Desperately need to fix driveway

[Snobdds]

LoL...ditches are not the surrounding terrain...duh...! like I said if the road was higher there would be no need for ditches (in many cases)...

You build the road then cut the ditches...you don't dig the ditches and then build the road up higher...LoL...!

I spent 40+ years as a GC...educational background was a plus but never certed as a CE...late in life I went back and studied computer science (UNIX system admin)....what I've learned about AI has mostly been from reading and listening to lectures

Not surrounding terrain? Does surrounding terrain even matter beyond the ditches?

So all your tale of being an AI expert is just from reading? Gotcha.

 

[CoyPatton]

"Crusher run" (usually defined as 3/4" minus) packs tightly together and is what works best.
"Creek gravel" is small rounded stones, and will not stay in place!

Glad you agree on creek gravel!

I agree crusher run holds together best.
However having had those sloping curves (please go back and look at OP’s photos post #1), I have watched the fines in my crusher run, wash right down the slope with running water, this after it was compacted. Reality is reality!

 

[/pine]

Not surrounding terrain? Does surrounding terrain even matter beyond the ditches?

So all your tale of being an AI expert is just from reading? Gotcha.

You really should take your own advise and read more slowly...!

The replies I was referencing stated that the road bed needed building up...it's much easier to lower the ditches...like I said you don't cut the ditches and then build the road up...!

About the surrounding terrain being significant...it does when the grades determine where the controlled water (ditches etc.) can be "turned loose" ...

Whether you realize it or not...true AI is still at least a decade away...what you refer to as AI is like the analog version of artificial intelligence...The first true quantum computers are still at least ten years away...

BTW...There are bots swarming the Internet that are 10 times more sophisticated than IBM's watson...!

 

[fried1765]

Glad you agree on creek gravel!

I agree crusher run holds together best.
However having had those sloping curves (please go back and look at OP’s photos post #1), I have watched the fines in my crusher run, wash right down the slope with running water, this after it was compacted. Reality is reality!

My solution to the fines being washed away on a slope was to grade with my rear blade, and fold the larger crushed gravel pieces into the areas tending to wash out.

 

[CoyPatton]

My solution to the fines being washed away on a slope was to grade with my rear blade, and fold the larger crushed gravel pieces into the areas tending to wash out.

And my point which again you agree with is there is no easy fix it and leave it with the slopes and run off, it will have ti be touched up from time to time. With a low rider vehicle, the interval will not be long term during heavy rains.

 

[DaveD1944]

Try lengthening the top link all the way so the box blade rides on the rear blade only.

Bruce, this is standard practice and I did this many years ago when I was trying to make the box scraper work, but it made no difference--the box still filled up with gravel. Yesterday I removed the scarifier shanks, the front-facing blade, and the hinged rear gate, slightly over 150 lbs. total, tilted it all the way back with the top link fully extended, lowered it to the ground in float mode with only the rear-facing blade in use, and it still dug in deeply and collected massive amounts of gravel in the box.

As described by Land Pride in their user's manuals, the box scraper is made to move lots of material from place to place. If I could control the height of the box scraper with the 3-point hitch controls it might work. But every part of my driveway and especially the part that needs the most maintenance is either a convex or concave curve of varying radius, and the only thing that will work is allowing the implement, whatever it is, to float on the gravel surface.

Coming to terms with what I need to do to make this less work as I grow older, I am seriously thinking now of a grader scraper. It is made to float on its skids and would have to be used that way. But from several threads in TractorByNet I gather that these are also not without their problems, especially with loose gravel, so I need to research further.

If I need to go much farther with this I may start another thread. TractorByNet has several on the subject, but they are getting old and don't answer all of the concerns I have, and I find this forum to be very helpful.

A photo of the most difficult part of the drive, the ~350 ft. over a drainage area, is attached. The drop to the drain pipe is about 12 feet, so washout was a problem with heavy rains and a crusher run surface until I had it re-graveled, and the heavier gravel stopped the erosion completely, but it moves about more freely.



