I deal with is almost as reasonable as DHH is on a lot of stuff... Steve

 

[bindian]

I have been busy today making clamp brackets. Here is what I got so far. The boom side mount bracket and the QD bracket will have tapped holes in 1/2 inch plate that will be welded on.

..............and here is the QD Mounting Bracket.

Small X about a foot in front of the T is where the QD bracket will go.
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

Yes - for some reason, male JIC's often cost more than females - your link is for a MALE JIC end, and the individual pieces I linked are just the female JIC sleeve with a female nut - they're installed by gently screwing the nut onto a male JIC fitting (with the sleeve INSIDE the nut), then inserting the tubing into both and finally tightening the nut onto the male JIC fitting til the sleeve is crimped onto the tube. IMO, the ones you linked are grossly overpriced so I've used the separate components to make a female JIC, then if you need that end to be MALE, just get a male/male JIC and screw THAT into the tube-mounted female.

In 1/2" size, that male/male JIC adds a whole $1.07, for a whopping total of $6.33 instead of $23.86...
JIC 37ｰ Tube Union (Steel)

Steve

The reason the cost is so high is need the fitting to compress the sleeve in with the nut. The male fitting for JIC is not JIC on both ends. It is neither pipe or JIC threads. This I asked Marc at Discount Hydraulic Hose.

Here is what he said to me in an email when I asked if they were pipe or JIC threads..................Neither. They only screw onto the compression fittings, they are not JIC or Pipe threaded, they are compression thread. You can see the different thread types and pitches in our free thread ID guide (click free download): How to Identify Fluid Ports and Connectors Marc Vasquez
DiscountHydraulicHose.com
The compression fittings I got from the place in Alvin are jic thread on one end and the compression thread (what pitch it may be) on the other end. The compression end looks more like BSPP to me.
hugs, Brandi

 

[BukitCase]

That makes perfect sense to me - I remember they do NOT recommend using a single fitting to compress several of the flareless fittings - being stubborn, I tried it anyway - another reason for the lubed threads. So far no problems, but I only used each JIC fitting MALE to do 4 or 5 flareless fittings - used a large hex version of a JIC union clamped in the vise, so each relatively cheap union got me maybe 8 fittings crimped for about $.25 extra per flareless fitting.

Some of my "pipe dreams" aren't in a position to make crimping them in place practical, so this worked better for me. So far, no leaks or other problems... Steve

 

[bindian]

The 1/2 inch line clamps came in yesterday. Since I was off tonight, I got to weld them to the brackets and installed, along with the QD mounting bracket and plates.
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

Found a couple pix of the flareless JIC's on my 580 (part of a larger project incl. loader QA, grapple, etc) - these are 3/8", don't need speed for anything these extra remotes will control - sorry about the "bundle of snakes", I wanted to keep these as low to the deck as possible

Where did you buy the stainless tubing and what it is? 304? What wall thickness is it?
hugs, Brandi

 

[BukitCase]

That was 3/8" x .035 wall 304 - normal hydraulic pressures no problem at that diameter, larger (like 1/2") should be at least 18 ga. (.050" or bigger) - those pieces were actually from "dumpster diving" at work - up til the last 4-5 years I worked (rare metals plant) they allowed us to buy scrap from the dumpsters (separate ones for mild, stainless, zirc, Ti, copper, etc) - IIRC, at that time mild scrap was $.05/lb, stainless was $.10...

If you can't find any locally, here's one source

ASTM A269-1 34 Stainless Steel Round Tube | Buy Online | Cut to Size | No Minimum Order

check out the price difference on different wall thickness - 16 ga. 1/2" tube is less than 18 ga. ??? so if you're not desperate for that last little bit of flow, it's cheaper and sturdier to go thicker wall...

Also, note that they will cut a 20' stick in half, should make shipping a little easier. Here's a gauge chart if you don't already have one... Steve

 

[bindian]

That was 3/8" x .035 wall 304 - normal hydraulic pressures no problem at that diameter, larger (like 1/2") should be at least 18 ga. (.050" or bigger) - those pieces were actually from "dumpster diving" at work - up til the last 4-5 years I worked (rare metals plant) they allowed us to buy scrap from the dumpsters (separate ones for mild, stainless, zirc, Ti, copper, etc) - IIRC, at that time mild scrap was $.05/lb, stainless was $.10...

If you can't find any locally, here's one source

ASTM A269-1 34 Stainless Steel Round Tube | Buy Online | Cut to Size | No Minimum Order

check out the price difference on different wall thickness - 16 ga. 1/2" tube is less than 18 ga. ??? so if you're not desperate for that last little bit of flow, it's cheaper and sturdier to go thicker wall...

