GENERATOR BUYING

[David_Kb7uns]

Got a Generac 5875 which is the Home Depot version with the Nexus switch, had it hooked up in October. First month had 14 hours of use.

The whole house switch is nice but you need to know what you are doing and get electrician to do transfer switch install. Needs 3/4 inch LP pipe if over a few feet from regulator bigger pipe if longer distance. Do need the 500Gal tank though. If in colder climates the engine/battery warmer and multi viscocity oil are needed.

No problems so far but some earlier versions have had issues with early boards. Did run 5 wires for control circuits and sense/charging. Install schematics were not up to date all the way. If you have more questions let me know. Longest time without power instead of hours is less than 40 seconds now!!

David Kb7uns

 

[bradm64]

We have a buried 1000 gallon propane tank for the generator and propane for the back up LP gas heat to the house. Buring the tank gets it out of sight, and they will fill them to 85% here, as opposed to only 80% for above ground. The underground tank cost a few extra bucks to purchase, and I had a couple hours of backhoe time to dig the hole to bury it.

With that size tank, I can generally buy propane in summer when price comes down, and not have to buy through winter at higher prices. A long power outage (several days) would change that.

 

[tornadowatchranch]

I bought a generac 15k portable to use and have good luck. My real addition to the discussion is that the best prices I found were from norwall power systems. The tech folk were great on the phone helping me to size it and it arrived promptly. It was truck shipped at the time (free) but I had to use the pallet forks and be home to get the free shipping.

Generac Guardian 5875 - 20kW Standby Generator (Aluminum) Pre-Packaged w/200 Amp Service Rated Automatic Transfer Switch

 

[Monster5601]

I have a 14 KW Generac installed at my home and I have absolutely no complaints at all. It has been reliable and always there when we lose the grid which is often. The system delays for 30 seconds before starting and once the grid returns waits to see if the grid remains stable until shutting down.

I had a local electrical company who is an authorized Generac dealer do an electrical budget for my home. It turned out that the 14 KW was a logical choice because it would supply the power we need (air conditioning/electric cooking) without straining the natural gas supply allowing us to heat, dry clothes and run the Generac concurrently. The 14 KW was also at a price breakpoint. When using natural gas as a fuel supply, the 14 KW model can only put out 13KW due to less BTUs in the fuel source.

I also went with the Generac automatic transfer switch and had the same company install the system. When the grid goes out, during the middle of the night and during a blizzard, I don't know it and my warming blanket stays warm.

I would suggest you locate an authorized Generac installer to do a power budget for your home, most people over size because they think they need more power than what they really need. 13 KW can run the air conditioning, electric stove or electric oven, TV's, and other household items. When our power goes out, it usually lasts for several days to a week or more and I've never experienced an overload, yet.

My total cost was $6,800.00 which included the full install, landscaping around the generator, rewiring from the outside mains to the inside panel (bring it up to code) and adding a sub-panel in my garage with 220 volt 60/30 amp circuits for the welder and air compressor.

 

[Darren]

If you're in a situation where you may use the generator a lot or if you want a unit that can be used as a prime source of power as well as a standby unit, I'd look at the Hawkpower units that use the Lister Petter diesels converted to run on natural gas or propane. A Lister Petter diesel will easily go 30,000 hours and usually much more before needing rebuilt. Those are low speed, 1800, rpm machines so that contributes to their longevity. You could run one for weeks or longer if you had to if the grid was down.

The only drawback is that since they've converted the Kansas factory to a warehouse, the units, if not in stock, have to be imported from the UK.

 

[Gator6x4]

Heats pumps use a lot of wattage. I would consider the 25 KW Generac. I haven't priced one they are also supposed to have water cooled engines. I think the temperature cut in for the heat strips in a heat pump is 41 degrees. Friends who have heat pumps tell me when the heat strips kick in or activate, a lot of current is used. Above 40 degrees if the activation for the heat strips is 41 degrees a 20KW would probably work just fine. A local weather service can probably provide the number of below 41 degree days you can anticipate in your area. A too small generator could damage heat pumps and other refrigerated equipment.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

When we were pricing the Generac units they were running sales last summer in the $4200 range delivered for the 20KW with the Nexus switch. The 20Kw is the largest air cooled unit that Generac makes. To step up in to the 22KW-27KW range it was going to cost around $7K plus add in another $1500 for the transfer switch. I could of almost have got two of the 20KW units for the price of the water cooled units just slightly larger and I would of had a second unit dedicated just for the heat pumps.

