CK25 will not start

grsthegreat · Jan 8, 2012

econ said:
If you mean part #21 (the plastic guide), yes I have tried pulling it out with finger and starting. Still no go.

OEM Parts

When you remove the stop solenoid, that plastic lever SHOULD be pushed out towards the hole where the stop solenoid was located. this is the only way that the fuel injector can get fuel. If it isnt pushed out, then something is binding inside the injector pump preventing this rod from pushing out.

If one of the injector pump elements (gears and plungers, etc) are frozen, this will prevent the control rack (control rod) from sliding and allowing fuel to flow....this would be bad news. I had this happen once and had to replace the fuel injector pump. Is yours still under warranty???

econ · Jan 8, 2012

Well that does not sound good. Unfortunately, it is not under warranty.

DK35vince · Jan 8, 2012

Do a search in the "Kioti owning operating section".
I think I remember reading something about the EPA mandates Mfg's supply a 5 year warranty on fuel systems.

grsthegreat · Jan 8, 2012

i think all fuel injector pumps have a 5 year warranty thru EPA requirements i believe.. but not sure exactly.

grsthegreat · Jan 8, 2012

DK35vince said:
Do a search in the "Kioti owning operating section".
I think I remember reading something about the EPA mandates Mfg's supply a 5 year warranty on fuel systems.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...9136-fuel-injector-pump-covered-warranty.html

VictorW · Jan 9, 2012

Econ, sorry for my explanation in the earlier post of the lever and rod. Your CK25 IP setup is different than my CK30hst by the diagram up posted. I thought they would be the same. What year is yours? Mine is 2004. I hope something is just bound up and not bottoms up.

econ · Jan 9, 2012

VictorW: No problem. Mine is around the same time. I have to go look at the original purchase agreement.

This might be a silly question, but how do these pump run. They do not seem to be belt driven. Are they electric? If so, could a drained battery not supply enough energy for it to function even off a jump from a Suburban?

Going to take battery in tonight to get tested and potentially purchase a new one.

Thanks.

grsthegreat · Jan 9, 2012

If its exactly like mine, they run off of an engine run camshaft . no belts.

econ · Jan 9, 2012

Battery tested bad. Replaced. Still no go. Bleed the line up to the bleeding bolt. Then tried at the inject lines. Still no go.

Looks like the tractor sits till I can save up money for a new $800 injector pump. ugh.

Thanks everyone for your help.

grsthegreat · Jan 9, 2012

econ said:
Battery tested bad. Replaced. Still no go. Bleed the line up to the bleeding bolt. Then tried at the inject lines. Still no go.

Looks like the tractor sits till I can save up money for a new $800 injector pump. ugh.

Thanks everyone for your help.

you can pull the injector pump and see if one of the injectors is jambed... but personally is contqct Kioti and see if they can cover the pump under the mandnitory 5 year EPA warranty that injector pumps are supposed to be covered with.... or so a few people are claiming here.

econ · Jan 9, 2012

Unfortunately, the tractor is over 5 years old. It's a shame that the pump was not a recall item since they knew it was faulty.

Might take it apart to see if anything there is obvious.

thanks

grsthegreat · Jan 9, 2012

econ said:
Unfortunately, the tractor is over 5 years old. It's a shame that the pump was not a recall item since they knew it was faulty.

Might take it apart to see if anything there is obvious.

thanks

is not that their faulty..... i have seen injector pumps fail on alot of different pieces of equipment.

I also saw a brand new Bosch pump fail immediately after it was installed.

I just dont understand why there that expensive myself...

Their pretty easy to replace....but if you look at one closely they look like they should cost about $100.00
I mean an old Holly Carb was WAY more intricate.

econ · Jan 9, 2012

good to know that they are not too difficult to replace. I will invest in a service manual then tackle taking it apart. Hopefully, I can find something. Otherwise I'll start putting money in the piggy bank for a new one.

Thanks again.

Gittyup · Jan 9, 2012

Some were defective (on certain model years), and Kioti knows it. They had brittle gears in them. New design changed to better alloy gears. I'd at least ask about it. they might at least help you out on cost.

letoke · Mar 3, 2012

My ck30 wouldn't start one morning, looked at these threads and didn't want to believe it could be my injector pump. Replaced my fuel pump, but still wouldn't start and still had no fuel to injectors. Took a deep breath and decided to bite the bullet and order the pump $800+. Took a deeper breath and tore into the engine, wasn't too bad, I downloaded a service manuel (free). When I got the pump out the rack was jambed with something?, I worked it back and forth and freed it up but used the NEW pump just to be sure, Started it up today and it runs great! Saved myself some money, nearest dealer is 4 hours away now. Not a hard fix, just frustrating as most of the nuts are hard to access at 1/8 turn at a time.

econ99 · Jul 13, 2012

Well still have not started the CK25 yet. I had no time to work on it extensively just a 1/2 hour here and there. The latest is that I can get fuel up to one cracked line at the cylinder head. Can't get the others. Odd thing is that at the top of the injector pump if I crack the not on the line (#2 in the picture) I get nothing. If, I crack the nut closets to the pump housing (#1 in the picture) I get fuel gushing out. Tighten everything up and crack the nut at the cylinder head...nothing.

