Heating Budget

[3930dave]

I saw a pretty slick P&M boiler that burned green chips, the stuff the loggers make for biomass or pulp. It had a storage bin and auger (think grain bin) that fed the boiler. It's not as "domesticated" as 50# bags of pellets and it would seem to require a loader and a chip storage shed, but possibly only a weekly filling of the bin .
Maybe they have it figured out, but I'm pretty certain that a bunch of heat energy is lost pushing the water out of the green chips before it burns.
P&M has been at it a while and it looks like good stuff.

The trick is the moisture, but they are one of the companies I wouldn't be surprised if they pull that off.

That scale is what I was referring to as older "slick Euro" ones.... on any modern commercial farm, that's a relatively minor equipment expenditure, so will well suit some operations....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

Since dead people started to vote, the price of cold went down. Also you can burn all those extra mail-in votes if you need heat. Mail carrier brought us over 20 apiece last year. Called "Sample Ballots", they all apparently worked just fine.

LOL..... remember the log-rollers ?

One of the older energy crises, there was a guy who went out of his way to get on ALL the junk-mail lists he could discover. Said "Not only is this stuff free, but they deliver too !".

Rgds, D.

 

[Jstpssng]

I saw a pretty slick P&M boiler that burned green chips, the stuff the loggers make for biomass or pulp. It had a storage bin and auger (think grain bin) that fed the boiler. It's not as "domesticated" as 50# bags of pellets and it would seem to require a loader and a chip storage shed, but possibly only a weekly filling of the bin .
Maybe they have it figured out, but I'm pretty certain that a bunch of heat energy is lost pushing the water out of the green chips before it burns.
P&M has been at it a while and it looks like good stuff.

I saw one at a trade show a few years ago but it was geared more toward commercial applications. It's pretty simple to dry your wood before chipping it, just pile it down and let it set for a year. I always thought it would be a good way to get rid of the tops and smaller wood that I make when doing some thinning, as well as the softwood tops which we can't sell for pulp anymore.

 

[JasperFrank]

Since seeing one in the midwest many years ago, I've always been fascinated by corn feed pellet stoves. If wood stoves are banned, this seems to be the way to go, depending on the area you live. Corn is a grass. And as such is also a bio-fuel. Yet, it is no longer a "wood stove."

 

[LouNY]

Many of the indoor corn stoves would "leak" a bit of flue gas out of the combustion chamber,
they were popular around here for a few years. Seems like everyone that had one has pulled them
out by now and they all complained that some of the house walls got a greasy film on them.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Estimates for coming increases, USA. Regions will vary, but as this is a global situation, I'm planning for a more expensive Winter....

US heating bills set to surge as energy costs jump

Rgds, D.

In 1990 propane or electric was our only option when we took out the flue. We went all electric but then propane was cheaper.

10 years ago the church moved to propane and built a high ceiling 40x60 foot activity center. Things were tight pre Covid-19. Propane cost may turn out the lights. The community died hard but people keep driving back due to family members but now they have pasted.

Time changes all things.

 

[PILOON]

Living in Quebec electric heating is the way to go.
However, couple years ago they installed 'smart meters' (and had special fee to do that) claiming it would save a lot by eliminating meter readers.
Recently they signed a major deal to sell power to Maine and or Vermont.
Problem with that is there are clauses to cover minimum mega watts delivered so as a result we will be regulated as to how much and when we can consume locally.
What folks did not understand is with 'smart meters' they can modify the fees upwards during peak hours much like commercial demand meters.
AS a result local users will have to sacrifice so that our hydro can deliver what they contracted to do.
Result is that we'll pay more during peak usage hours or learn to cook, do laundry etc during off peak hours.

 

[Rustyiron]

That's interesting, part of the sales "pitch" here in Maine is that it is not exactly excess electricity that the New England grid will get but it's water that flows over the hydro dams without going through the turbines. So effectively excess.
This "citizen referendum" process here (to approve the construction of the line through ME to MA) is and has been corrupted for years by outside money and lying commercials. The majority of the line is along an existing power line "corridor" and a short 50 some miles is new. ALL of it is existing commercial Woodlands that has been harvested for years.
It's ironic that the idiot's in charge here are and have been taking out many of the smaller hydro dams that have existed for decades in a back door attempt to bolster the highly subsidized (like 15x the amount of oil) wind and solar.
Just yesterday I saw what had to be 100ac if the sun is out solar "farm" under construction, that the last time I drove by, it was heavily wooded with beautiful oaks! Makes perfect sense right?
I'm all for this hydro power from Canada, the way "there" closing nukes and coal/ nat gas plants and at the same time pushing this electric car BS, our grid needs a reliable additional electricity. Your silly virtue signaling plug in car may be fine..... in suburbia, but there's very little of that here in Maine.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I saw a pretty slick P&M boiler that burned green chips, the stuff the loggers make for biomass or pulp. It had a storage bin and auger (think grain bin) that fed the boiler. It's not as "domesticated" as 50# bags of pellets and it would seem to require a loader and a chip storage shed, but possibly only a weekly filling of the bin .
Maybe they have it figured out, but I'm pretty certain that a bunch of heat energy is lost pushing the water out of the green chips before it burns.
P&M has been at it a while and it looks like good stuff.

