Does the f250 Super Duty make the f350 obsolete?

[Diamondpilot]

I didn't realize any of the SRW 1-tkns were over 11k now. But my last truck shopping was 05ish models

My 06 F350 SRW was 11,500#. As Far ask know that is still what the Fords are. My neighbor has a 2012 SRW F350 and his is 11,500# also.

Chris

 

[LD1]

I dont need an F350, with an F250 I'd take the downgrade option to 9,900 pounds.

Driving a 350/3500 up here in Ontario means commercial annual safety and paperwork.

A 2500/250 is all I need. That gets me an 8' box and a full crew cab.

Again, all a govt, registration, paperwork thing. There isn't as much difference in the trucks as the govt implies.

My 06 F350 SRW was 11,500#. As Far ask know that is still what the Fords are. My neighbor has a 2012 SRW F350 and his is 11,500# also.

Chris

Not well versed on the fords. But the Chevy's of the 05 ish era I researched were 9000-9200 for a 3/4 ton and 9900 for a SRW 3500. And the drw were 11-12k. And the dodges were similar but a tad higher on the drw trucks. My 05 being 12.2k.

I know some of the new drw trucks are insane with pushing 6-7k payload and 13k+ gvwr's

And it seems a modern 1/2 ton is more capable in both payload and towing than a SRW 350/3500 of the 1990's. But the govt would have you believe otherwise with the cost of tags/insurance. It seems as though jncle Sam aint keeping up with the times.

Again, I understand why so many choose the 250/2500 trucks for title, registration, insurance purposes. But that's really about it, as the srw 350/3500's are (should be) the same class of truck

 

[WilliamBos]

Again, all a govt, registration, paperwork thing. There isn't as much difference in the trucks as the govt implies.



Not well versed on the fords. But the Chevy's of the 05 ish era I researched were 9000-9200 for a 3/4 ton and 9900 for a SRW 3500. And the drw were 11-12k. And the dodges were similar but a tad higher on the drw trucks. My 05 being 12.2k.

I know some of the new drw trucks are insane with pushing 6-7k payload and 13k+ gvwr's

And it seems a modern 1/2 ton is more capable in both payload and towing than a SRW 350/3500 of the 1990's. But the govt would have you believe otherwise with the cost of tags/insurance. It seems as though jncle Sam aint keeping up with the times.

Again, I understand why so many choose the 250/2500 trucks for title, registration, insurance purposes. But that's really about it, as the srw 350/3500's are (should be) the same class of truck

The difference being annual safeties, stopping at the scales vs not. i'll take not.

 

[LD1]

The difference being annual safeties, stopping at the scales vs not. i'll take not.

Semantics. The point remains the same.....the real difference between a 250 and 350 SRW is next to nil. The govt is the one claiming a big difference, and separating them into two classes, whick is why your choice for the 250.

Look back 10 years ago.....or 20 years ago....

Truck ratings keep going up. Govt regs follow with the class of the truck and not what it's actually capable of.

I can cite a few trucks where the SRW 1-ton has less payload, less gvwr, and less towing capabilities than a 3/4 ton. Yet the lesser capable truck, in certain areas, cost more to own, register, insure, and have more "hoops" the driver must jump through.

You could simply make the SRW 1-tons a "higher payload" option for the 3/4 ton. But having two classes for otherwise the same truck is silly IMO

 

[WM75Guy]

The old designations of 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton are not relevant any longer. The better way to compare is the GVWR rating of the vehicle. A Chevrolet 3500HD Crew Cab/Long Box SRW with the 6.0 engine and 4:10 gears has a payload capacity of 4,147#. Same truck with dual rear wheels can carry 6,111#, 1 ton more, yet they would both be called "1 ton" by the old terminology. I believe the manufacturers still use the old designations, for example GM uses 1500, 2500, and 3500, simply for marketing and to compare to other brands, Sierra 1500 = F150 = Ram 1500. Who knows some day we may use the DOT classification. The DOT Class 1-3 are classified as Light Duty.

GVWR
Class 1 0 - 6,000 lbs
Class 2 6,001 -10,000 lbs.
Class 3 10,001 - 14,000 lbs.
Class 4 14,001 - 16,000 lbs.
Class 5 16,001 - 19,500 lbs.
Class 6 19,501 - 26,000 lbs.
Class 7 26,001 - 33,000 lbs.
Class 8 33,001 lbs.+

 

[ultrarunner]

Picked up the new truck tonight... leap day so it will be easy to remember.

Almost 12 weeks start to finish from when the order went in... also picked up an extra $750 Ford rebate that happen to come along.

Was surprised to see the new aluminum body 2017 Super Duty Brochures out... looks like we got the last of the steel cabs with the 2016 and made in Kentucky.

They also had several Raptors plus f450 and f550 in stock... no 700 hp Shelby Pickups.

Our crew cab 4wd has a payload of 3,000 lbs with the 9900 derated GVW which is the lowest... the highest f350 crew 4wd is 4270.