So my guess is that the pump is ok and it's just a matter of finding the best way of bleeding these things.

sherrym · Jul 13, 2012

econ99 said:
Well still have not started the CK25 yet. I had no time to work on it extensively just a 1/2 hour here and there. The latest is that I can get fuel up to one cracked line at the cylinder head. Can't get the others. Odd thing is that at the top of the injector pump if I crack the not on the line (#2 in the picture) I get nothing. If, I crack the nut closets to the pump housing (#1 in the picture) I get fuel gushing out. Tighten everything up and crack the nut at the cylinder head...nothing.

So my guess is that the pump is ok and it's just a matter of finding the best way of bleeding these things.

View attachment 273170

I am having the same problem with a dk45s and after reading and looking at diagrams/pictures of the injector pump (ip), it appears that fuel from the fuel line that goes in at the bleed bolt area will put fuel in a fuel chamber in the ip. Until the pump rack inside the ip rotates a gear to move a plunger(with groove) to line up with a hole in the ip fuel chamber you will not get fuel to be pushed into the injector line(#2 in your picture). I believe the fuel you are getting close to ip housing is just fuel from ip fuel chamber which does not mean your pump is working, but could mean it is not working. Others who know more than I should also comment before you rule ip failure.

Hope this has not discouraged you i am only trying to pass on what I think I have learned so far.
Hope it is just air

ritcheyvs · Jul 14, 2012

econ99 said:
Well still have not started the CK25 yet. I had no time to work on it extensively just a 1/2 hour here and there. The latest is that I can get fuel up to one cracked line at the cylinder head. Can't get the others. Odd thing is that at the top of the injector pump if I crack the not on the line (#2 in the picture) I get nothing. If, I crack the nut closets to the pump housing (#1 in the picture) I get fuel gushing out. Tighten everything up and crack the nut at the cylinder head...nothing.

So my guess is that the pump is ok and it's just a matter of finding the best way of bleeding these things.

View attachment 273170

Between #1 and #2 in your picture is the delivery valve which acts as a check valve and also opens only when pressure exceeds a threshold. In operation, it ensures that the IP plunger will suck new fuel from the filter on the downstroke vs sucking fuel out of the pipe that feeds the injector. The fact that fuel comes out from #1 tells you that you do have fuel coming from the lift pump into the IP. The fact that you don't have fuel coming out #2 means either you have air in the IP (unlikely) or your IP (at least the associated plunger) is not pumping. You may have the same problem as sherrym. But the fact you get fuel at one of three injectors makes me think your IP has stripped gear and/or rack teeth corresponding to the "dry" injectors.

Try operating the manual fuel shutoff to see if you can feel the IP rack move; try this with ignition key both off and on. If you can feel the rack move (i.e. it's not jammed) and you get no fuel at the top of the delivery valves while cranking it's probably your injection pump (IP). The good news is it isn't hard to replace. The bad news is the part (IP) costs over $1k). These things should never fail (IMO) but it seems failure is common; maybe you and your dealer can embarrass Kioti into sharing some of the cost?

sherrym · Jul 14, 2012

ritcheyvs said:
Between #1 and #2 in your picture is the delivery valve which acts as a check valve and also opens only when pressure exceeds a threshold. In operation, it ensures that the IP plunger will suck new fuel from the filter on the downstroke vs sucking fuel out of the pipe that feeds the injector. The fact that fuel comes out from #1 tells you that you do have fuel coming from the lift pump into the IP. The fact that you don't have fuel coming out #2 means either you have air in the IP (unlikely) or your IP (at least the associated plunger) is not pumping. You may have the same problem as sherrym. But the fact you get fuel at one of three injectors makes me think your IP has stripped gear and/or rack teeth corresponding to the "dry" injectors.

Try operating the manual fuel shutoff to see if you can feel the IP rack move; try this with ignition key both off and on. If you can feel the rack move (i.e. it's not jammed) and you get no fuel at the top of the delivery valves while cranking it's probably your injection pump (IP). The good news is it isn't hard to replace. The bad news is the part (IP) costs over $1k). These things should never fail (IMO) but it seems failure is common; maybe you and your dealer can embarrass Kioti into sharing some of the cost?

thanks Scott for clearing that up. After i looked at section in EX45 about timing i saw where fuel at that site was not fuel from the fuel chamber but as you said a delivery valve. Will try to be more careful next time before comment.
I wonder if i should check fuel at delivery valve site also, we have only checked it at nut at injector line 1 above delivery valve nut?

ritcheyvs · Jul 14, 2012

It's best not to unscrew delivery valves unless you really need to. They can be touchy and may not reseal correctly.

Also, it won't tell you much. If the plunger/gear is in the fuel cutoff position the vertical slot in the plunger aligns with the feed hole allowing fuel to flow right past the plunger (under pressure from the lift pump). But lift pump pressure is way less than what's required to open the delivery valve.