CK25 will not start

[econ99]

I have a starting issue with my CK25 tractor. Seems to be fuel related. Fuel is being pumped past the filter. However, does not make it to the injection lines. Cracked them to check. I removed the fuel cutoff selenoid and the plunger moves back and forth freely. It also clicks when ignition key is turned to start.

Could the fuel cutoff plunger be disengaging cause of some other type of circuit or relay. The reason I ask is the positive battery connection was flaky for a bit of time. Being a lazy arse I would simple move the terminal around until it had a good connection. Also noticed that I would have to wiggle the key and be careful on how much I turned the key otherwise the tractor would shut off. I since replaced the battery terminal and when turning the key now all the lights light as should be. Wondering if there is something electrical that could have been messed up that affected the fuel shutoff.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

Make sure I understand you correctly. No fuel at injectors, correct? If so follow these directions. Becareful because if it starts and runs wide open you can over rev your engine.

Disconnect fuel shut off solenoid. Check movement of fuel shutoff linkage. If it appears to be working, try to start without solenoid hooked up. If it still will not start, you may have the injection pump frozen in the off position. Which is better than wide open. If you are unsure take to your local dealer and he/she can check for you.

Sorry while on my phone I cannot see locations. We are in Virginia and repaired many fuel issues.

 

[econ]

Yes that is correct no fuel at the injectors.

So disconnect the solenoid meaning unbolt and remove the shut off selnoid. Then try starting correct? Or, disconnect the electrical leads to the solenoid?

thanks so much for the reply.

 

[grsthegreat]

do you get any fuel at the fuel injector bleed port?

 

[econ]

Honestly, I am not sure where that port is. I will look tomorrow and try. Look at a line after the fuel filter and that was pumping fuel. Also, cracked the nuts at the injector ports and that had nothing.

Thanks

 

[grsthegreat]

on my dh45, its right where the fuel line enters the injector. Usually when you replace the fuel filter you have to bleed the air out thru this fitting after installing the new filter.

If fuel is flowing there, but not in the injector ports, the plastic ram inside the injector that is controlled by the stop solenoid may be stuck.

when you remove the solenoid can you move the plastic ram (located inside the injector pump) in and out??

 

[1wheeler1]

My CK25 will sometimes die if I don't hold a little pressure clockwise after starting. I think a bad ignition switch can cause the fuel solenoid to shut off or never engage. I've sprayed contact cleaner in the keyhole and worked the key back and forth and the problem will be fixed for a while. Replacement switch is about $55 when I checked. Might try some cleaner and working that switch a bit.

 

[LaVoie Equipment]

Yes that is correct no fuel at the injectors.

So disconnect the solenoid meaning unbolt and remove the shut off selnoid. Then try starting correct? Or, disconnect the electrical leads to the solenoid?

thanks so much for the reply.

Yes try starting. You can disconnect leads but it is easier to check rack movement with solenoid removed. Becareful, I cannot stress that enough.

If it starts, and runs normally, something is wrong with your solenoid or linkage.

If it will not start or does start and runs wide open, your injection pump has failed.

 

[Coyote machine]

IF it starts and runs wide open be prepared to shut it down as fast as possible. This may mean having to starve it of both fuel and air, because when this happens and the solenoid is disconnected you can't use the key to turn off the engine.
I'm not certain whether you could shut it off by disconnecting the battery ground terminal or not- but maybe someone who knows can chime in.

 

[econ]

Thanks for all the great tips.

I disconnected the selnoid and tried starting. The ramrod of the selenoid does retract when the key is turned. However, even with selenoid detached it would not start. Reattached the selenoid and cracked 2 of the injector lines above the pump housing nothing seen when trying to start.

So, looks like the pump. Can the pump just not be primed with fuel or do you think the pump is shot? Any other troubleshooting I can do?

Thanks.