Also, note that they will cut a 20' stick in half, should make shipping a little easier. Here's a gauge chart if you don't already have one... Steve

I'm second guessing my steel tubing purchase, after forming one tube and installing it last night, after my Grand daughter and daughter went to bed. I was under the impression it was .068 wall and it is really around .88 wall. Really cuts down on the volume flowing. Not sure if it will make me happy with thumb movement. We'll have to wait and see if I like the thumb speed as is. The lines on the excavator are 1 inch lines.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Xfaxman]

What is the thumb cylinder ID?

 

[BukitCase]

That tubing will give you about 12% more flow than the 3/8 thinner wall I have - but my grapple uses 2 cylinders (think they're 2") and your thumb uses one - plus, it'll close slower than it opens due to rod displacement (which is usually a GOOD thing) -

If you have any hoses you could TEMPORARILY hook up to the cylinder along with the tube you already did, you can see what it's gonna be without fabbing another line, cause THAT line will set the flow if everything else is bigger; then you'd know whether to "fish or cut bait"... Steve

 

[bindian]

What is the thumb cylinder ID?

The rod is 1.5 inches and the cylinder OD is 3.5 inches with a stroke of about 24 inches or less.
Hydraulic Excavator Thumb 14"x4" (HT144) - Gentec Equipment
hugs, Brandi

 

[Xfaxman]

Well according to my calculations (SWAG), it should be just perfect. :thumbsup:

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Or not. :thumbdown:

 

[bindian]

Well according to my calculations (SWAG), it should be just perfect. :thumbsup:

.
.
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.
Or not. :thumbdown:

When I installed the diverter and lines on the tractor, for the grapple, I made the lines one smaller than the Loader's existing lines....3/8th inch. Some folks even said 1/4 inch lines.

The existing lines on the CAT are approx. 1 inch or a little smaller 7/8th?). So 3/4 should have been one size smaller. I think 1/2 inch lines will do nicely, yet I was thinking thinner wall then I got. So I'll toss a quarter up in the air also.
hugs, Brandi
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[bindian]

Saturday and Sat. evening, I finished installing the bucket lines and ops checked. No leaks. Woopee! ...and the bucket moves at it's normal pace.

It took some time to get the hard line formed and clamped up. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/hydraulics/506946d1492933387-caterpillar-diverter-valve-cat-thumb-forward-line-clamp

Only to realize the hoses to the thumb are a tad short. I have male to female swivels ordered for both ends of the two hoses. As it is now, the aft line bend is up into the aft clamp.

I tapped a 10-32 hole in the thumb cylinder bracket for an adel clamp. I need to install a handful of them to clamp hoses together that are too close to each other. Figuring out the geometry where the clamps need to go was going well.....until I realized the hoses were a tad short.

I did away with the mocked up QDs and connected the hose right to the hard line's compression fittings. Just more fittings to return.
All that is left is the handful of clamps and wiring the switch to the valve, then leak check the thumb hoses and lines. That should be fun. Hopefully,....no leaks!

What does this remind you of. My Granddaughter says............"Octopush"
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

I got the thumb plumbing and wiring finished up Saturday evening. It valve was not working at first, but sanding on the fuse contacts fixed that. It moves faster than expected. I thought it would be so slow, I would have to change everything to 3/4 inch lines. All that plumbing and no leaks. I did plumb the thumb lines wrong. I had to swap them Sunday, as it was not intuitive closing the thumb with opposite control inputs than the bucket. Now I need to install a T for the relief valve, as it is now relieving the retract line.

Before I swapped the lines, the thumb would stay completely retracted. Now it bleds down. Not sure if the cylinder leaking internally or bucket control valve leaking internally. All cylinders on the CAT need to be rebuilt, so leaking internally will be ruled out. I'll know more after Teeing the relief valve into the correct hose.

hugs, Brandi

 

[Xfaxman]

:thumbsup: Good progress.

 

[bindian]

:thumbsup: Good progress.

Thanks!
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

I took the relief valve out this morning, and took it to my local hydraulic shop for them to (professionally) set the valve at 1800 psi..........for no charge. I asked him if I could plug one port and use just one hose to the valve. He said yes, so I reinstalled the valve, plugged one port and installed a T fitting to go to the line to the butt end of the cylinder. The thumb now stays retracted when I release the button and the controls are the way I like them. Also.........one less hose to worry about!
hugs, Brandi

 

[PAGUY]

Brandi, You are going to make some lucky guy a great mechanical partner.

 

[bindian]

Brandi, You are going to make some lucky guy a great mechanical partner.

Easter Sunday my daughter and Grand daughter went with me to a new Cowboy Church 12 miles from me. When we were picking up my Grand daughter from the nursery, after the service, a tall shadow in a cowboy hat came up and starting talking to me. He is the parts guy at the house trailer place I frequent for parts. He's sweet on me. When asked what I had been up to, I told him engineering a thumb for my CAT. He then said............."your such a MacGyver". Then he said we need to go out to eat sometime. So................maybe something there.............who knows!
hugs, Brandi