Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Chains for Snow

[Charles Billings]

Corm, I also live in VT and have a 1/4 mile of hilly driveway. The NH dealer that sold me the tractor said I should try front chains first, and if those didnt do the job to also go with rear chains. I have seen many entries on TBN advising against this. Does anyone know if any major tractor company voids warranites if you use front chains? If not, then why not use them?

 

[bpattie]

Why do you say it is bad to put tire chains on the front tires only?
Corm

I think the reason is the same reason (good or bad) that some say to not chain the front. The reason being that unless the front wheels can slip when you turn, especially sharp turns that you get wheel hop, and thus put undue stress/strain on the front end. Ever turn sharp in 4WD in a vehicle on dry pavement and feel the lurching?? Now in my opinion chaining the front either with the rear or front only is probably ok as long as the surface is slippery enough to allow the wheels to grab and yet turn at different ratios. In regards to chaining the front only, that just sounds odd to me. I would think if you were going to move up in gradual degrees of "chainness" (new word) that you would start with the rear. if you have bucket full of heavy snow or anything else it reduces rear traction not front, now maybe a front bucket full was not being factored in.

 

[Jstpssng]

Why do you say it is bad to put tire chains on the front tires only? I've been plowing snow on my steep 1/4 mile gravel driveway for 11 years now with tire chains only on my front tires (R4 tires). It works great, and really aids steering when the going is slippery. I put them on in the fall and remove them in the spring. I made them myself from old truck chains. Corm

Look at the size of your front differential, then go look at the size of your rear differential. keeping in mind that they enclose your gears, whichone do you want to work the hardest?

You're probably OK on a driveway, which is relatively SMOOTH. Besides the aforementioned turning what gets you in trouble is spinning and thrashing, with one wheel grabbing better traction then the other.

 

[Corm]

I had the same experience as Charles Billings when I bought my tractor in 1998, that is, my dealer suggested I try chains on the fronts first for plowing snow. His dealer is an NH dealer, mine is Cub Cadet. There you have two different dealers of two different tractors, suggesting to their customers they try chains on the front only for plowing snow. I doubt they would be doing that if they knew the 'mother company' would be voiding any warranties.

When I made up my chains, I made up sets for the front and the rear, but I've never used the rear ones. Never needed them. Until you try chains on the fronts only, you won't believe the extra traction they provide, along with the ability to steer your tractor in slippery conditions.

To the folks that are saying the rear differential is much larger (and much stronger) than the front, I completely agree. If I was moving gravel or stone in the summer months with my bucket, I sure wouldn't be using my chains (especially while in FWA mode) for just the reasons you've had indicated. However, we are talking about plowing snow. There is enough tire slip inherent with winter conditions that negate any worries I might have about overworking the front end. I have a friend that has a JD about the same size as my tractor. After seeing how well my setup worked, we made up a set of chains for the front tires on his tractor. He has been using that setup for 10 years now, with no problems.

Sorry for the long reply, but I thought I'd share with you folks the benefit of my personal experience. As always, your mileage may vary...

Corm

 

[bpattie]

I suppose it depends some on the area of the country you are in also. my dealer stresses not to chain the front unless you have to. But here in Colorado where the snow, at least outside of the mountains, does not hang around long.....normally. so the chains may be helpful one day clearing snow (and not be harmful) and in a couple days I am driving on drive hard ground again (where it may be putting stress on front end). In Vermont and Maine your snow likely stays around longer or all Winter. Dealer may be making recommendations based on the average local conditions.

 

[Egon]

Anyone consider the size of the front to the rear tires when thinking about stresses placed on them?

 

[Gil Case]

I have not gone through this whole thread, but my experience is that a rear snow blower is pretty cheap. Maybe $1000 or less used, $2,000 new. I have a 3-400 feet of driveway (11% grade) and I never needed chains with my turf tires. Scraping that driveway with a bucket is a thankless task because you only go a few feet and the bucket is full and the snow is falling off the sides and you have to go back again. With a blower, that snow is gone, gone. If you have to invest in chains you are better off using that money to get a used rear blower on the cheap.

 

[JDGreenGrass]

I have not gone through this whole thread, but my experience is that a rear snow blower is pretty cheap. Maybe $1000 or less used, $2,000 new. I have a 3-400 feet of driveway (11% grade) and I never needed chains with my turf tires. Scraping that driveway with a bucket is a thankless task because you only go a few feet and the bucket is full and the snow is falling off the sides and you have to go back again. With a blower, that snow is gone, gone. If you have to invest in chains you are better off using that money to get a used rear blower on the cheap.[/QUOTE]


Hey Gil, if you can find me a rear blower for $1,000 or less, let me know.

