Ford 1500/1700 injector pump
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old1500
Silver Member
Ray....part of what you say could be right and what I just did may prove your point. I cracked it open and about a tea spoon full of dirty oil trickled out...that's it no more than that.
I had a choice to make then and here is why I say you're "partly" right. I put around 5-ounces of fresh oil in, buttoned her up and fired her off. It would never rev above 1,000 rpm.
JC had already said add around 2-ounces and he was right......(way to go there JC). I drained around 1/2 of what I put in out and she rev's right on up now. Too much oil obviously retards the centrifugal weights.....5-ounces is too much. I have measured the level with a soda straw and it's about 1-inch deep in the sump, which strangely enough is about where the fill-level hole would be if it had one.
I had just changed the oil in the machine and only had very little run-time on it so everything in there was still damp with oil. I HAD NOT added any oil to the injector pump and that is likely why it was dry.
Next time I change oil...I will find out if it drains the pump too like some of these other models, but it obviously does.
Hey.....go ahead and say it. I left myself open here. WHY DON'T I JUST BUY A MANUAL!!!!
Actually, the guy I bought it from has one, but has not mailed it to me yet. It was in another location and not at his house the day I picked-up the tractor. I do things the hard way....just like the swing-set on Christmas eve!
I had a choice to make then and here is why I say you're "partly" right. I put around 5-ounces of fresh oil in, buttoned her up and fired her off. It would never rev above 1,000 rpm.
JC had already said add around 2-ounces and he was right......(way to go there JC). I drained around 1/2 of what I put in out and she rev's right on up now. Too much oil obviously retards the centrifugal weights.....5-ounces is too much. I have measured the level with a soda straw and it's about 1-inch deep in the sump, which strangely enough is about where the fill-level hole would be if it had one.
I had just changed the oil in the machine and only had very little run-time on it so everything in there was still damp with oil. I HAD NOT added any oil to the injector pump and that is likely why it was dry.
Next time I change oil...I will find out if it drains the pump too like some of these other models, but it obviously does.
Hey.....go ahead and say it. I left myself open here. WHY DON'T I JUST BUY A MANUAL!!!!
Actually, the guy I bought it from has one, but has not mailed it to me yet. It was in another location and not at his house the day I picked-up the tractor. I do things the hard way....just like the swing-set on Christmas eve!
Texas Blues
Gold Member
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- Sep 22, 2008
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- 339
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- Manvel Texas
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- Massey 1655 Ford 1700 2cyl, Ford 1600 2cyl Massey 135 3cyl gas
We had discussed this topic before, the differences in the pumps between the 1700 owners. Some have drain and fill holes, and some dont. Mine has a drain and fill plug, so its not an issue for me, but I wouldnt rely on the motor supplying oil to the pump. I dont think it does, but it does make you wonder why the plugs are missing. If you had any doubts that it might be low and you didnt want to pull the cover ect, just add a couple ounces through the vent at the top. At least you would know there was oil in it. TB
TB, that would work but I can't believe that the engineers that built such a fine and complicated tractor would have overlooked drain and fill holes unless they have some other method of lubricating the expensive injector pump. I don't think it could be an error in pump construction.
old1500
Silver Member
Yep Texas...I think I have read all of the post on this subject. When you go to the web supported pump diagrams from the parts houses....they all show the drain and fill orifices.
I just believe this 1500 (late 1980 per SN) gets it's oil from the engine supply like some of the other models and a bit has to be added after an oil change to keep things moving until enough is either pumped, dripped or slung in there via some method. Just adding a few ounces each time you change it would overfill it if it was not draining back into the pan some how or otherwise dispersing. I put too much in this one the first time and it would not rev past 1,000. I drained a couple ounces out and it runs fine.
At least I know I have oil in there now and I plan to check the level (via the soda straw) before I make the next oil change and then after I make the change to see if any disappeared. I don't see how it can drain back out of the pump just due to an oil change...seems to me like it would drain back every time you kill the engine since the pump is mounted well above the pan. Nor do I understand why the manual specifies 5-ounces in the 1700 pump and 5-ounces bogged my 1500 pump down. The diagrams always show the same pump with the drain/fill-level holes for both the 1500 and 1700. I have not found a diagram that does not show those plugs.
All I know for sure is that it had sat for a week without being cranked and I did not have enough in there to wet the very bottom tip of the straw. I added some new oil and after running it for a while, I checked it again and it was still fresh-looking and appeared to have not "mixed" with any used engine oil. Maybe it eventually (slowly) drains back every time you kill the engine and takes several minutes of run time to get some oil back in there.
I can tell that the fill plug has been removed several times over the course of this tractors life. Matter-of-fact...somebody has the wrong bolt in the hole. This one is not metric, but has the proper thread to screw in the fill hole and tighten up....but it is really loose fitting until it bottoms...then it will snug-up. The threads appear to be clean, but I really think some jockey stuck the wrong bolt in there for some reason.....maybe stupidity.