The 20KW has the ability to start up to a 5ton heat pump as long as you do not have another major load going at the same time. Since we heat with wood or pellets we do not need aux heat most of the time if we are home. If we are gone then there will probably not have another load going such as a well, stove or oven going and the extra capacity could go the the heating system to keep things from freezing.

For the small incremental price they have on the 20KW vs the smaller units most people will have the extra capacity if neede unless you have a giant house.

With the hour ratings on the OVHI engines being in the couple thousand hour range and the exercise is 12 minutes per week it will take a long time for the average standby operation to wear the engine out.

David Kb7uns

 

[bigbull338]

we went to lowes the other day to get something,an we glanced at the generator that they had there.so we talked to a guy about it.an he said they would send some1 out to look at the house to see what size we needed.he said he thought for a 3000sf house that a 25kw would pull it.an i said no more like a 40kw,because a 25kw pto gen wouldnt even pull our milk barn.he said that he thought it would cost use $16000 or more installed.

 

[eepete]

One thing I've not seen mentioned here yet that I did was to put a breaker panel box before the transfer switch. That let met take the resistive electric backup-up heaters for the heat pumps and put them before the transfer switch. This can let you get away with a smaller generator. There may be other loads you can live without that can go to the panel before the xfer switch.

You'll have to look at costs and see what is cheaper- more generator watts or the cost of the electrical re-work. If you're set on air cooled (and therefore the 20KW unit), this approach can help make that work for you.

Pete

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have been looking at the specs for the 20KW Kohler genset and it claims a surge capacity of over 40KvA. Generac doesnt list surge capacity for its unit. Kohler offer 5 year warranty also vs 3 year for Generac. It is $360 more plus you have to buy a starting battery if I am reading the specs correctly so about $400 more but I think it may be worth it for the extra 2 years warranty. I dont know about the Kohler Command Pro motor, seem like one of the Kohler motors used in lawnmowers has some problems with the head warping on them. I dont remember if it was Vanguard or Command Pro. Someone here with better memory than me should be able to chime in.
I think Lowes can give me the better pricing since they offer 10% discount for Veteran withe $4589 base (generac model 5896) minus the discount = 4130 vs best price found for a model 5875 was $4405. I think the difference in model numbers is in the furnished transfer switch but I cant verify that as they dont give the xfer switch model number in most sites.
Someone jump in with info on the Kohler generators that are $4949. Are they worth the extra money. Lifespan any more? Cant find any reference to the expected life of the engines. Kohler claims they are rated best choice by several consumer ratings and Green guides.

 

[hr3]

Gary,, Read over the fine print on the Kohler's I think you will find that the 5 year is an extended warranted that you have to buy,, and other than there normal 1 year you have to have a signed service contract with an authorized dealer to get more.. Not 100% on this but you might check,, Also the surge your right the Generac only has 35,470.. but with the Nexus system it not a problem,,

Here is a good link to look at,, Generac Guardian 5875 20 kw Generator, 20 kW Emergency Power System w/ Aluminum Enclosure

We install both brands but Generac is 98% of the business..

 

[jake98]

I heard Kohler got into the generator business because they wanted to sell plumbing fixtures where there was no power to pump the water. Just a little $.02 not sure if it's true..

 

[kenmac]

If you have the xtra $ . Go for the 25 kw water cooled. Years ago (when I installed generac's ) Generac didn't recommend connecting A/C to their air cooled engine generators ( I have no idea if that's still an issue).Some installers ( back then ) wouldn't tell their customers that.