 

[grsthegreat]

after the solenoid is removed, did you try pulling back the plastic insert inside the fuel injector pump??? see if its stuck

 

[econ]

I did feel that plastic insert and it seemed to move freely. I did not purposely pull on it just moved it trying to figure out what it was. I will look at that more closely.

thanks

 

[VictorW]

If you are on the right side of the tractor, looking at the injector pump, the lever coming out of the "side" of the IP, that the solenoid activates, should be all the way forward to turn on the fuel. Or another way to look at it is the shaft coming out of the "side" of the IP, that the lever is attached to, should be rotated all the way "clockwise" for fuel on. You should be able to move it by hand back and forth. The lever on "top" of the IP is the throttle. This should move by the throttle control at the dash or with your hand.

You had advised you have fuel flowing up to the IP. This flow would be supplied by the fuel/lift pump that is located between the tank and filter and is mounted to the right side of the engine to the left and below the filter. It's about 2 1/2" dia. with about eight little screws on it's flat end. It's not much of a fuel flow but the fuel will flow. With the steel injector lines cracked at the top of the IP, as you did, and the IP fuel shut off lever all the way in the fuel on position, the cranking should prime the IP and push fuel out of where you cracked the connections at the top of the IP. If you can get fuel there, tighten these, then crack open the steel lines at the injectors to purge any air from the steel lines. If nothing comes out of the steel lines you cracked open, it seems like the IP is gone.

As mentioned, if it does start up at wide open throttle, you're going to have starve it of fuel or air to stop it. Disconnecting the battery won't stop it. Diesels just need fuel, air, and compression to run once they are started.

 

[grsthegreat]

the plastic insert is what controls whether any fuel flows thru the pump. The solenoid pushes it (to shut off fuel flow) and the spring loaded (start spring) forces it back open. If the internal plastic plunger is stuck, it will prevent fuel from flowing thru fuel injector pump.

Im not talking about the plunger on the stop solenoid, im referring to the internal white plastic plunger

With that internal insert, if the stop solenoid is removed, the insert should be pushed out towards the hole that the stop solenoid is installed in. You should be able to lightly push it back in. This would be simulating what the stop solenoid is doing to stop the engine. When you turn on the key, the stop solenoid retracts and allows this internal plunger to expand...thus allowing fuel into the Injector pump.

also, did you ever try to bleed the pump??

 

[econ]

grsthegreat:

The plastic plunger moves freely back and forth. However, when the solenoid is removed it is not push out as if it were spring loaded. I would have to manually move it with my fingers which I did. No I have not tried bleeding the pump. How is that done?

Victor W:

Not sure what the lever coming out the side is. The throttle is easily indentified since it has cables going back the the foot petal and hand lever. The other lever you are referring to I do not make out. There is a lever on top of the pump near towards the solenoid. This lever is spring control and is always up against a metal stop. I assumed this was some sort of manual fuel cut off. I will try to take a pic tomorrow of the set up.


Thank you both.

 

[VictorW]

The engine stop lever I was talking about is #11 in the link's picture and the shaft is #8. The picture has you looking at it from the left front of the tractor.

OEM Parts

 

[econ]

Thanks pictures always helps. Mine looks like the ENGINE STOP LEVER GROUP 3A165LXB-E160 diagram. Part #14 is the stop lever which is the one that I described as being on top and with spring tension resting against a metal stop.


thanks

 

[grsthegreat]

If you pull the lever out by hand, can you start the tractor??? mind you you will have to push the plunger back in to stop it.

 

[econ]

If you mean part #21 (the plastic guide), yes I have tried pulling it out with finger and starting. Still no go.

OEM Parts

 

[grsthegreat]

Here are the instructions for bleeding on the DK series injectors, but ive been told the CK are the same.

The line drawing on 1st picture shows the bleeding bolt . There are also step by step bleeding instructions

Hope this helps

in 3.5.2 (Page 4) theres a step by step list how the stop solenoid functions.