Conventional Bumper towing for our F250 4wd is 14,000 lbs and for 5th-wheel/gooseneck towing is 15,100 lbs

Conventional Bumper towing for F350 crew 4wd is 14,000 lbs and for 5th-wheel/gooseneck towing is 15,700 lbs

Did find the F350 dual crew with duals up to 19,000 bumper and 26,500 for 5th wheel camper package...

Time will tell how well it pulls and handles trailers/loads...

 

[ultrarunner]

PS... seems the State of California has a fee schedule on new super duty pickups based not only on GVR but also towing...

Guess another formerly untapped revenue stream.

 

[JJZ 109]

I looked into the 6.2 until I found out it has 16 spark plugs.

With the way spark plugs last on today's vehicles, how often is that going to come into play? More for some than for others, but I think you're basically talking about every 100k miles.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Picked up the new truck tonight... leap day so it will be easy to remember. Almost 12 weeks start to finish from when the order went in... also picked up an extra $750 Ford rebate that happen to come along. Was surprised to see the new aluminum body 2017 Super Duty Brochures out... looks like we got the last of the steel cabs with the 2016 and made in Kentucky. They also had several Raptors plus f450 and f550 in stock... no 700 hp Shelby Pickups. Our crew cab 4wd has a payload of 3,000 lbs with the 9900 derated GVW which is the lowest... the highest f350 crew 4wd is 4270. Conventional Bumper towing for our F250 4wd is 14,000 lbs and for 5th-wheel/gooseneck towing is 15,100 lbs Conventional Bumper towing for F350 crew 4wd is 14,000 lbs and for 5th-wheel/gooseneck towing is 15,700 lbs Did find the F350 dual crew with duals up to 19,000 bumper and 26,500 for 5th wheel camper package... Time will tell how well it pulls and handles trailers/loads...

I seriously doubt your crew cab F250 diesel truck only weighs 6,900#

I would take it to the scales and weigh it with a driver and say 2/3 tank of fuel then subtract that from the 9,900# GVWR to get your true payload capacity. I think you will find the truck is around 7,500# leaving you only 2,400# of payload which is the big issue with the 3/4 ton trucks of today and the reason why everyone around here goes for the SRW F350.


If pulling a BP trailer you need 10% tongue weight. If the max tow rating is 14,000# that means 1,400# on the tongue. That leaves you only 1,000# for people and cargo in the bed. That may work for some. The real issue is using a 5th wheel or GN. You need 20% on the ball. That's 3,020#, and over your usable capacity. If the truck weighs what I think it does you would be limited to a maximum 5th wheel or GN trailer weight of 12,000#.

So you are actually able to tow more with a BP trailer Thanatos 5th wheel or GN trailer. This is where the extra 1,600# of payload capacity of a F350 SRW truck makes them shine. So much more usable capacity!


Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

Only going off the printed specs from the order sheet...

It was dark last night when we were picking up or I would have taken a couple of pictures.

Truck was also derated to come in under 10k... per the dealer everything is the same had it not been and the GVW is higher than stickered.

I'm curious as to what it weighs... all the local scales are gone... might have to make a dump run.

It will be a learning curve as new equipment always is... the biggest trailer owned is a 12k PJ that is also derated... seems derating is very common in California.

The dump trailer has a 5k payload for the one bought new...

My home made dump trailer has carried this much also... as it was home made by me 35 years ago with a new surplus axle and spring set given me... not really sure of rating... it has 8 lug 16" rims.

Being able to operate and not being subject to freeway weight restrictions and weigh stations plus all the extra requirements/taxes that kick in at 10k is a big consideration...

 

[ultrarunner]

Base curb weight from Dealer is 7106 as configured.... just shooting out his number because it is not from our truck being scaled.

Sent this also...

http://www.ford.com/trucks/superdut...24694&ef_id=Uzrz1gAAAXlZcyUr:20160301150752:s

In looking there is a 10,000 GVW option for the f350 vs the 9900 GVW we have.

 

[mojoinco]

The place to find any engineering details are the manufacturers commercial vehicle web pages. Look for 'uplifters' or 'outfitters'. Or similar. They list all kinds of details, including wiring changes and requirements, where to find pigtails, brakes, frame dimensions, springs, shocks, etc.

I'm not sure that 3/4 versus 1 ton classes are not simply created by manufacturers, excepting those places that have weight categories defined by these terms. Occasionally smog laws may defined these classes, but they will still be categorized by a given GVWR. I recall the 70's and the creation of the 150/1500/15 class of trucks (except IHC, which already made a heavy half ton 1100 series). Kalifornia set the GVWR limit for trucks (versus car level of smog controls) at 6000-6100# (I don't recall the exact number). So each manufacturer added the heavy spring options (a/c, long bed overloads, etc) to create a truck that was just over the limit.


In my past research of 250 v 350 SRW, brakes and springs were overwhelmingly the only obvious physical differences. I'm sure the firmware settings were slightly different for the ABS, etc.