I purchased this tractor from an older lady that had given some "mechanic" over $1500 to rebuild the fuel system a little over a year ago. I can't see where she spent $1500 other than a new fuel filter and housing, new rubber lines and a new petcock. Anybody that would bilk an elderly woman would do anything I suppose.
I just believe this 1500 (late 1980 per SN) gets it's oil from the engine supply like some of the other models and a bit has to be added after an oil change to keep things moving until enough is either pumped, dripped or slung in there via some method. Just adding a few ounces each time you change it would overfill it if it was not draining back into the pan some how or otherwise dispersing. I put too much in this one the first time and it would not rev past 1,000. I drained a couple ounces out and it runs fine.
At least I know I have oil in there now and I plan to check the level (via the soda straw) before I make the next oil change and then after I make the change to see if any disappeared. I don't see how it can drain back out of the pump just due to an oil change...seems to me like it would drain back every time you kill the engine since the pump is mounted well above the pan. Nor do I understand why the manual specifies 5-ounces in the 1700 pump and 5-ounces bogged my 1500 pump down. The diagrams always show the same pump with the drain/fill-level holes for both the 1500 and 1700. I have not found a diagram that does not show those plugs.
All I know for sure is that it had sat for a week without being cranked and I did not have enough in there to wet the very bottom tip of the straw. I added some new oil and after running it for a while, I checked it again and it was still fresh-looking and appeared to have not "mixed" with any used engine oil. Maybe it eventually (slowly) drains back every time you kill the engine and takes several minutes of run time to get some oil back in there.
I can tell that the fill plug has been removed several times over the course of this tractors life. Matter-of-fact...somebody has the wrong bolt in the hole. This one is not metric, but has the proper thread to screw in the fill hole and tighten up....but it is really loose fitting until it bottoms...then it will snug-up. The threads appear to be clean, but I really think some jockey stuck the wrong bolt in there for some reason.....maybe stupidity.
I purchased this tractor from an older lady that had given some "mechanic" over $1500 to rebuild the fuel system a little over a year ago. I can't see where she spent $1500 other than a new fuel filter and housing, new rubber lines and a new petcock. Anybody that would bilk an elderly woman would do anything I suppose.
Texas Blues
Gold Member
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- Sep 22, 2008
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- Manvel Texas
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- Massey 1655 Ford 1700 2cyl, Ford 1600 2cyl Massey 135 3cyl gas
My sub par IT manual is conflicted, it says in some places that the 1700 doesnt use the filler and drain plug, and other places tells you how to fill the pump lol. And that the 1710, 1910, 2110, pump uses the engine crankcase oil for lubrication. Its apparent some models crossed the different type pumps. As long as you dont burn it up! TB
For all you guys with drills in your hands that are thinking about drilling and tapping and plugging. I just went to the New Holland parts on line to price a new pump. If you make a mistake drilling a new 1700 injector punp is.......$1579 + shipping. A 1500 pump is slightly cheaper at $1279 :confused2:
old1500
Silver Member
You know TB....I came to the same conclusion some time ago. I have had "experience" with service manuals before and many are conflicted. I have been all over these threads concerning this issue and still have not found a definitive answer on what to do...fer sure.
I most certainly respect and appreciate all the help on this matter and I also know I am not the only one confused. Maybe somebody (retired or possibly deceased by now) at the factory decided it could get lubricated with enough oil or oil vapor being slung off the driven gear....who knows.
I got a little oil in there now and if I don't see it leaking out anywhere......I'll check it again next oil change. What I do know is that this particular little blue monster I have will not run over 1,000 rpm if you put 5 ounces of oil in there.
I'm with you....I plan to let 'er bump!
I most certainly respect and appreciate all the help on this matter and I also know I am not the only one confused. Maybe somebody (retired or possibly deceased by now) at the factory decided it could get lubricated with enough oil or oil vapor being slung off the driven gear....who knows.
I got a little oil in there now and if I don't see it leaking out anywhere......I'll check it again next oil change. What I do know is that this particular little blue monster I have will not run over 1,000 rpm if you put 5 ounces of oil in there.
I'm with you....I plan to let 'er bump!
old1500
Silver Member
Hey Ray....don't worry...I have un-loaded my drill and put my bullets away. I plan to assume that I am one of the lucky guys that has a pump with no holes for some good reason.
jones6780
Gold Member
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- Nov 30, 2008
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- Lizella, Ga.
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- Ford 1700 4wheel drive, Yazoo/Kees Max2 Zero Turn
If you are scared to drill and tap a hole for fill and drain then don't. I would in a heartbeat but I am a toolmaker. The 1700 injector pumps that are missing plugs are, in my opinion, just a machining error when they were manufactured. I have two 1700s and one has plugs and the other dosen't. Without plugs the only proper way to change the oil would be to remove the back cover, drain, replace cover and re-fill with the proper amount of oil. I do not have a Ford owners manual but the IT manual states to change every 200 hours with the same type oil as the engine. I may go ahead and change mine just to verify the correct quantity of oil to re-fill with.
Russell
Russell