 

[dwost]

I had an 8kw Generic installed at our office and it's worked flawlessly for the past 2 years. Only time will tell but it's not had one issue. We run it off 2 , 100lb tanks. It powers our server room, kitchen and a couple banks of lights. As mentioned for a whole house where you will include at least one furnace minimum I'd go would be 27kw. I'm in the process of installing one in a new build for my inlaws house. It will cover one of their geothermal units, lights, and all the necessities. I'm going with another Generac.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Good info guys. I will check on the Kohler warranty for sure before buying, but that sounds like a good lawsuit in the making if they advertise a 5 year warranty but you have to pay extra for it and a service plan to get it.
As for size, 20KW is about the limit that I am willing to go. They are in the 4500-5K range but to step up to even a 22K requires a water cooled unit and they start at nearly $10,000. I could buy 2 of the 20kw for what one water cooled unit cost and the fuel consumption is much higher on those even at 1/2 load they but nearly as much as the 20 Kw under full load.
I have checked with some very knowledgeable electricians and am assured that even a 17 kw will run everything in my house with minimal power management which is why I stepped up to a 20Kw as the price is not much more and gives me the little extra boost without much more $$ or fuel cost.
My biggest drain is the 5 ton heat pump which actually runs very little of the time since my house is well insulated. The only other big amp drawer is the stove or oven which I would have to limit the use of those but I think I could run the oven and range at the same time if I dont use the HVAC unit. The only other big amp draw is the water heater. Most of my lights in the house are LED and pull 7 watts and I could turn all 19 on for only 133 watts of power usage. So basically as long as I only run only one of the large amp drawers at a time, the 20kw should be up to the task to run everything else in the house along with that one.

 

[grsthegreat]

the reason i switched my cooktop, waterheaters and back-up heat to GAS was to be able to downsize my generator.

I power my entire house on a 10KW unit. all lights, water heater, cooktop (ignitor), heater (fans), microwave, etc.

just the savings in the cost of the generator paid for all the upgrades to my system. Also, the wife likes the gas dryer and cooktop better than the electric. With 2 gas waterheaters, we NEVER run out of hot water.

I caqnt use the air conditioning function of the heat pump...but i dont need to during a power outage. the outages here in north idaho usually happen during storms and severe snowstorms. who needs a/c

 

[jenkinsph]

the reason i switched my cooktop, waterheaters and back-up heat to GAS was to be able to downsize my generator.

I power my entire house on a 10KW unit. all lights, water heater, cooktop (ignitor), heater (fans), microwave, etc.

just the savings in the cost of the generator paid for all the upgrades to my system. Also, the wife likes the gas dryer and cooktop better than the electric. With 2 gas waterheaters, we NEVER run out of hot water.

I caqnt use the air conditioning function of the heat pump...but i dont need to during a power outage. the outages here in north idaho usually happen during storms and severe snowstorms. who needs a/c

That is how I look at it too. I don't see the need to run a 20kw genset for power outages, I get by with alot less.

A typical set of heat strips in an electric furnace will need 19.8kw, a standard electric water heater (40 gallon) is 4.5kw, add a few smaller appliances and lights to this and you are past 30kw. Removing the two heating loads of 24.3kw can make a huge difference in what is needed. The amount of fuel needed could be conserved too, lessening the chance of running out in the middle of a long power outage.

 

[Gary Fowler]

If I had natural gas access, I would have put in some gas appliances, but to fuel with propane at almost $3 per gallon in summer, I dont think the cost would work out. Wife doesnt like gas stove or oven and that is the biggest energy burner. Most of our power outages occur in spring with the severe weather and tornados. Occassionally we get an ice storm but that is rare. I dont believe my unit will pull anywhere near 19Kw. That would be 88 amps and it only has a 50 amp breaker so I would think it would be normally around 40 amps. I will have to look at the tag when I get home to be sure.

I have been assured that this unit will run my 5 ton HVAC system, but to be on the safe side, I have a Generac distributor coming out tomorrow to assess the situation.

 

[Elviscaretaker]

Most of our power outages occur in spring with the severe weather and tornados.

Makes me feel glad I live in the great North Wet

 

[Gary Fowler]

My brother in law and I both have ordered above ground tornado shelters for our homes. He is getting pretty antsy for it to get installed what with all the tornados hitting all around us the last few days. That is one piece of equipment that I hope never gets used.