So, unless there are issues like Kalifornia or Ontario exhibit (tax rates) it doesn't make enough difference to not buy a 1 ton. At least if you want a truck that can work well at pulling a load over the long haul. One feature that the 'real' 3/4+ trucks have versus 1/2 ton trucks is the floating rear axle. That is often forgotten in the ratings wars. Occasional pulling of a 7k# trailer is no big deal, nor regular pulling of a 5k# trailer. But above that and one should seriously consider what they are doing long term.

 

[brown40]

When I bought my 350 DRW there was a notable difference not only in the spring package, payload, and towing numbers... the steel used on the 350 frames appeared to be a gauge up from what they used on the 250. Don't know if they're still making them that way, but all things equal, I'd rather have the heavier frame for carrying the loads over the lifetime of the vehicle. If its a primary driver that occasionally works as an under-challenged hauler, the softer suspension, slightly better mileage and lighter curb weight might make sense.
I could have got by with a 250, but I've got nothing that will challenge the 350, and the DRW makes towing feel much more stable. I don't use it much unless towing or plowing, so I went with the most truck for the buck (creature comforts were not a factor).

 

[ultrarunner]

Most of the f series sold at the local dealer are now crew-cabs... I think they had one regular cab on the lot.

Ride can make a difference if 95% of the time it is used for transportation instead of hauling.

Saw the brochure for the 2017 Super Duty with aluminum body... shaves 300 off the weight if I recall.

Picked up a tire leak yesterday... the dash indicator doesn't specify tire... the Honda I drove does.

About the only thing that was mediocre is the steering feedback which is something the 2017 generation is suppose to have addressed.

The owner's manual is over 500 pages... with many pages about the Ford Sync and electronics... the Diesel Supplement is another 100 pages.

DEF is new to me... cautions about having the DEF tank too full in winter as it can freeze and do damage... the rate of usage varies a lot depending on load.

Did not know there are two cooling systems... a 7.5 gallon for the 440 hp motor and a smaller one for other things like the transmission...

This is not my father's ford... it's mr brothers!

Did opt for the $2400 100,000 mile extended warranty... no for the prepaid service contract.

 

[Bookemdanno]

Yup, I used my F350 DRW to plow about 1/8 mile of Highway 72 near Muscle Shoals, Alabama when the Uhaul car dolly (w/car) lost a wheel back to the axle stub. It was a shallow furrow until I noticed it was pulling and got it to plow the side of the road.

Lol :laughing:

 

[ultrarunner]

My one and only f250 picture so far... not the best angle as it was late in the day...

As mentioned the GVWR is derated to 9900

Front Axle is 5600 and Rear Axle is 6100 which totals 11,700 lbs

Tire Size LT275/65R20 Load Range E at 65 psi.

 

[Diamondpilot]

My one and only f250 picture so far... not the best angle as it was late in the day... As mentioned the GVWR is derated to 9900 Front Axle is 5600 and Rear Axle is 6100 which totals 11,700 lbs Tire Size LT275/65R20 Load Range E at 65 psi.

Nice.

Axle ratings are just that, ratings. It may have another weak point.

Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

I was hoping you would reply...

This is my first experience with the Ford derate option to 9900 and the Dealer said the only difference between the derated version and non-derated is the number on the weight sticker.

With the Axle combination at 11,700 and the Michelin Tires set at 15,000 my thinking is there is some wiggle room?

 

[EddieWalker]

Since the sticker price is just too much for me to even consider buying a new F250 or F350, I can only comment on older models. At one time, I had a 97 powerstroke F250 and my brother had a 96 powerstroke F350 with duel rear tires. Both trucks where almost identical except for the rear tires and of course, his had a higher rating for pulling.

I felt the F250 had a slightly better ride to it, but when towing or hauling a yard of gravel, the F350 was night and day better. Ever since then, I've wanted a duel rear tire farm truck for hauling stuff and pulling trailers. This is not a priority for me right now since my 2012 F150 gets the job done. It's more of a wish vehicle that I would love to have one of these days.

 

[ultrarunner]

I hear you...

The truck cost as much as what I paid for my first 3 homes in Oakland California combined!

My brother has owned two trucks in his life... both 4wd f250... his then 3 year old 1978 and this 2016.

The Dealer said the highest compliment is repeat business and referrals... I said we hope to be back in 38 years... which is the model year difference between the 2 f250 trucks and now my nephew has the 96... so maybe 20 years???

His wife was onboard as she was tired of using her Honda van as a ranch truck... thing is my brother won't let anyone with dirty boots in the new truck which hasn't set well with the wife...

440 hp and quiet... only been in it empty and seems ok for ride.

My ideal ranch truck from a practicality standpoint would be a regular or maybe extended cab 1 ton with duals and a stake flatbed.

The shop in San Leandro had one when I worked there... it was a 250ci 6cyl with a 4spd... heater, no radio.

That one ton was indestructible and had enough room under the hood for me to stand... easy to load anything from barrels, pallets to livestock.

The 2016 is a one huge mass under the hood with every square inch packed... 30 quart radiator and 12 quart secondary cooling for the transmission... 13 quart oil capacity and fuel filter change interval of 15k miles.

Plus the 5 gallon DEF tank.