Thanks for your help, Dave Dalton

 

[/pine]

If a box blade is still cutting aggressively moving forward with the top link fully extended...something is wrong... likely too short of top link...

BTW...the 3PH is always in float...there is no need to detent a T&T cylinder into float....

 

[deezler]

Here's my recent thread about wanting a land-plane scraper, and being advised by forum members to try extending the top link and using my box blade instead.

Poor man (ok, cheap sob) wants a land plane grader/scraper

Hey folks. Seeking some TBN wisdom on a land plane. We built our house in 2015 and ended up with around a 1000' of gravel driveway. I put in most of the driveway base myself by hauling many a dump trailer load of 2-3" crushed concrete, and getting deliveries of similar sized limestone. Since...

www.tractorbynet.com

Long story short, it mostly worked. You need to get the box blade tipped wayyyy back, so that the front facing blade doesn't scrape much at all, and so that the sides dont hold material.

 

[CoyPatton]

Using the rear blade on a box scraper can have the desired effect mentioned, but can be difficult to obtain as many times the top link will not extend enough to obtain the desired effect.
When you think about it, often people want to shorten a TL to get the most aggressiveness from the BB scarifiers, thus they end up with a short TL and can not obtain the desired effect.
The desired effect might be simpler with a rear blade reversed. The length of the TL can have an effect on the results but much less drastically. This was often my go to for a quick dress up. Basic blades can usually be found on marketplace. Price varies widely with width, condition and functions. If you want an offset tilting blade, they will be less common, less availability, and cost more. If you want a simple reversal blade they are usually readily available and reasonably price varying usually by age and condition.

 

[fried1765]

Here's my recent thread about wanting a land-plane scraper, and being advised by forum members to try extending the top link and using my box blade instead.

Poor man (ok, cheap sob) wants a land plane grader/scraper

Hey folks. Seeking some TBN wisdom on a land plane. We built our house in 2015 and ended up with around a 1000' of gravel driveway. I put in most of the driveway base myself by hauling many a dump trailer load of 2-3" crushed concrete, and getting deliveries of similar sized limestone. Since...

www.tractorbynet.com

Long story short, it mostly worked. You need to get the box blade tipped wayyyy back, so that the front facing blade doesn't scrape much at all, and so that the sides dont hold material.

A box blade is absolutely not the proper tool for driveway maintenance!
A box blade simply cannot properly bring material back to the center that has migrated to the driveway edges.
A rear scrape blade is the proper driveway maintenance tool!

That driveway looks decent, but should definitely have more fines to help hold it together, to lessen surface material migration.

 

[deezler]

A box blade is absolutely not the proper tool for driveway maintenance!
A box blade simply cannot properly bring material back to the center that has migrated to the driveway edges.
A rear scrape blade is the proper driveway maintenance tool!

That driveway looks decent, but should definitely have more fines to help hold it together, to lessen surface material migration.

Lol fried, you are so passionate against Box blades and for rear scraper blades as driveway maintainers. I use both, and you are absolutely right that the box blade can't re-shape the crown. But it does a nice refresh and smoothing of washboards, etc.

And NO, I don't want any fines, thanks. Everyone's driveway with fines that I see here locally, or even here on TBN, is a mess of muddy pot holes. Fines don't allow drainage. I don't mind re-working my driveway a few times per year to avoid the muddy water splash of a driveway with fines. I never have to use scarifiers to break it up, either.

 

[zzvyb6]

Except a blade doesn't comb out driveway content you'd rather not have there. All it does is drag piles of gravel. You need gauge wheels and no rigid top link to do this maintenance. Otherwise you get a roller coaster as the tractor dips and rises and carves out humps and valleys. Seldom do you see gauge wheels on a scraper blade. Always available with a landscape rake. But it depends on what is acceptable driveway quality. If you like an irregular roller coaster, sure use the blade. Cheaper, too, because owners give up trying to make a smooth driveway and just about give them away (usually bent, too, because they don't 'give').