 

[some zilch]

I have not gone through this whole thread, but my experience is that a rear snow blower is pretty cheap. Maybe $1000 or less used, $2,000 new. I have a 3-400 feet of driveway (11% grade) and I never needed chains with my turf tires. Scraping that driveway with a bucket is a thankless task because you only go a few feet and the bucket is full and the snow is falling off the sides and you have to go back again. With a blower, that snow is gone, gone. If you have to invest in chains you are better off using that money to get a used rear blower on the cheap.

i didnt know CT was known for its regular heavy snowfalls, constant ice, etc. turf tires wouldnt cut it unless all i did waas mow the lawn around here......

Again, find me a $1000 rear blower


here in central ny, we can get some serious snow. last year today we got 26" of wet heavy snow. several years ago we got 49" in one storm, i could not see the hood of my cummins powered 4x4 dodge. i have ring chains on the rear of my ag tired, L4400. i can do most of my plowing in 2wd, and am not afraid to brake-steer. i can easily push snow that is hood-level in 2wd. i only use 4x4 when extra icy.

 

[Jstpssng]

i didnt know CT was known for its regular heavy snowfalls, constant ice, etc. turf tires wouldnt cut it unless all i did waas mow the lawn around here......

Again, find me a $1000 rear blower


here in central ny, we can get some serious snow. last year today we got 26" of wet heavy snow. several years ago we got 49" in one storm, i could not see the hood of my cummins powered 4x4 dodge. i have ring chains on the rear of my ag tired, L4400. i can do most of my plowing in 2wd, and am not afraid to brake-steer. i can easily push snow that is hood-level in 2wd. i only use 4x4 when extra icy.

just curious, what do you consider Central NY? For several years I spent a month or so each year working around the Cranberry Lakes, Potsdam, or Boonsville areas. Beautiful areas, at least until us tourists showed up .

i was never there in the winter but they said that up around Tug Hill they wouldn't even cut wood in the winter because of the Great Lake effect. Guys would cut a twitch in the morning, and it would be buried by nightfall.

 

[smfcpacfp]

If you are going to consider blowing, then you are unlikely to need chains. I helped out a friend of mine who had a 20% grade and when I started the job, I found that I couldn't blow up the hill,the tractor would just slide sideways. You can see my rig below. I thought, "oh s%$# what am I going to do" since I promised his wife I would do it, and I always honor my promises. Well I just drove the tractor up the hill with the blower up and was able to snowblow downhill with no difficulties

You said you gave up snowblowing because you were using a "walk behind". A front blower with some kind of protection from the elements will convert a chore into a pleasureable task. I love to snowblow. It costs a little more to have the front blower, but it is worth it.

 

[tatra805]

Another thing to consider regarding chains on the front is the fact that in many cases the front wheels have a higher ground speed than the back ones in 4x4 on tractors. (try it out on dry pavement in a straight line and you will see the markings of the front wheels)

Now, this is done to aid steering. Otherwise your front wheels risk being pushed forward by the back wheel traction in slippery conditions. (and one of the reasons on hard pavement it is a bad thing to leave your 4x4 engaged)

Just picture it as the front axle pulling the rest of the tractor in the direction the front wheels aim while the back axle is there for straight forward traction.

Another benefit of this is that with a blocked rear differential you still have steering possibilities whereas in the other case your back traction would just push you forward with no steering as eg with 4x4 vehicles equiped with a locker in the back.

Now, this all put extra stress on the drivetrain etc etc BUT chains will not break things. AG tires in soft ground have much more bite than a chain on ice or snow.

Btw, alldrive systems as audi quatro etc al require chains in the front prior to putting them on the back wheels just and only to increase safety by adding steering traction and abs functionality in curves.

just my 2 cents

 

[Johndeere3720]

This winter, I plan to use my Yanmar 169D and rear blade to move snow. I know I will need chains but im not sure weather to get them on the front of the back tires. The rear tires are loaded with calcium.