The local mill uses waste heat from the steam turbines to dry the chips. Waste heat also runs the chipboard press, the resin still, the lumber kilns, and the pellet presses. The only waste from the mill is bark dust and ash.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Many of the indoor corn stoves would "leak" a bit of flue gas out of the combustion chamber,
they were popular around here for a few years. Seems like everyone that had one has pulled them
out by now and they all complained that some of the house walls got a greasy film on them.

Corn stoves were popular back when low quality corn was 25 cents a bushel. Now that a 50 lb. sack of corn will cost you $12 ($480/ton), pellets are cheaper.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Biosolar is cheaper if you can grow your own. Post a notice at your local Mexican grocery store.

"Necesito un trabajador para cortar leña. Pago en efectivo, horario flexible. Teléfono (xxx)xxx-xxx)"

If you are lucky, you can hire his wife to clean the house.

 

[Doughknob]

OP your subject sounds funny - Heating Budget. What happens when the budget runs out? You freeze? LOL

 

[3930dave]

Since seeing one in the midwest many years ago, I've always been fascinated by corn feed pellet stoves. If wood stoves are banned, this seems to be the way to go, depending on the area you live. Corn is a grass. And as such is also a bio-fuel. Yet, it is no longer a "wood stove."

I remember seeing one in a rural restaurant years back; it was throwing out great heat.

Back when corn stoves had been out for a bit, I was having a chat with a stove dealer. His point (re. staying away from corn, business-wise) was that the capital required (at least at that time) to pelletize wood was fairly high - so nobody just dabbled in doing wood pellets.

Corn - he said he could see somebody cobbling together some sort of corn-dryer on a farm, and selling low cost corn fuel.... get the moisture wrong, and the stove-dealer gets stuck explaining to a customer why they have corn-syrup lined chimneys.

I don't know enough about combusting corn to know exactly how critical the moisture is, but I understood his reasoning.....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

AS a result local users will have to sacrifice so that our hydro can deliver what they contracted to do.

The first person I knew years ago to personally own a good sized generator at home was a friend's family who had a large vacation home near Aylmer PQ.

They had that one in the 70's, because Hydro Quebec was doing the same thing back then; blacking out Quebec customers in the dead of Winter, to avoid lawsuits from the USA States being supplied.

I'm generally not interested in all-electric heat, but I can't imagine relying on it, under the above conditions.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

It's ironic that the idiot's in charge here are and have been taking out many of the smaller hydro dams that have existed for decades in a back door attempt to bolster the highly subsidized (like 15x the amount of oil) wind and solar.
Just yesterday I saw what had to be 100ac if the sun is out solar "farm" under construction, that the last time I drove by, it was heavily wooded with beautiful oaks!

It does seem like the Inmates running the Asylum, too often.....

While I like to see a diversity of energy sources in play, I take serious issue with removing hydro resources. Throwing away that scale of resource is not wise at any time, but esp. not where we are supposedly going....

As a private citizen, cutting down one twig in many areas can be a big expensive hassle..... 100ac of oaks in the name of Solar, No Problem !

No Respect, I tell Ya ! ..... now gotta straighten my tie.....

Rgds, D.

 

[lman]

13,000 acres of farm ground going out of commission.

Work starting on 13,000-acre solar farm in northern Indiana

An Israeli company has started work to build a solar energy farm that’s planned to cover some 13,000 acres (5,261 hectares) across two northern Indiana counties when completed.

www.tribstar.com

 

[3930dave]

OP your subject sounds funny - Heating Budget. What happens when the budget runs out? You freeze? LOL

For the top third or so of the financial stratum, it's a Don't Care.

Given how food, transportation/fuel, and housing costs have rocketed, having energy spike is one more unwelcome "challenge" further down the bonepile....

Most of us who hang out here likely aren't at risk of freezing this Winter, but there are other people who will be having to make some hard decisions about where to cut their personal budgets......

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

In 1990 propane or electric was our only option when we took out the flue. We went all electric but then propane was cheaper.

10 years ago the church moved to propane and built a high ceiling 40x60 foot activity center. Things were tight pre Covid-19. Propane cost may turn out the lights. The community died hard but people keep driving back due to family members but now they have pasted.

Time changes all things.

Churches are notoriously difficult to heat.

I'm thinking of one particular church in a small town I pass through on the way to visit family...... very steep roof, that happens to have a good SW orientation, so they filled the roof with solar pv panels.

I'd guess they were likely grid-tied there, but have always liked the Diversion style regulators for pv/battery systems. Surplus power (once batteries are full) is diverted to heat hot water - domestic or heating, user's choice.....

Rgds, D.

 

[jyoutz]

Surprised that it's been held back this long. 2008 should have seen a huge blowout but the banksters pulled another rabbit out of the hat. No more tricks left.

Funny that this is article is from the BBC. Europe is going to be slammed a lot harder.

Recently filled our propane tank after ensuring that the prices had gone up high enough. Only used for cooking and clothes dryer. Fill it every 3 or 4 years.

Increasing reliance on electricity will one day prove problematic. Well, it already was problematic for folks in Texas this past year. Expect more such to occur.

Texas also had natural gas shortages due to shallow uninsulated pipelines freezing where they entered the power plants.

 

[jyoutz]

No natural gas, only propane available where I live. Here's the headline from Bloomberg news:
View attachment 717251

I was in that situation for years. My solution: wood pellet stove for heating, propane for water heater and kitchen stove.