 

[K5lwq]

If you are getting a humps and valleys using a rear blade on a driveway you are doing something wrong. I have put in many drives and a few runways for airplanes using nothing but a rear blade without a gauge wheel.

 

[fried1765]

Lol fried, you are so passionate against Box blades and for rear scraper blades as driveway maintainers. I use both, and you are absolutely right that the box blade can't re-shape the crown. But it does a nice refresh and smoothing of washboards, etc.

And NO, I don't want any fines, thanks. Everyone's driveway with fines that I see here locally, or even here on TBN, is a mess of muddy pot holes. Fines don't allow drainage. I don't mind re-working my driveway a few times per year to avoid the muddy water splash of a driveway with fines. I never have to use scarifiers to break it up, either.

Why am I "so passionate against box blades"?
Because I have one that I bought new, 7 years ago,..... and have never used.
I maintained a 2000' gravel driveway for 17 years with a cheap 5' TSC rear blade.
I then bought a 7' KK rear blade, because it had a greater reach at angle.
I then bought the 5' KK box blade... that I have never used (it looks nice sitting in my barn though).
I have most recently used a 6' EA Deluxe Scrape Blade, which is absolutely the cat's axx.

Have you ever seen a road construction crew using a box blade for grading/shaping?
A box blade is intended for moving material, not shaping road surface material.
Egon, in post #35 outlines this grading issue best of all!

 

[fried1765]

If you are getting a humps and valleys using a rear blade on a driveway you are doing something wrong. I have put in many drives and a few runways for airplanes using nothing but a rear blade without a gauge wheel.

Agreed!
Problem is that some who buy the rear blade are not willing, or able, to train themselves on proper use.
There is a learning curve for using a rear blade.

 

[/pine]

A man who has mastered the box blade is like the man that can catch a fly with chop sticks...He can do anything...!

Box blades are dynamic GRADING tools...it's what they do...their only imperfection is the lack of ability to angle...

many operators do not get the desired results after the first few attempts and give up...there is a learning curve...conquer it and be proud...

About the only time you see even a full sized tractor on a commercial road building job is doing the final clean up and maybe grass seeding after the actual job is done...
box blades and rear blades are implements made for tractors that emulate what the big boys use...

 

[deezler]

Except a blade doesn't comb out driveway content you'd rather not have there. All it does is drag piles of gravel. You need gauge wheels and no rigid top link to do this maintenance. Otherwise you get a roller coaster as the tractor dips and rises and carves out humps and valleys. Seldom do you see gauge wheels on a scraper blade. Always available with a landscape rake. But it depends on what is acceptable driveway quality. If you like an irregular roller coaster, sure use the blade. Cheaper, too, because owners give up trying to make a smooth driveway and just about give them away (usually bent, too, because they don't 'give').

Nah. Gauge wheels aren't necessary. Nice to have? sure, maybe. But absolutely not required. The 3-pt hitch doesn't have down pressure, so you toss the attachment all the way down and let it ride. Minor tractor dips dont affect the floating implement. A nice heavy box blade or rear scraper blade is going to ride along steady with it's current load of material. See my pic in post #68, no dips or bumps whatsoever.

 

[repete]

A initial crown, drainage and a landscape rake. Not a pothole using 5/8" minus.

 

[Egon]

Agreed!
Problem is that some who buy the rear blade are not willing, or able, to train themselves on proper use.
There is a learning curve for using a rear blade.

It's much different than pulling a box blade. As in road work operating a grader is one of the more complex pieces of as there are a myriad of options for the situation at hand. It is probably easier these days with the newer controls with which I'm not familiar!

 

[fried1765]

It's much different than pulling a box blade. As in road work operating a grader is one of the more complex pieces of as there are a myriad of options for the situation at hand. It is probably easier these days with the newer controls with which I'm not familiar!

A good grader operator is an artist!
I hired the Shelburne county grader operator to do some work for me.
I swear....I think he could almost pick a persons teeth with that machine!
He was amazing, but sadly..... died of a heart attack a few years ago.
600 people turned out for his funeral, in a town of only 1500.
He was an exceptionally well liked man!