 

[Charles Billings]

Smfcpacfp, I agree with you that a snow blower reduces the need for chains, because you are not relying on traction to push the snow. New snow generally provides pretty good traction when all the tractor needs to do is move the snowblower, not push the snow. However, my experience has been that once auto traffic packs the snow, and it goes through a few freeze-thaw cyles, that it becomes more like ice. Then, new snow on this ice pack becomes very slippery. That is when I want/need some help with chains, even with my snow blower. If you can sand the ice pack, then I would agree that you wouldn't really need chains. In fact I do call in the local guy to sand when things get too bad, but the chains let me handle most situations. P.S. Like your cab--it must make snow enjoyable compared with my open-to-the-weather situation.

 

[Gil Case]

For those skeptics out there, this came up on the first page if you search for 3pt snowblowers.

Snowblower, 3 Pt. - $1200 (Frankfort) - Frankfort 49635
Frankfort 49635
snowblower, 2 stage, 3 pt., hydraulic shute controll location: frankfort it's not ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
craigslist - 2009/10/24

Ebay

3 POINT SNOWBLOWER
HEAVY DUTY PTO DRIVEN SNOWBLOWER
Location: Minnesota

Watch this item
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$665.00

 

[smfcpacfp]

Smfcpacfp, I agree with you that a snow blower reduces the need for chains, because you are not relying on traction to push the snow. New snow generally provides pretty good traction when all the tractor needs to do is move the snowblower, not push the snow. However, my experience has been that once auto traffic packs the snow, and it goes through a few freeze-thaw cyles, that it becomes more like ice. Then, new snow on this ice pack becomes very slippery. That is when I want/need some help with chains, even with my snow blower. If you can sand the ice pack, then I would agree that you wouldn't really need chains. In fact I do call in the local guy to sand when things get too bad, but the chains let me handle most situations. P.S. Like your cab--it must make snow enjoyable compared with my open-to-the-weather situation.

We don't get many freeze / thaw cycles, and most of our snowfalls occur in very cold weather. However I have blown snow on an icy base and had no problems, but my driveway is very flat and the new snow digs in a bit to create adequate grip. I definitely do understand that in some situatuations that chains are needed.

If you look at my old Kimpex blower mounted on my ATV, I did need chains. My rear tires are filled on my Kubota, so I have some additional weight here.

 

[mike194]

for like $100 bucks i would just buy some chains and try them out. alot of times when i used and angled rear blade the snow would pull my rear end over and sometimes off the road. 4 link chains can be a little rough riding but they are the cheapest. Tirechains.com is a pretty good deal.

 

[csquared63]

This is a great thread. I'm very curious to see how my recently acquired JD 790 (R4s no chains) does with the 60" front blade on snow. I have a rear ballast box which I'll use at about 500 lbs., but what about front weights? The blade weighs about 400 lbs. My tires are not filled. Our driveway has a slight slope, but nothing too great.

Both my neighbors have turf tires (no chains) on their NH's and use the FELs on similarly-sloped driveways, but I've heard from several 'tractor' people that a plow blade beats a FEL every time for efficient snow removal.

 

[LBrown59]

1*Sounds like having a blade and a bucket is a good set-up. I'm going to go with that for this year.

2*Does the blade need to come off the tractor to change from push to pull, or does it swivel 360 degrees on the tractor.??

1*

2*Not with this arrangement .
I don't need chains for this either.

 

[HardlyWarcane]

Question: If your going to but a blade on the 3-pt hitch what are you going to do about weight? Your wood box is gone!
I got an old 45 gal drum ,built a 3-pt mount.
I then walked into a cement plant with two boxes of dounuts and asked how much to fill the drum with cement, the guy sitting at the scale controls said drop the drum over there and the dounuts in the lunch room over there and come back tomorrow with a way of moving about 800lbs -if you'd like that drum full.
Know not every one knows how to weld or has a welder handy, but after telling my story. I've done the welding for two other guys that came to me with some bit's of steel and an empty drum and now I'm up two boxes of dounut's ... get the picture!
I have balast in my rear tires and Kal tire (Canada) has a new prosses of pressure injecting a rubber compound into your front tires that stays plyable and with the right amount of psi ,so that the tires work like normall but weight is about 100 plus per tire ... I'll never get another flat!
With all that weight front and rear and my 4 in 1 bucket with it's leveling rod (witch is so easy to make also)I've never dug into my gravel drive yet!
Know - I got luck and found a cheap 59" front mount JD blower that if I can make it work on the front I'll change over ,but other wise.
Sorry ...this is way to long a message!